Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good luck getting Putin into the court. Not going to happen, IMO.

Thanks for your opinion. It does not stop states and prosecutors gathering all the evidence for charges to be announced on Putin and those directly responible for pulling the triggers in Ukraine.

[RJRS1301]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Good luck getting Putin into the court. Not going to happen, IMO.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. The best thing which will happen one hopes is confiscation of all his foreign held assets, personal and family. Ban on him ever entering any European country, refusal to allow any aircraft carrying him to land, and declared person non gratia by all nations friendly to Ukraine.

 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good luck getting Putin into the court. Not going to happen, IMO.

Alternative paths to him facing justice would be fine.

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its complicated but not impossible, article here covers some of the options, its a good read:

 

How would those accused of Ukraine war crimes be prosecuted?

"Poland, Germany, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, France, Slovakia, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland all opened independent investigations into Russia’s activity in Ukraine within the first month of the conflict. They can do so under the legal concept of “universal jurisdiction,” which allows countries to use domestic courts to prosecute individuals for grave violations of international law, like crimes against humanity, torture and war crimes – even if they are committed abroad by foreign perpetrators against foreign victims."

 

So what happens if a peace settlement is proposed and as part of that settlement Russia demands immunity from all crimes against humanity prosecutions? ????

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. The best thing which will happen one hopes is confiscation of all his foreign held assets, personal and family. Ban on him ever entering any European country, refusal to allow any aircraft carrying him to land, and declared person non gratia by all nations friendly to Ukraine.

 

I very much doubt Putin will care much about any of that, and does he have assets in western countries?

Putin only has to stop export of energy to Europe to show who has more to lose. According to article on Al Jazira Russia also produces most of some of the minerals necessary to make electric cars, so expect them to soar in price- oh dear!

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Alternative paths to him facing justice would be fine.

You dreamer you.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

So what happens if a peace settlement is proposed and as part of that settlement Russia demands immunity from all crimes against humanity prosecutions? ????

 

What if.........????

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thanks for your opinion. It does not stop states and prosecutors gathering all the evidence for charges to be announced on Putin and those directly responible for pulling the triggers in Ukraine.

Trial in absentia and a virtual jail sentence?

[friendofthai]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Alternative paths to him facing justice would be fine.

Tribunal is a dish of the winner. You should win first.

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trial in absentia and a virtual jail sentence?

No just a wanted war criminal will do, I'm sure the Ukrainian people who have lost loved ones and their homes will be partially satisfied with that outcome.

[Chris.B]

22 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What if.........????

You don't think Russia would demand immunity from prosecution as part of any settlement? 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Chris.B said:

You don't think Russia would demand immunity from prosecution as part of a settlement? 

I have no idea, what do you think? I can think of a few other what ifs also.........

[RJRS1301]

Russian forces agreed to leave town of Slavutych if those with arms handed them over to the mayor

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/26/russian-soldiers-release-ukraine-towns-mayor-and-agree-to-leave-after-protests?utm_term=62400b7516928207eff9322d9403e1fd&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

[RJRS1301]

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I very much doubt Putin will care much about any of that, and does he have assets in western countries?

Putin only has to stop export of energy to Europe to show who has more to lose. According to article on Al Jazira Russia also produces most of some of the minerals necessary to make electric cars, so expect them to soar in price- oh dear!

He certainly has assets held and used by family members in several overseas countries. Daughter has a large home in Belgravia, girlfriend and the ex wife is not living in poverty in Europe in mansions.

 

[friendofthai]

26 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

He certainly has assets held and used by family members in several overseas countries. Daughter has a large home in Belgravia, girlfriend and the ex wife is not living in poverty in Europe in mansions.

 

Looks like Vlad will say tomorrow: "Comrades! I want my villa in Belgravia back! So I have decided to capitulate. And our western partners can execute me right now!"

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, coolcarer said:

I’m asking questions related to the assertions you keep making. When called out on those you then refuse to answer and instead deflect as above. Changing the goal posts as Putin does is not an admirable trait.

What other than I don't know what is going to happen do you want me to say. 

I think have made my position clear we will have to agree to disagree because your focus on me and what I post is a waste of time. 

 

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, farmerjo said:

This is where our views differ.

Ukraine hasn't stopped him,NATO's weapon supplies have.

How long do you think it will be before the arms supplies are slowed to a few shipments of bullets.

For any peace to occur which should be everyone's goal,Ukraine will not be left with an arsenal of NATO weapons.

Long long time. Shipments are increasing. For peace to occur, what's left of the Russian army needs to go home.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

I would be careful to declare victory, before we know the price paid, and it is over! This war will have consequences for decades to come, and if NATO will intervene, then?

 

 

He didn't declare victory though. Did he?

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

So what happens if a peace settlement is proposed and as part of that settlement Russia demands immunity from all crimes against humanity prosecutions? ????

 

Such treaty has never been agreed to or ever will be.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Ending Putin's reign would be a good solution IMO, however it would take some folks with huge "cojones" to do this.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I was reminded of it when I was watching a movie called "The Courier" last night, when JFK called Khrushchev's bluff, when Khrushchev was moving missiles into Cuba and a nuclear war was the push of a button away, but JFK delivered his own "threat/promise" to the USSR, and they withdrew their missiles and stopped new ones arriving.

 

Surely Putin must be aware that if he launched nuclear weapons, they would kill his own countrymen as well as others, and could/should provoke other countries to do likewise to Russia, so it's a no-win situation, as well as making countries affected by nuclear fallout, damn near useless for decades to come.

 

The US/Nato should stand its ground, issue a similar threat to Putin (and that might get a change of leadership in itself) and call Putin out, and start to ship its fighter planes to Poland to allow them to pass on their fighter aircraft to the Ukraine.

 

Sorry if it's been covered before, but I haven't got time to review 82 pages of comments!!

Well it a difficult situation and to get the people of Russia and possibly what generals he has left to remove Putin from power is the only way as I see it at the moment in time.

 

Yeah the Cuba sinario gets mentioned in media. 

 

All the emotional reteric from the west will be going in Putin's ear and out the other.

 

About the fighter jets that were going to be given by Poland some time back by way of getting them to Ukraine via a US German base as I remember apparently we're up-graided and it would take some 2 weeks for Ukrainian pilots to get familiar with flying them. 

 

As for NATO I regard them as not very helpful in the past and as of now. 

[RJRS1301]

30 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Looks like Vlad will say tomorrow: "Comrades! I want my villa in Belgravia back! So I have decided to capitulate. And our western partners can execute me right now!"

Are you even capable of comprehending the post I was replying to ?

Your asinine response  indicates  seems that you have no basic comprehension,

 

 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Because Putin, an ex-KGB officer, said that stopping NATO was his aim, you believe him? He also said Ukraine isn't a real country. Putin is an avowed fan of Alexander Dugin, a fascist political philosopher who states that Ukraine must be reabsorbed by Russia in order to recreate the Russian empire. No ifs, ands, or buts there. And did Russian troops fight to take the Donbass because of NATO? Is that why Russia has seized portions of Moldova and Georgia? Is NATO the reason why Putin has claimed Russia has the right to protect ethnic Russian populations wherever they exist?

Who would believe Putin. 

 

I would say Donbass has nothing to do with the NATO advance.

 

I know nothing Moldova or Georgia.

 

Yes. 

[Hummin]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

He didn't declare victory though. Did he?

It seems like some think it is soon over, and I hope so, but I fear it is not.

 

We will see soon! Right now news says Russia pulling their troops east, so they might secure the land corridor as stated among many analysts, have been his goal all the way with this invasion.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously? You actually think Ukrainian pilots can jump into the cockpit of a strange aircraft and win against Russian pilots?

 

Those planes cost multi millions of $ and I doubt the US wants them falling into Russian hands to look at the secret stuff in them.

 

Ukraine is not in NATO so what grounds does NATO have to get involved?

 

Seems like some on here want WW3 between nuclear armed countries. What could possibly go wrong with that?

They can fly and fight Polish AF MiG 29s immediately. Please get off the beach and up to speed.

 

The Poles were to receive F16s to offset the transfer of their ex Soviet fighters (above) from the USA, of which they have 32 already (and probably more by now).

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Alternative paths to him facing justice would be fine.

Like arriving in The Hague via DHL.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It seems like some think it is soon over, and I hope so, but I fear it is not.

 

We will see soon! Right now news says Russia pulling their troops east, so they might secure the land corridor as stated among many analysts, have been his goal all the way with this invasion.

Show us where Putin stated that was his only objective before the invasion this year.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It seems like some think it is soon over, and I hope so, but I fear it is not.

 

We will see soon! Right now news says Russia pulling their troops east, so they might secure the land corridor as stated among many analysts, have been his goal all the way with this invasion.

Can't see anyone here thinking it will be over soon or declaring victory. There is no sign yet of any peace negotiation breakthroughs. They've been bombing in the west again despite saying they are finishing with their so called phase 1 which we all know just a face saving announcement.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

There lies the problem Russia or more so Putin doesn't see himselve as the aggressor Putin see's NATO closing in with US helping.

Neither of us know what is going on in Putin's head.  However I think it is more likely that Putin doesn't see NATO as a threat but as an impediment in his goal of recreating the Russian empire as it existed when it was the Soviet Union.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I very much doubt Putin will care much about any of that, and does he have assets in western countries?

Putin only has to stop export of energy to Europe to show who has more to lose. According to article on Al Jazira Russia also produces most of some of the minerals necessary to make electric cars, so expect them to soar in price- oh dear!

Right, all Putin has to do is slaughter Russia's cash cow.

 

Russia exports a lot of commodities and it will be inconvenient for the rest of the world while alternative sources are found.  However Russia exports little beyond commodities, and any reduction in that trade hurts Russia much more than the rest of the world.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Right, all Putin has to do is slaughter Russia's cash cow.

 

Russia exports a lot of commodities and it will be inconvenient for the rest of the world while alternative sources are found.  However Russia exports little beyond commodities, and any reduction in that trade hurts Russia much more than the rest of the world.

According to Al Jazira Russia is the largest rare earth refiner on earth, and most countries won't allow that on their territory. If people want electric cars it might be Russia or nothing. They are going to cost more anyway, a lot more.

I'm happy I don't want an electric car.