Fish Pond

[Wongkitlo]

Hi. I am looking into  rectangular fishpond to fill a space 3 metres long. I have seen Thai constructions with bricks and render and was trying to find out if the render is enough to make it waterproof od would it need waterproofing treatment or a liner. Thais seem to usually tile them but I do not mind just the rendered look  with no tiles as is in a cement paved  courtyard. Any advice or costings appreciated. I have posted the area I want to fill.

[cnx1204]

The developer tiled my pond and the only complaint I have is that the koi won't reproduce.  But I don't need them to as I have some 20 koi, bunch of algae eaters and hundreds of "mosquito" minnows.   The fish have really grown over the last 12 years or so, so all tile pond is not detrimental in any way I can tell.  I don't think the pond filter would clean the water with any more big fish.

Edited March 3, 2022 by cnx1204
add last sentence

[sometimewoodworker]

You need a DPC under the render or a liner over it. Otherwise it will leak like a sieve 

[Wongkitlo]

13 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You need a DPC under the render or a liner over it. Otherwise it will leak like a sieve 

Sorry a bit new to this. DPC.? Thank you

[The Hammer2021]

23 minutes ago, cnx1204 said:

The developer tiled my pond and the only complaint I have is that the koi won't reproduce.  But I don't need them to as I have some 20 koi, bunch of algae eaters and hundreds of "mosquito" minnows.   The fish have really grown over the last 12 years or so, so all tile pond is not detrimental in any way I can tell.  I don't think the pond filter would clean the water with any more big fish.

Great pic!

[jak2002003]

I just made my own ponds with normal concrete....nothing else.. you can see videos on YouTube about how to do it.  

 

I don't like the tiled look...looks like a swimming pool and you would forever be cleaning the algae off the tiles.  Also I hate the plastic pond liners...they are ugly and fake looking and give no grip for plants to grown.

 

I made 2 natural looking ponds with a layer of sand on the bottom and lots of water plants.  

 

I don't keep koi though...just little fish to eat mosquitos, and wildlife gets in there on its own; like frogs, snails, dragonflies and water bugs etc.  

 

All I have to do is chuck out loads of the water plants a few times a year and also do a few partial water changes with dechlorinated water.  The water stays crystal clear and clean with no filter as I don't have big fish in it to poop a lot. 

 

The fresh concrete will harm fish in a new pond though...so you have to either give it a coating of pond sealant or let water stand in it a few weeks and then drain it out and refill it.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by jak2002003

[jak2002003]

 

I keep harvesting lots of these fish out of the ponds to give away. 

 

Also keep some gourami fish, Siamese fighting fish, mollies and some small brown native fish a neighbour's kid dumped in there. 

[timendres]

41 minutes ago, cnx1204 said:

The developer tiled my pond and the only complaint I have is that the koi won't reproduce.  But I don't need them to as I have some 20 koi, bunch of algae eaters and hundreds of "mosquito" minnows.   The fish have really grown over the last 12 years or so, so all tile pond is not detrimental in any way I can tell.  I don't think the pond filter would clean the water with any more big fish.

So jealous of your pond. It is beautiful.

[sometimewoodworker]

48 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

Sorry a bit new to this. DPC.? Thank you

Damp Proof Course 

[bankruatsteve]

Whatever you do, Koi ponds need circulation/aeration or they die.

[Wongkitlo]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

I just made my own ponds with normal concrete....nothing else.. you can see videos on YouTube about how to do it.  

 

I don't like the tiled look...looks like a swimming pool and you would forever be cleaning the algae off the tiles.  Also I hate the plastic pond liners...they are ugly and fake looking and give no grip for plants to grown.

 

I made 2 natural looking ponds with a layer of sand on the bottom and lots of water plants.  

 

I don't keep koi though...just little fish to eat mosquitos, and wildlife gets in there on its own; like frogs, snails, dragonflies and water bugs etc.  

 

All I have to do is chuck out loads of the water plants a few times a year and also do a few partial water changes with dechlorinated water.  The water stays crystal clear and clean with no filter as I don't have big fish in it to poop a lot. 

 

The fresh concrete will harm fish in a new pond though...so you have to either give it a coating of pond sealant or let water stand in it a few weeks and then drain it out and refill it.  

Thanks. Youtube makes sense

[Wongkitlo]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Damp Proof Course 

Thanks. 

[Crossy]

Our koi mansion is concrete and tiled. Tiles applied using pool tile cement and waterproof grout. If you just render you can get an additive to make it waterproof (ok less leaky).

 

For concrete with no liner you will need a lot more re-bar than you think, the simple mesh isn't enough to prevent cracking, hence my comment below!

 

If I was doing it again I would use a liner.

[itsari]

11 hours ago, cnx1204 said:

The developer tiled my pond and the only complaint I have is that the koi won't reproduce.  But I don't need them to as I have some 20 koi, bunch of algae eaters and hundreds of "mosquito" minnows.   The fish have really grown over the last 12 years or so, so all tile pond is not detrimental in any way I can tell.  I don't think the pond filter would clean the water with any more big fish.

Beautiful fish and pond . 

What is the depth of the pond ?

What size pump do you use and do you run the pump 24 hours ?

[IvorBiggun2]

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You need a DPC under the render or a liner over it. Otherwise it will leak like a sieve 

I disagree. Thais use tiles and Portland cement to create a waterproof membrane. It's just as effective. You'll lose more water from evaporation.

 

How do I waterproof my swimming pool?

 

Waterproofing of the pool is achieved efficiently by applying a strong waterproof cement mortar to the pool's walls and bottom, which acts as a sealing and smoothing layer at the same time. Thus, the smooth, stable and waterproof substrate needed for the application of the epoxy coating is created.

Edited March 4, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I disagree. Thais use tiles and Portland cement to create a waterproof membrane.

No they don’t, see above, it’s just less leaky.

 

is it possible to make a concrete tank waterproof without a liner or DPC? Of course it is.

Do the vast majority of tanks made like that leak? Of course they do.

This is because the majority are not sufficiently well constructed first time. 
see @Crossy post above 

[IvorBiggun2]

26 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No they don’t, see above, it’s just less leaky.

I have a basement in my house. Obviously it's below ground level. Did the builders put in a membrane? No they didn't. Using Portland cement in the concrete mix is just as good as a  membrane as long as its done in one pour. Failing that you will have a cold joint and a weakness when it comes to being waterproof. You can fit a seal in a cold joint if one pour isn't an option.

 

A cold joint seal

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I have a basement in my house. Obviously it's below ground level. Did the builders put in a membrane? No they didn't. Using Portland cement in the concrete mix is just as good as a  membrane as long as its done in one pour. Failing that you will have a cold joint and a weakness when it comes to being waterproof. You can fit a seal in a cold joint if one pour isn't an option.

 

A cold joint seal

 

Humm. Do you actually understand what you are saying?  Because you are managing to disguise and semblance of it.

 

the 4 constituents of concrete are water, Portland cement, aggregates, and air.  One of the major reasons why a lot of Thai cement is akin to a sieve is the excessive use of water. The excess isn’t used in the curing process, evaporates leaving the concrete water permeability high. So no Portland cement doesn’t make concrete waterproof.

Edited March 4, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[IvorBiggun2]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Do you actually understand what you are saying?

Yes. Do you?

 

Quote

Waterproof cement is the name given to a portland cement to which a water-repellent agent has been added. 

 

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

One of the major reasons why a lot of Thai cement is akin to a sieve is the excessive use of water.

I agree with your above comment but in reality I would only use a delivered mix to a slump recommendation. And that would mean a machine mix untouched by Thai hands.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Do you actually understand what you are saying?

Yes. Do you?

 

Quote

Waterproof cement is the name given to a portland cement to which a water-repellent agent has been added. 

That is not what you claimed.

your claim was that 

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Using Portland cement in the concrete mix is just as good as a  membrane as long as its done in one pour.

Since Portland cement is a major constituent of concrete your statement was wrong.

 

you did not mention that it is the additional constituents not the Portland cement itself that makes it waterproof 

[cnx1204]

On 3/4/2022 at 6:02 AM, itsari said:

Beautiful fish and pond . 

What is the depth of the pond ?

What size pump do you use and do you run the pump 24 hours ?

The pond is 40-45 cm deep, depending upon evaporation.  I change about 25% of the water each week cleaning the filter system behind the wall.   I have had smaller pumps but now have a 280 l/min one.   I have four O2 generating inlet pipes around the pond and three water falls on the back wall.  I didn't have the water fall on for the picture.  The pond holds around 7000 liters.  The pipe size restricts the flow so I know I am not getting the full 280 liters.  I like to think maybe a water change every hour?  Yes, run it 24 hrs a day.

 

Maybe over kill, but I also have two separate O2 pumps going to four  9 in diameter movable O2 outlets in the pond.  I read you can  not get too much O2 in the water.

 

My filter system:   A 4 inch diameter gravity drain from the pond to the  in ground filter.  Water flow into the filter matches what the pump pumps out.   A lot of sediment drops out in the settling basin, most of the rest is caught as the water flows up through a fiber mesh filter (like what is used in making a comforter) that I change every week.  The the water flow through the lava rocks which I might wash every 6 months or so (per recommendations).  And I have a floating UV light fixture in the lava rock sections that is on 24 hrs/day to kill algae (works).  This system is covered.   Minimum maintenance; maybe 30 minutes once a week.

 

NOTE:  ignore the labels in red font.  I drew these diagrams for another reason years ago.

Edited March 16, 2022 by cnx1204
add the NOTE

[Will B Good]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:58 PM, timendres said:

So jealous of your pond. It is beautiful.

Bigger than my swimming pool.......55