Why do we continue to receive smaller pensions than European expats?

[itsari]

7 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, I got that. I am happy to hear you got it down to the bare minimum. ????????????

Had to live on less earlier . But i am versatile and a survivor 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, NanaSomchai said:

The proper and safest way to do it in my opinion. Get your funds/benefits/social security/pension deposited in your account and then do transfers or ATM withdrawals at your own leisure.

 

Don't feed the governments. The less they know, the better.

 

Yeash, that's usually how it works everywhere else in the World. Countries just have different regulations.

 

In my opinion: Keep it quiet and carry on. Discretion is key.

Yeah, I just can't see how giving the US Treasury my Thai banking information so they can do a direct deposit in Thailand benefits me. Sure, $12 in ATM related charges saved, but still.

 

Dunno.... $12 so they DON'T have my Thai banking information? Sounds like a bargain! 555

[new2here]

11 hours ago, Onerak said:

I think it should be index linked (or adjusted for inflation, I assume) no matter where you live. At least social security in the USA is. 

the US system (and maybe others but i’m not sure) is, IMGO. a very good deal as not only do you get the COLA* bump, but IF inflation, as measured by the relevant index, turns out to be negative, your benefit does not decline..

 

So, essentially for US persons, they have only upside potential and zero downside risk.

 

to be fair, i think it’s a legit argument that the specific index used by SSA may not be the most reflective of a beneficiaries real-world spending, can be made, but the larger point i make is that for US folks, I think it’s a good deal as there’s no real downside risk at all

[vVDB]

a person who retires abroad should have his salary reduced by about 20% because he does not pay indirect taxes in his country of origin.

[Speedhump]

5 hours ago, itsari said:

I appreciate your situation . But there is a thing called living within your means . I am not saying you are not , but there are considerable savings to be had from keeping out of housing resorts 

My income's fine thanks, that's why I said 'would'. 

 

I like the resort life though, but I appreciate you do have to pay a bit for it. 

 

The other problem as I mentioned would be THB 5000 or more for health insurance (for just one person). My wife currently has cancer and we're too long a time away from UK not to pay there either. 

[Speedhump]

6 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Looks like you’re being ripped off then

Not in the least. 4500 common fee and balance is sinking fund and leccy/water at PEA/PWA tariffs  (swimming pool and lots of lovely aircon almost 24/7) . Some idiots 'liked' your comment. Friends of yours in the secure facility? 

[david555]

12 hours ago, Onerak said:

I think it should be index linked (or adjusted for inflation, I assume) no matter where you live. At least social security in the USA is. 

As so it is ruled in my E.U. country , wherever you live on earth we are entitled to receive our pension same way as we would be addressed in home country .....

 

Exception for extra added social payments if pension is too low and under a certain sum , as that is seen as a social added payment and only to receive when living in home country and not absent for a longer period of  x day's (forgot the exact number , but just a normal holiday number ...)

 

In 13 year living Thailand this brought my indexation only already  at 12% + ,besides other augmentations .

 

 

I think the Brits voted for  the wrong ones ...... not all can become a conservative elite one in life ????

[NanaSomchai]

37 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yeah, I just can't see how giving the US Treasury my Thai banking information so they can do a direct deposit in Thailand benefits me. Sure, $12 in ATM related charges saved, but still.

 

Dunno.... $12 so they DON'T have my Thai banking information? Sounds like a bargain! 555

Totally, don't lose sleep over the $12.

 

Also goes the ole saying "Don't fix what isn't broken".

 

[Andy261]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Depends what you need in life Andy . 

If you survive you are living  .

No, if you survive you are alive.

But otherwise you're right. Some people are satisfied with drinking rainwater and do nothing at all.

Personally I wouldn't be satisfied at all with that.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

if Im not wrong, 20 years of work is the minimum during those 40 years. Not sure

I'm a Yank, and goes by a different point system to be fully vested, then the amount you get is averaged on your last 18 months working, or can be appealed is needed, if not your better earnings period.  Or something like that, as been 20+ yrs since I read up on it.

 

Max Soc Sec for Yanks is about $2500 / ฿80k a month, though I think I read the average is < $1500 / ฿48k  a month, so depending how close to the average, most should have enough for marriage visa.

 

My local Imm Office allows 400k dep + 40k a month for retirement visa.

Edited March 1, 2022 by KhunLA

[HauptmannUK]

A couple of years ago I listened to a BBC Radio 4 interview in which a Treasury minister was discussing the issue of UK pensioners living overseas (this was in the context of Brexit and pensioners in Spain etc). I remember he stated that there are around 12 million pensioners and about 10% - over a million - live overseas. He was saying that paying pensions overseas  represents a 'loss' to the UK economy of over £6bn per year. He was arguing that pensions should only be payable when UK resident (apoarently Australia have some such system). I can imagine that at some point in the future the UK will copy Aus.

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Had to live on less earlier . But i am versatile and a survivor 

Thanks! I can feel your pain. I do not move to another country just to be a survivor. That´s pure madness in my world.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

I'd suggest the best bet to achieve your aim is a political process of lobbying a specific party to adopt your sought redress as a policy platform prior to the next election. (Assuming still registered to vote & do vote)

When the IRA blew up the Brighton Conservative conference, the MPs soon changed their minds.

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, Asquith Production said:

The UK have actually committed fraud in my opinion and it is about time that  everybody got together to fight this.

I have always referred to  it as legalised fraud but being legal it cannot be fraud, it is discrimination, but as any politician will tell you discrimination is not tolerated in the UK.

The case that went to the ECHR effectively failed because the complexity surrounding NI contributions as they are not exclusively for the state pension.

The main problem is that the current legislation is embedded in the Social Security Act and this is where the reciprocal agreement comes into play. There hasn't been any new agreements for around 40 years, that was until Brexit came along. Suddenly government policy did a U turn and a new agreement was necessary so OAPs in the EU didn't become frozen pensioners. Special arrangements were made for them until this new agreement gets finalised. I think it was Amber Rudd that said they deserved the full pension because they helped make Britain great, bit of a kick in the teeth for the rest of us.

The government could very easy separate the pension legislation from the Social security Act but there is not the political will. Every year the SSA comes before the House for amendment but they only ever address the social side and vote to leave the pension legislation as it is.

The government stance is that it has always been that way, but if historical precedence made things right we would still have slavery.

 

Guy Opperman: The policy on the up-rating of UK State Pensions for recipients overseas is longstanding and has been supported by successive Governments for over 70 years. The Government has no plans to change this policy.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01457/SN01457.pdf 

[sambum]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

185 a week is top braket ... and they expect you to be able to live on that ????

Correct! 

[Outwide]

You may find Spain has reciprocal health care benefits, hence the difference.  I'm Australian and face the same problems.

 

[sambum]

I heard that  a few years ago that a long time ago, a lady from the UK decided to retire to Niagara Falls in Ontario Canada. A friend of hers moved at the same time, but settled in Niagara Falls, New York.

 

I'm sure you know what's coming next! They were both getting the same pension originally, but the lady in NY gets her annual pension increments, (in line with inflation in the UK/Index linked to inflation - call it what you will) but the lady in Ontario doesn't, with the result that 10 or 20 years down the line, the difference is quite substantial (I did hear the figures at the time, but can't remember them) 

 

Apparently, the lady from Ontario (and this scenario has been repeated at least once to my knowledge - by a British lady retired and living in South Africa) took the case to the European Court, and asked why the discrepancy (She could actually almost wave to her friend across the Falls) 

 

The lady living in South Africa was told that it was because she didn't pay tax in the UK. whereas the lady living in Toronto (a more recent case) was told, as mentioned above, that the UK did not have a "reciprocal" arrangement with Thailand!

 

At the end of the day, it would appear that successive governments  - be it Tory or Labour, don't give a hoot about UK  pensioners living abroad - except when it comes to election time when they start making noises about "we are fully aware of the situatiopn, and I/we promise that if we are in power after the election, it will definitely be looked into".

 

As I said "at the end of the day" - that is as far as it gets, has got in the past, and is likely to get in the future!!!

 

 

[itsari]

2 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Thanks! I can feel your pain. I do not move to another country just to be a survivor. That´s pure madness in my world.

I have no pain . We both live on the same world yet we have both a different idea on how we shall live our life .

Try not to condemn people that have a different opinion than your good self

[itsari]

2 hours ago, Andy261 said:

No, if you survive you are alive.

But otherwise you're right. Some people are satisfied with drinking rainwater and do nothing at all.

Personally I wouldn't be satisfied at all with that.

I manage three chang beers a day . What you are satisfied with is not always what you get 

[fredscats]

4 hours ago, itsari said:

Immigration bmw tracked him maybe ?

Nobody tracked anybody,its a non sanctionable benefit   Would have to declare without any threat where he is      then get his hand burnt

[barney42bb]

"There's a lot wrong with The UK....But there is a Hell of a lot more Good about it"

 

Some very wise words I was given back in 2005, when I considered to become an Ex-Pat.

 

But it's always good to keep a Bolthole back in Blighty...despite all the things that make you want to leave.

 

Keep an Address, GP, Bank Account,... Never declare Non_Dom Status... Pay some tax.

 

Never Forget... Us Farrangs count for Naff All in Thailand... Life is cheap..especially Farrangs. Don't Buy or invest in Property Land or Business... NO Freehold Rights.

 

PAYG and be polite to the locals and The woman... Obey the rules.

 

Never Commit.

 

There'll always be an England. 

 

Vera Lynn.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, barney42bb said:

Never Forget... Us Farrangs count for Naff All in Thailand

And we count for just as much in the UK.

[unblocktheplanet]

Brits & Euros have it easy. Canada withholds 25% of pensions at tax if the Canadian retiree lives overseas more than 6 months a year. Ouch!

[fredscats]

6 hours ago, chilly07 said:

I maintain a UK address but I would never use it to circumvent the state pension rules despite successive governments immoral and illegal pension freezes. Just a little investigation by DWP would result in me being but to date they haven't made a liable to a cancellation of my state pension which I cannot afford. There is a standing parliamentary committee on frozen pensionsbreakthrough despite Brexit negotiations with many worldwide countries on new trade deals which include pension rights especially Australia and Canada and the remaining 27 EU countries without any progress being made

Where did this gem of information spring from?,the bit of cancelled pension?  answer in your own time

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, barney42bb said:

Keep an Address, GP, Bank Account,... Never declare Non_Dom Status... Pay some tax.

 

This part depends on your circumstances, I 1st became a full time Expat when I worked in Singapore so had the choice of paying 40% (+ approx 11% for NI) to the UK or 11-12% to Singapore, no prizes for guessing what I decided. 

 

Apart from not being able to renew my UK driving license (this through choice as I didn't want to tell one government agency 1 thing whilst telling another government agency something else), I haven't lost anything through doing it yet as I'm 11 years away from getting my state pension, but have gained much more than I could ever lose in a frozen pension from lower taxation, not having to pay NI/Capital Gains Tax (On Share sales) or higher rate tax on UK dividends. 

 

 

I do still pay AVCs though as I believe in doing my bit for the country, but even here I'm winning for being Non-Resident (for Tax Purposes) as I pay at Class 2 rates so about £180 pa instead of closer to £800... 

 

 

As for the non-bolded parts of the quote above, well I still have my house in the UK & I was posted to Singapore by Barclays so still have all of my credit cards & bank/investment accounts with them along with accounts with Halifax (Lloyds now) & a mortgage with Virgin One (Now RBS). 

 

 

 

  

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[Will B Good]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

This part depends on your circumstances, I 1st became a full time Expat when I worked in Singapore so had the choice of paying 40% (+ approx 11% for NI) to the UK or 11-12% to Singapore, no prizes for guessing what I decided. 

 

Apart from not being able to renew my UK driving license (this through choice as I didn't want to tell one government agency 1 thing whilst telling another government agency something else), I haven't lost anything through doing it yet as I'm 11 years away from getting my state pension, but have gained much more than I could ever lose in a frozen pension from not having to pay Capital Gains Tax (On Share sales) or higher rate tax on UK dividends. 

 

 

I do still pay AVCs though as I believe in doing my bit for the country, but even here I'm winning for being Non-Resident (for Tax Purposes) as I pay at Class 2 rates so about £180 pa instead of closer to £800... 

 

 

As for the non-bolded parts of the quote above, well I still have my house in the UK & I was posted to Singapore by Barclays so still have all of my credit cards & bank/investment accounts with them along with accounts with Halifax (Lloyds now) & a mortgage with Virgin One (Now RBS). 

 

 

 

  

Done something similar....plus remained registered with my local GP......even pop in when in the UK and regularly order repeat prescriptions.

[Mike Teavee]

6 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Done something similar....plus remained registered with my local GP......even pop in when in the UK and regularly order repeat prescriptions.

I was kicked off my GP's register about a decade before I became an Expat (at the time UK Gov had a mass cleansing of patients that hadn't visit their Dr's surgery in 5-10 years & he hadn't seen me in approx 15 years)... Plus  I was living/working in Glasgow at the time so it wasn't like he was going to see me, but like @BritManToohad company provided private health insurance at the time that whilst I never used, still paid Benefits In Kind (40%) Tax for so never really thought about it.  

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

I have no pain . We both live on the same world yet we have both a different idea on how we shall live our life .

Try not to condemn people that have a different opinion than your good self

Didn´t condemn anybody at all. What I said is that I can feel your pain, that you according to my must have everyday. Good for you if you not have. After that I just posted my reason for living here, and that my eyes looks at under 60k as madness. That´s an opinion and not condemning. 

[itsari]

1 minute ago, Gottfrid said:

Didn´t condemn anybody at all. What I said is that I can feel your pain, that you according to my must have everyday. Good for you if you not have. After that I just posted my reason for living here, and that my eyes looks at under 60k as madness. That´s an opinion and not condemning. 

Yes, you are more than entitled to your opinion . But your opinion reaches out to absurdity when you quote a income of 6 times a average Thai wage . 

If you have so much income go and live amongst the wealthy in the first world . Then you would be in harmony with your neighbours .

[Gottfrid]

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

Yes, you are more than entitled to your opinion . But your opinion reaches out to absurdity when you quote a income of 6 times a average Thai wage . 

If you have so much income go and live amongst the wealthy in the first world . Then you would be in harmony with your neighbours .

What? Do you think most people come to Thailand with a small amount of money and monthly income? That is as wrong as it can be. Most of us have over 65k per month as retired. And that is still very small. Here it´s only the ones complaining you hear about. The other 75 - 85 % of all expats in Thailand are doing good.

Then, the average salary in Thailand is between 75k - 100k. Low income is average about 25k and the high average is above 400k per month.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Gottfrid