Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[steven100]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Although I am no supporter of the USA I find opinion totally unfair.

Well whatever we think doesn't really stop the shelling and explosions,   lets hope both sides can come to the table and reach some sort of a cease fire agreement.

 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I get all that. But, does targeting civilian apartment blocks by air and missile attack, accomplish any of Putin's military objectives? Or is that the objective? Simply raining down terror? 

From the same appartmenst civilians live, they also expect being targeted from, and most likely, thay have been targeted and had losses. We will most likely not read about those attacks in our western media from civilian apartment blocks. 
 

This is war, 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

My point is, we are all taken for a ride on this war, and our emotions will be used for what it is worth, and even more since this is in our backyard.

 

I hope the president pull out now, regroup, and let things settle a bit, and then solve this with sanctions and politically. It will save many lives.

 

You keep pushing this garbage that the Ukrainians should surrender in order to save lives while ignoring the real cause of civilian deaths. It is not Ukrainian intransigence, it is Russian aggression and war crimes. The Russian incursions in the Ukraine are the first invasions of a sovereign country in Europe since WW11. Just stop it. There is one side clearly on the wrong side of history here and it isn't Ukraine.

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I get all that. But, does targeting civilian apartment blocks by air and missile attack, accomplish any of Putin's military objectives? Or is that the objective? Simply raining down terror? 

None of what you say can be verified as what has really happened, who knows what Putin wants other than to put a Russian friendly gov in Ukraine by any means possible.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

From the same appartmenst civilians live, they also expect being targeted from, and most likely, thay have been targeted and had losses. We will most likely not read about those attacks in our western media from civilian apartment blocks. 
 

This is war, 

This is lies. Show any credible report that attacks were made against Russians from these blocks. They were attacked from afar by Russian artillery.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

None of what you say can be verified as what has really happened, who knows what Putin wants other than to put a Russian friendly gov in Ukraine by any means possible.

Which is a war crime.

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There is one side clearly on the wrong side of history here and it isn't Ukraine.

All or most people know that, so how do you propose Ukraine continue until everyone there is dead. 

[friendofthai]

24 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

An interview with Peter Hitches on LBC was pointing out just that referring to past history and how different things could have been in the world today if the attitude and treatment of Russia by the west had been friendly.

There is a simple reason why the attitude and treatment of Russia by the west is similar to that of Lybia or Iraq. The US does not believe that Russia can use its nuclear weapons because kids of Russian elite are in the US universities. So, a clear demonstration is absolutely needed in this case. In the state duma of Russia it was suggested by the colonel E. Fedorov that bombing the Nevada test site (with ZERO victims) would be the best demonstration. But the main problem is that the Russian society is not angry enough to approve this decision. To make the Russian society hate the US to the necessary degree, the Ukrainian campaign is absolutely needed. Almost every single day Mr. Lavrov explains to Russian people that Ukraine is remotely ruled by the US. About 2-3 months later every family in Russia will have war victims and Mr. Lavrov will keep explaining who is the reason. Putin thinks that the Russian society will then be angry enough for the hard collision with the West.

[Hummin]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You keep pushing this garbage that the Ukrainians should surrender in order to save lives while ignoring the real cause of civilian deaths. It is not Ukrainian intransigence, it is Russian aggression and war crimes. The Russian incursions in the Ukraine are the first invasions of a sovereign country in Europe since WW11. Just stop it. There is one side clearly on the wrong side of history here and it isn't Ukraine.

Im thinking about kids, women, elderly and animals. Men should stand up and fight and bring the war out from the cities, hiding among children, women,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it is as bad as it is.  I aggree, giving up sounds bad, but, well we have experience for how many thousands of year with war? What have we learned? 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

All or most people know that, so how do you propose Ukraine continue until everyone there is dead. 

why not advocate that Russia surrenders instead?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Im thinking about kids, women, elderly and animals. Men should stand up and fight and bring the war out from the cities, hiding among children, women,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it is as bad as it is.  Ut I aggree, giving up sounds bad, but, well we have experience for how many thousands of year with war? What have we learned? 

why not advocate that Russia surrenders instead?

[coolcarer]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

So you can't see that if Ukraine were to surrender it would be the easiest way to save lives OK. 

 

Putin wish is not how I see it,  it's how he see's it what a strange thing to say. 

 

That's right I said you see it differently the only way this invasion is ganna stop is for Putin to be taken out or order out his forces. 

 

You would have to be blind not to see that, if one side puts down its weapons the war will stop and lives would be saved. The question however is that you constantly say that Ukraine should be doing this.

 

Ukraine if they wanted to would do this, they could have done it at any point in this invasion. They know the overwhelming odds but they have chosen to fight. Why? because they did not start this. Russia lied and carried out an unprovoked attack in their country.

 

They are standing up for freedom from a dictator and his army. Your constant reference to stopping the loss of life is for Ukraine to stop fighting is immoral and without regard for their own rights. Exactly as Putin see’s it. So yes my reference you seeing it the same way as the midget stands.

 

The way for this to stop is Putin to stop as required by international law and the recent UN General Assembly directive.

 

Will this stop him? No but then Ukraine will carry on and not stop either and they have the right to do that until they see fit to stop. Putin has no rights in this, he should stop with no conditions right now, he has killed enough civilians and caused a mass humanitarian crisis as we speak.

 

 

[Hummin]

Just now, ozimoron said:

why not advocate that Russia surrenders instead?

I really do not believe Putin is giving up Ukraine, he have everything to loose if he give up. 
 

As said many times, it more of a reflection of what is happening, not who I side with. Im a Norwegian, and feel for Ukraine, and Putin must be stopped, but continue fighting in urban cities? I do not believe that is the solution. Thats not how Taliban won the war? 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

There is a simple reason why the attitude and treatment of Russia by the west is similar to that of Lybia or Iraq. The US does not believe that Russia can use its nuclear weapons because kids of Russian elite are in the US universities. So, a clear demonstration is absolutely needed in this case. In the state duma of Russia it was suggested by the colonel E. Fedorov that bombing the Nevada test site (with ZERO victims) would be the best demonstration. But the main problem is that the Russian society is not angry enough to approve this decision. To make the Russian society hate the US to the necessary degree, the Ukrainian campaign is absolutely needed. Almost every single day Mr. Lavrov explains to Russian people that Ukraine is remotely ruled by the US. About 2-3 months later every family in Russia will have war victims and Mr. Lavrov will keep explaining who is the reason. Putin thinks that the Russian society will then be angry enough for the hard collision with the West.

Sounds like they are seeding the public in Russia to a nuclear attack then

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I really do not believe Putin is giving up Ukraine, he have everything to loose if he give up. 
 

As said many times, it more of a reflection of what is happening, not who I side with. Im a Norwegian, and feel for Ukraine, and Putin must be stopped, but continue fighting in urban cities? I do not believe that is the solution. Thats not how Taliban won the war? 

And The Ukraine doesn't have everything to lose if they give up? Stop shilling for Russia.

[Bkk Brian]

Breaking. This report however is not for those that don't trust the BBC....lol

 

Russia announces temporary ceasefire in two besieged cities

 

Ukraine confirms temporary ceasefire in two cities

We first heard about the temporary ceasefire and humanitarian corridors in two south-eastern Ukrainian cities from the Russian defence ministry - which said it had been agreed with the Ukrainian side.

Now we have official Ukrainian confirmation from the head of the Donetsk region military administration, Pavlo Kirilenko.

He confirms the temporary ceasefire from 09:00 local time (07:00 GMT), and says that his administration is currently working on the details of the evacuation.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60532634

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Breaking. This report however is not for those that don't trust the BBC....lol

 

Russia announces temporary ceasefire in two besieged cities

 

Ukraine confirms temporary ceasefire in two cities

We first heard about the temporary ceasefire and humanitarian corridors in two south-eastern Ukrainian cities from the Russian defence ministry - which said it had been agreed with the Ukrainian side.

Now we have official Ukrainian confirmation from the head of the Donetsk region military administration, Pavlo Kirilenko.

He confirms the temporary ceasefire from 09:00 local time (07:00 GMT), and says that his administration is currently working on the details of the evacuation.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60532634

Means they plan to level the towns by indiscriminate artillery and missile attack to clear out military defenses. Army offenses have not achieved their objective.

[Virt]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

The problem as I see it is your posts are all western reports. 

 

I think the resent outburst by the Ukrainian Presendent is an indication of what's really going on. 

Seen from a communicating perspective the Ukrainian president is doing a great job.

 

He seems honest, shows feelings and emotions and he stands by the side of his fellow Ukrainians and are not fleeing the scene.

He touches the feelings in any sane person.

 

Putin on the other hand seems like a catastrophy.

Ridiculing his own ministers on national TV, denying it's a war, saying Russia are not bombing Kyiv etc.

 

Before this is over Putin could find himself removed from his post as president or lying in a pool of blood.

Could...

 

I hope the Intel is correct, and that the Russian FSB were actually the ones leaking the Intel to Ukraine about mercenaries trying to kill the Ukrainian president.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-survives-three-assassination-attempts-in-days-xnstdfdfc

 

If so Putin are having huge internal issues and those could lead to his demise.

 

The best outcome would be if the Russians removed him, before he does anything more crazy.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

And The Ukraine doesn't have everything to lose if they give up? Stop shilling for Russia.

You can continue to pick point like you do, but it doesnt change the reality for those people who experience war! 
 

And you have to make it personal like im “shilling” for Russia and Putin. No shame huh? 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Means they plan to level the towns by indiscriminate artillery and missile attack to clear out military defenses. Army offenses have not achieved their objective.

So this is a problem for you to now? Get the civilian out? 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Hummin said:

You can continue to pick point like you do, but it doesnt change the reality for those people who experience war! 
 

And you have to make it personal like im “shilling” for Russia and Putin. No shame huh? 

I should be ashamed of my posts now? Your victim blaming is disgusting.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Hummin said:

So this is a problem for you to now? Get the civilian out? 

Never said it was a problem did I? I simply explained what I considered to be Russia's tactics.

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I should be ashamed of my posts now? Your victim blaming is disgusting.

When no common sense seems to be reached against someone sitting safe in another country than where the war is going on. I give up, especially when the arguments ends up on a level like this. 

[Kwasaki]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

why not advocate that Russia surrenders instead?

Well seeing that most here think I support Putin I'll give him a call and ask him to retreat please

 

15 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

You would have to be blind not to see that, if one side puts down its weapons the war will stop and lives would be saved. The question however is that you constantly say that Ukraine should be doing this.

 

Ukraine if they wanted to would do this, they could have done it at any point in this invasion. They know the overwhelming odds but they have chosen to fight. Why? because they did not start this. Russia lied and carried out an unprovoked attack in their country.

 

They are standing up for freedom from a dictator and his army. Your constant reference to stopping the loss of life is for Ukraine to stop fighting is immoral and without regard for their own rights. Exactly as Putin see’s it. So yes my reference you seeing it the same way as the midget stands.

 

The way for this to stop is Putin to stop as required by international law and the recent UN General Assembly directive.

 

Will this stop him? No but then Ukraine will carry on and not stop either and they have the right to do that until they see fit to stop. Putin has no rights in this, he should stop with no conditions right now, he has killed enough civilians and caused a mass humanitarian crisis as we speak.

I can see where your coming from like many posters here but your suggestions are futile.

OK then so you tell Russia to stop then.  

[ozimoron]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Well seeing that most here think I support Putin I'll give him a call and ask him to retreat please

 

I can see where your coming from like many posters here but your suggestions are futile.

OK then so you tell Russia to stop then.  

Did you already call the Ukrainian president and ask him to surrender?

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

So this is a problem for you to now? Get the civilian out? 

What if they don't want to leave their homes?

 

Incredible footage purportedly from Kherson showing local civilians very literally putting their bodies in the path of occupying Russian forces. Even at oncoming trucks and gunfire (into the air, it seems), they do not budge.

 

Looks like the whole of Novopskov in eastern Ukraine has come out to tell the bedraggled Russian soldiers occupying the town what its residents think: “War and death follows you wherever you go, get up and leave!” Crowd chanting “Ukraine!”

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What if they don't want to leave their homes?

 

Incredible footage purportedly from Kherson showing local civilians very literally putting their bodies in the path of occupying Russian forces. Even at oncoming trucks and gunfire (into the air, it seems), they do not budge.

 

Looks like the whole of Novopskov in eastern Ukraine has come out to tell the bedraggled Russian soldiers occupying the town what its residents think: “War and death follows you wherever you go, get up and leave!” Crowd chanting “Ukraine!”

Time will show how this turns out, I hope Im wrong when I believe Russia will take over for any price, and as most analytics have said, the worst is to come. 
 

We can hope the chease fire now can be a start on a witdrawel from Ukraine by Russians,  but I doubt. We can hope

 

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Hummin said:

Time will show how this turns out, I hope Im wrong when I believe Russia will take over for any price, and as most analytics have said, the worst is to come. 
 

We can hope the chease fire now can beca start on a witdrawel from Ukraine by Russians,  but I doubt. We can hope

 

 

Those advocating that Ukraine surrenders are only helping Russia.

[nauseus]

33 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

There is a simple reason why the attitude and treatment of Russia by the west is similar to that of Lybia or Iraq. The US does not believe that Russia can use its nuclear weapons because kids of Russian elite are in the US universities. So, a clear demonstration is absolutely needed in this case. In the state duma of Russia it was suggested by the colonel E. Fedorov that bombing the Nevada test site (with ZERO victims) would be the best demonstration. But the main problem is that the Russian society is not angry enough to approve this decision. To make the Russian society hate the US to the necessary degree, the Ukrainian campaign is absolutely needed. Almost every single day Mr. Lavrov explains to Russian people that Ukraine is remotely ruled by the US. About 2-3 months later every family in Russia will have war victims and Mr. Lavrov will keep explaining who is the reason. Putin thinks that the Russian society will then be angry enough for the hard collision with the West.

Rubbish. From events so far, it's clear that Putin is not overly concerned about young lives, be they Ukrainian babies and kids, or 18 year old Russian conscripts.

[ozimoron]

According to a report from the Washington Post, Vladimir Putin has upset and enraged the citizens of his own country with his invasion of Ukraine, which has led to devastating sanctions that are crushing the Russian economy in a way that may take decades to recover.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/russians-totally-devastated-after-putin-flushed-their-economy-down-the-toilet-in-five-days-report/