Thailand does the math: Two are dying per hour on the Thai roads

[rudi49jr]

4 hours ago, 2long said:

After more than 22 years here, I have 'got used to' quite a lot, including the weather, language, food, culture etc, but one thing I will never ever adapt to or accept is the dangerous driving, or even the selfish parking.

For a nation of polite, friendly people who have the phrase 'greng jai' which doesn't even directly translate in English, it never ceases to amaze me how bad most of them are.

My theory is that Thai people, in their everyday life with all its very strict social manners and morals and rules of behavior, are forced into a straitjacket that is much too tight, and that causes a lot of stress and frustration. So they need an outlet, an exhaust-valve. And I think traffic is that outlet to them, that there they can behave opposite to the way they are forced to behave in everyday life. 

[Leatherneck]

3 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Vietnam impressed me with the high % of people wearing helmets.

Not counting young passengers below driving age, I would estimate 98% - 99%.

 

I mentioned this to a local, who told me that when it became law there was not a lot of compliance, but then they began fining offenders...

Yes, but they are even worse drivers than Thais.

[DUNROAMIN]

No law enforcement, no proper driver training, road carnage will continue. Never ending story.

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

Seriously? they are a group of police given a secondhand hHonda - they aren't trained and there is no incident investigation squad - there is no system for enforcing road rules and no system in thecoursts for dealing with it - you can write what you like on car it doesn't make it real.

They found the identity of the Canadian gunmen.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

I see farangs without helmets in Chiang Mai frequently.

I have no doubts at all that many foreigners are in Thailand because they are free to break the law with little to no chance of police action. Those who resent their home country 'nanny state' designed to protect them and others.

 

I remember once I was in a mini bus in Berlin and a policeman banged on the window because he had noticed when alongside that I wasn't wearing the seat belt. Imagine that happening in Bangkok? On the times I've been in Bali, and as another poster said re Vietnam, 99% wear a helmet as it's the law and it is enforced. In Thailand, the good for nothing police are indirectly responsible for many, many thousands of deaths a year as they are too lazy to do their job.

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, berrec said:

 

You can't put brains in statues!

But you can crash into them along with trees, trucks, pillars, bridges, cafes, trains, light poles, U-turns, cars, motorcycles, bicycles, pedestrians, etc.

If you have a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[Tubulat]

As long as you believe in a next life....nothing will change.

And of course the amulets.

[Joules]

4 hours ago, 2long said:

After more than 22 years here, I have 'got used to' quite a lot, including the weather, language, food, culture etc, but one thing I will never ever adapt to or accept is the dangerous driving, or even the selfish parking.

For a nation of polite, friendly people who have the phrase 'greng jai' which doesn't even directly translate in English, it never ceases to amaze me how bad most of them are.

I am quite the opposite after 15 years here.  The driving is the number one thing I absolutely love.  I used to get so many tickets back in my home country, not for unsafe behavior mind you, but simply for violations with no connection to safety.  Such as coming up to a stop sign where you can see miles in every direction with no traffic so you roll on through.  TICKET!!! 

 

Here, just don't hurt anybody else and you can do pretty much as you wish.  You can run red lights where there is no conflicting traffic, you can drive as fast as you wish, you can even drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid having to drive 2km to the next U-turn!  If one does get a ticket from one of those tax assessing cameras, just toss it in the trash!  I love this atmosphere of personal responsibility and freedom.  You are free to make your own decisions, but if you hurt someone, you are responsible. 

 

I simply cannot understand why foreigners come here and observe rational driving for the first time in their lives and think it is "unfriendly."  There are rude drivers everywhere, but I have found that the great lion's share Thai drivers are polite, helpful and courteous.  Much more so than where I came from.

 

I absolutely love this aspect of Thailand an hope it never changes.

[VocalNeal]

7 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

he had noticed when alongside that I wasn't wearing the seat belt. Imagine that happening in Bangkok?

You can get cited for no seatbelt in Bangkok. It depends on what they are looking for that day!

 

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I have no doubts at all that many foreigners are in Thailand because they are free to break the law with little to no chance of police action.

I like it here because of sunshine and palm trees. Driving/riding without constantly having to look over my shoulder is simply a bonus.

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, SuwadeeS said:

I do not believe this graph.

Thai government just learned better to cover up the real figure to not Look so bad.  Remember they have close friends with the CCP. The experts for manipulate numbers.

the stats you are referring to are gathered by  the Institute of Health Metric and Evaluation based in the University of Washington.

 

It does show though how cognitive dissonance works - if people are confronted with something that contradicts their personal beliefs, thy will ignore the evidence in favour of their own prejudices.

[Thunglom]

Back in th 1960s up till the 1980s, most countries has similar death statistics to Thailand. In the USA they had Ralph Nader and in Europe they had Sweden and Netherlands.

In the EU they adopted the "safe System" - this has reduced deaths per 100k to single figures.

In America the politics of individuality and "choice" have meant that after the initial reductions, there has been little change for decades. 

Other countries that have adopted the Safe SysteM have gradually reduced their death tolls too.

It does not rely on racist views of whole nations of bad drivers - it realises bad drivers are inherent to every country and that the road systems have to cater for this.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

Statistics in Thailand.....

=

3 - Statistics

As Mark Twain famously said (along with a few others), “There are lies, damned lies and statistics”

 

These are the main data sources for road safety statistics in Thailand

1. Police Information System (POLIS) - Royal Thai Police
2. TRAMS - Ministry of Transport
3. E-Claim - Road Victim Protection Company
4. Injury Surveillance (IS) - Ministry of Public Health
5. Trauma Registry - Ministry of Public Health
6. 19 External Causes of Injury - Ministry of Public Health
7. Information Technology for Emergency Medical System (ITEMS) - Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand
8. Emergency Claim Online (EMCO) - National Health Security Office
9. OP/PP Individual Record - National Health Security Office
10. Death Certificates - Ministry of Interior

They are seldom used or even acknowledged by the mainstream media.

The way statistics are gathered is usually by internationally recognised methods[1], but Thailand has dreadful statistics gathering and collation. Their statistics are incomplete inconsistent and inaccurate – Organisations like the WHO have to try and make sense of them, but in some categories, they simply aren’t available.

How they are gathered and applied in relation to motoring in particular can be very haphazard.

Having said that, it is fair to conclude that the stats for Thailand however vague, remain frightening and there is without doubt a serious road safety problem in the country.

 

While some road crashes can be predictable and preventable, efforts to systematically reduce crashes in resource-constrained environments have been stymied by lack of accurate, geo-referenced crash and health outcome data to support targeted interventions. As Michael Bloomberg said, “If you can’t measure it, then you can’t manage it”.

 

Statistics may include

·      Deaths per 1 million inhabitants (or 100,000)

o   Serious Injuries per I million inhabitants

o   Minor injuries per 1 million inhabitants

 

·      Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM

 

·      Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles

 

·      Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants

[WHO]

 

A crash report form is typically completed (traditionally a paper-based form, although recently computer-based systems have been used), allowing collection of quite detailed information on the crash. Key variables typically collected include:

 

·      crash location (including geographic coordinates);

·      time of day, day of week, month of year, year;

·      information on those who were involved (including road user type, age, gender, injury sustained);

·      details regarding the road (whether at an intersection, speed limit, curvature, traffic control, markings);

·      details on the environment (light conditions, weather, road surface wet or dry);

·      information regarding what happened in the crash (vehicle movement types, objects struck (including off-road), and contributory factors such as speed, alcohol use or driver distraction);

·      vehicle factors (type of vehicles involved).[2]

 

 

“In a nutshell, we need an integrated and standardised database system on road accidents that can be used across all agencies involved. This database system is necessary for the National Road Accident Prevention and Reduction Policy Commission to meet its goals more effectively.” – TDRI[3]

 

There are quite a mix of stats available about road safety in Thailand but the ones you usually see in the media are from either the Thai police or the WHO. The Thai police could almost be dismissed out of hand and the WHO is usually misrepresented as they only quote only the set of stats relating to DEATHS out of 100,000 population.

If you want to get an idea of how pathetically incomplete Thai road safety stats are just compare them with a brief look around the UK government web sites – for example - https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/downloads

 

 

The Thai police give out statistics too soon to be accurate and they fail to follow up or record minor or serious injury categories. Their analysis for RTIs is just not in any way comprehensive or scientific  enough to draw any reliable information from. All they do is take a few details, make a pronouncement and declare the case closed. Nothing is useful for future analysis.

 

WHO – gather stats pertaining to deaths per 100k, serious injuries, and minor injuries. They also gather statistics relating to the number of vehicles owned the mileage they cover. These are vital to get a good picture but totally ignored by the media.

When it comes to the WHO categories, there are no figures for Thai injuries that comply with international norms/standards i.e. - they should be in 3 grades - fatalities, serious injuries and minor injuries - this was not done until the last 2 or 3 years when some statistic gatherers appear to have been trying to redress the balance.

 

Collecting Data

 

A crash report form is an essential starting point

Key variables typically collected include:

 

·      crash location (including geographic coordinates);

·      time of day, day of week, month of year, year;

·      information on those who were involved (including road user type, age, gender, injury sustained);

·      details regarding the road (whether at an intersection, speed limit, curvature, traffic control, markings);

·      details on the environment (light conditions, weather, road surface wet or dry);

·      information regarding what happened in the crash (vehicle movement types, objects struck (including off-road), and contributory factors such as speed, alcohol use or driver distraction);

·      vehicle factors (type of vehicles involved).[4]

 

Crash data can be extremely useful to a number of agencies and individuals, including:

• traffic engineers – in the identification, analysis and treatment of existing risks and the prevention of future risk problems;
• policy-makers – at national, regional and local levels in setting crash reduction targets, developing road safety action plans, and monitoring performance;
• police – in the identification of problem locations and times for enforcement;
• health sector – for resource planning, injury surveillance, health promotion and injury prevention interventions;
• research community – in preventative studies and in testing and improving the effectiveness of road safety treatments;
• insurance companies – in setting insurance rates and premiums;
• vehicle manufacturers – in the development of safer vehicles;
• prosecutors – in the use of data as evidence.

 

These are the main data sources for road safety statistics in Thailand

1. Police Information System (POLIS) - Royal Thai Police
2. TRAMS - Ministry of Transport
3. E-Claim - Road Victim Protection Company
4. Injury Surveillance (IS) - Ministry of Public Health
5. Trauma Registry - Ministry of Public Health
6. 19 External Causes of Injury - Ministry of Public Health
7. Information Technology for Emergency Medical System (ITEMS) - Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand
8. Emergency Claim Online (EMCO) - National Health Security Office
9. OP/PP Individual Record - National Health Security Office
10. Death Certificates - Ministry of Interior

They are seldom used or even acknowledged by the mainstream media.

 

 

Filter this information through a media that is uneducated and archaic in their thinking and you get a picture that is at best blurred and out of focus or at worst, downright misleading.

This is not to say that the road death situation in Thailand isn’t lamentable but it cannot be addressed with appropriate action until proper and accurate information is available.

 

Just to get an idea of how traffic in Thailand has changed exponentially in the last 3 decades…. In 1980, there were just 600,000 cars on the streets of Thailand's capital, by 1990 the number had risen to 2.3 million and now it’s around 5 million daily – it’s hard to imagine the numbers involved in this exponential growth. . .. Thais nationwide are now driving in the region of 37 million cars and 22 million motorcycles on roads that have been rapidly built with scant regard to safety.

 

Government subsidies and a massive expansion of the road infrastructure also did their part. Today, it is estimated that there are more than 5 million cars on Bangkok’s streets alone. Unlike other countries who are trying to establish a solid infrastructure for public transport, Thailand has gone down the road of the individual motorist, at least in part because it has developed this large motor industry of its own. And partly one has to conclude that those in power are ignorant of the advances in the science of road safety or think they personally know better.

 

Although statistically safer than private vehicles, the public transport system is poor in both quality and performance and lacks infrastructure and finance. The lack of legislation means a “professional” driver is likely to be a hungover guy burnt out by amphetamines waiting for the next hangover to start. Despite the reputation of minivan drivers in Thailand, they are still statistically safer than a car or motorcycle.

However logic would suggest that by driving yourself you are at least in control of speed and drink and drug intake whilst making the journey.

 

One important thing to bear in mind is that if you are in a 4-wheeled private vehicle, you are statistically as likely to die as you are in a similar vehicle in the USA. 80 % of deaths are vulnerable road users and 73% of deaths are motorcyclists, drivers and passengers. 13% are cars and pickup trucks.

 

The factors in RTIs in Thailand are actually very similar to everywhere else in the world. First off, if you are poor, you are more at risk.

 

---

[1] The standard measures used in assessing road safety interventions are fatalities and killed-or-seriously-injured (KSI) rates, usually expressed per billion (10⁹) passenger kilometres. Countries using older road-safety paradigms^[7] replace KSI rates with crash rates – for example, crashes per million vehicle-miles. – wiki

 

 

[2] https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safety-data/crash-data-system

 

[3] TDRI - https://tdri.or.th/en/2020/11/road-accidents-biggest-health-crisis/

[4] https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safety-data/crash-data-system

 

A long, long post which obviously took a great deal of effort. Sorry, but here is all we really need to know:

1 - Thais do not need to prove they can drive in a manner which is not a danger to themselves and others before receiving a license.

2 - Thais have a Me First attitude, which has the potential to be fatal on the roads.

3 - Thailand does not have a police force that is willing to uphold the law, nor does it have the equipment (patrol cars etc) to do so.

4 - Drivers of any vehicle know that, if they drive irresponsibly as a result of 3 above, there is a close to zero chance of them being caught or punished in any way. And they have no perception at all that by driving the way they do then they and others might die. None.

 

All the reports and stats and so on are a total waste of time. The four points above is all anyone needs to know.

[Thunglom]

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

A long, long post which obviously took a great deal of effort. Sorry, but here is all we really need to know:

1 - Thais do not need to prove they can drive in a manner which is not a danger to themselves and others before receiving a license.

2 - Thais have a Me First attitude, which has the potential to be fatal on the roads.

3 - Thailand does not have a police force that is willing to uphold the law, nor does it have the equipment (patrol cars etc) to do so.

4 - Drivers of any vehicle know that, if they drive irresponsibly as a result of 3 above, there is a close to zero chance of them being caught or punished in any way. And they have no perception at all that by driving the way they do then they and others might die. None.

 

All the reports and stats and so on are a total waste of time. The four points above is all anyone needs to know.

Putting numbers on that list doesn't make it any more true - there's no need to be rude about Thai people - in fact foreign drivers ae some of the worst

 

 

here is a numbered list of things that need to be addressed -

The main pillars of the  Safe System can be defines as follows: - The 5 “E”s of road safety.

For over 3 decades Thailand has had various “Road Safety Action Plans” and has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ... but without them, Road Safety in Thailand is doomed.

 

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

 

 

If you like I can expand and expound on that list

[Thunglom]

34 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

They found the identity of the Canadian gunmen.

Sorry? What do you men?

[djtheoz]

This is not news. This tragedy is known for ages. I've witnessed the horror many times now.
And yet people feel safe with a paper mask on their face, sitting alone in their car or on their motorbike.

 

Priorities. 

[Bobydog]

8 hours ago, DezLez said:

I believe that the figures for deaths resulting from road accidents in Thailand are only of those pronounced dead at the scene and do not include those who die later as a result of their injuries which means the actual fatality figures are even higher/worse!

That doesn't surprise me, no training, no care, no licence and sweet <deleted> all oversite by Police, the administration in general and the People who took over the Country in 2014 and whose main purpose is to fill their own pockets and to hell with the Thai people who they claim to care for..

Chuck in a healthy dose of mal administration along with the high suicide rate and they are no better than what the Russians are doing in .the  Ukraine

 

.

[Perhaps2more]

No money to be had for politicians by improving the situation. Welcome to Thailand, The land of smiles if they happen to like your face.

[PETERTHEEATER]

4 hours ago, TheScience said:

I'm almost smacked 2-3 times a week on the footpath.

Walk on foot paths? That's dangerous, you could be knocked down by a motorcycle. Best walk in the road, it's safer......????

 

[xeniv23]

About 6 years ago I had a bicycle accident at only walking pace.  I ended up landing on the crown of my head on the only rock around.  Fortunately, I won't throw a leg over a bike without a bike helmet on.  The force of the blow was such that I had the imprint of the air holes in the helmet were contused into my scalp.  Took a few days for that to fade.  I had a severe concussion, vomiting, dizzy, blurred vision.  Passersby called 911 and I spent the night in the hospital and a week in bed before I was able to walk normally.  

 

I live in Chalong on Phuket.  I drive here and find it sporting but I drove in Russia and Ukraine as well so it was not so much of a shock for me here.  What is shocking though, are the numbers of people without helmets.  Thai and Farang alike.  People have no idea how fragile your basic brain housing unit really is.  I watch the young guys on "big" bikes go blasting through, weaving and following just a few feet behind traffic.  I drop back slowly so I won't be directly involved in the wreck.  Once in Bangkok that was a good move and the motorcyclist, sans helmet, did not survive it.  You could just see the inevitability of it all and were helpless to do anything about it except avoid.  I wish everyone who rides without a helmet could see those brains leaking onto the pavement and the unseeing eyes staring wide at the sky.  

[Bangkok Barry]

29 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

there's no need to be rude about Thai people - in fact foreign drivers ae some of the worst

What planet do you live on? Only someone who has rose-coloured glasses or has never been to Thailand can state that foreign drivers are worse than Thais. In the seven years that I have lived on a long straight road in the countryside there have been something like 20 accidents - I've lost count of the actual number - within 300 metres of my house. They have included death, amputations, long term coma, and cars and pickups and lorries in the roadside ditch. 

 

Not long ago I came within centimetres of being killed when I was standing by the road outside my house and a pickup came up behind me, so far over on the wrong side that it was on the so-called bike lane and so close as it went by racing another that I felt the heat of the engine. So please forgive me if I'm rude.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, xeniv23 said:

About 6 years ago I had a bicycle accident at only walking pace.  I ended up landing on the crown of my head on the only rock around.  Fortunately, I won't throw a leg over a bike without a bike helmet on.  The force of the blow was such that I had the imprint of the air holes in the helmet were contused into my scalp.  Took a few days for that to fade.  I had a severe concussion, vomiting, dizzy, blurred vision.  Passersby called 911 and I spent the night in the hospital and a week in bed before I was able to walk normally.  

 

I live in Chalong on Phuket.  I drive here and find it sporting but I drove in Russia and Ukraine as well so it was not so much of a shock for me here.  What is shocking though, are the numbers of people without helmets.  Thai and Farang alike.  People have no idea how fragile your basic brain housing unit really is.  I watch the young guys on "big" bikes go blasting through, weaving and following just a few feet behind traffic.  I drop back slowly so I won't be directly involved in the wreck.  Once in Bangkok that was a good move and the motorcyclist, sans helmet, did not survive it.  You could just see the inevitability of it all and were helpless to do anything about it except avoid.  I wish everyone who rides without a helmet could see those brains leaking onto the pavement and the unseeing eyes staring wide at the sky.  

They just don't care.

 

I would like to see them serve time in an A&E as a form of education, rather than punishment.......but there are only a limited number of A&E's in the country.

[TropicalGuy]

3 hours ago, Thunglom said:

No - culture is an excuse used by cynics who on't understand roadsafey. The pint of road safety is it doesn't depend on human nature it admits ALL humans are fallible.

I Repeat : Road Safety is Not Compatible with Culture Here. Road Safety is not Natural so like Scuba Diving it requires Mindset & Training to Overcome Human Nature. Even with all possible statistical analysis, the necessary pre- training Mindset / Culture will just never be in place here. 

[Will B Good]

Just now, TropicalGuy said:

I Repeat : Road Safety is Not Compatible with Culture Here. Road Safety is not Natural so like Scuba Diving it requires Mindset & Training to Overcome Human Nature. Even with all possible statistical analysis, the necessary pre- training Mindset / Culture will just never be in place here. 

Interesting one....do Thai divers not rely on amulets rather than oxygen, timers and depth meters?

[Thunglom]

13 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

What planet do you live on? Only someone who has rose-coloured glasses or has never been to Thailand can state that foreign drivers are worse than Thais. In the seven years that I have lived on a long straight road in the countryside there have been something like 20 accidents - I've lost count of the actual number - within 300 metres of my house. They have included death, amputations, long term coma, and cars and pickups and lorries in the roadside ditch. 

 

Not long ago I came within centimetres of being killed when I was standing by the road outside my house and a pickup came up behind me, so far over on the wrong side that it was on the so-called bike lane and so close as it went by racing another that I felt the heat of the engine. So please forgive me if I'm rude.

I don't believe in racist interpretations and the Safe System has been shown to work.

As said personal anecdote is worthless and you simply don't understand how the Safe System works.

 

what is needed is a shift in paradigmaway from the archaic racist views of expats.

 

This is a different way of looking at collisions and road safety. The focus in all of these cases is to provide redundancy to a.) reduce the likelihood of a collision occurring, b.) mitigate the severity of an imminent collision, and c.)  provide life-saving response services to maximize survivability after the collision occurs. More broadly, the fault isn’t automatically assigned to the road user, should the unfortunate or unthinkable happen. The responsibility is shared among everyone who plays a role in the design of the road, the vehicles that traverse it, and the people within and without those vehicles. The road users are expected to be responsible, yes, but they aren’t expected to be perfect, because, being human, they never will be. They’re given rights–the rights to expect safe roadways and safe vehicles, and the rights to expect to live when they or their loved ones use these roadways.

This is the mentality behind a Safe System / Vision Zero approach. People are valuable, and we need to design systems to protect them, rather than to blame them for being imperfect whenever they inevitably behave like humans.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/transport/zero-road-deaths-and-serious-injuries_9789282108055-en

[Thunglom]

5 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

I Repeat : Road Safety is Not Compatible with Culture Here. Road Safety is not Natural so like Scuba Diving it requires Mindset & Training to Overcome Human Nature. Even with all possible statistical analysis, the necessary pre- training Mindset / Culture will just never be in place here. 

You realise you are using an oxymoronic example?

 

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

I don't believe in racist interpretations and the Safe System has been shown to work.

As said personal anecdote is worthless and you simply don't understand how the Safe System works.

I can see where you are coming from and can understand wanting be defensive......but Thais and driving are just beyond the pale.........it is criminal what happens here, day in day out on the roads.....

[ChaiyaTH]

56 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Putting numbers on that list doesn't make it any more true - there's no need to be rude about Thai people - in fact foreign drivers ae some of the worst

Foreign drivers are some of the worst? What a nonsense claim, they in fact understand the roads and logic hence they usually tend to drive faster and get around the clogged areas. I do am aware many Thais sometimes get scared by foreign drivers as they react faster and Thais expect them to stay within the danger zone.

 

Aside of drunk drivers I think it is mainly people driving slow and taking over illegally causing problems, even the people doing that get away safe most times. This is also the main issue for many of the smaller traffic jams.

 

A foreign driver is taught to think ahead and make decisions upfront, Thais often did not even decide or know to go straight, turn left or right, once already on the intersection.

 

I personally take my chances driving faster, and get around those clogged areas, to have the road for myself and drive with a chill.

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, Joules said:

I am quite the opposite after 15 years here.  The driving is the number one thing I absolutely love.  I used to get so many tickets back in my home country, not for unsafe behavior mind you, but simply for violations with no connection to safety.  Such as coming up to a stop sign where you can see miles in every direction with no traffic so you roll on through.  TICKET!!! 

 

Here, just don't hurt anybody else and you can do pretty much as you wish.  You can run red lights where there is no conflicting traffic, you can drive as fast as you wish, you can even drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid having to drive 2km to the next U-turn!  If one does get a ticket from one of those tax assessing cameras, just toss it in the trash!  I love this atmosphere of personal responsibility and freedom.  You are free to make your own decisions, but if you hurt someone, you are responsible. 

 

I simply cannot understand why foreigners come here and observe rational driving for the first time in their lives and think it is "unfriendly."  There are rude drivers everywhere, but I have found that the great lion's share Thai drivers are polite, helpful and courteous.  Much more so than where I came from.

 

I absolutely love this aspect of Thailand an hope it never changes.

Yes. No Rules here only Culture. Love It ( but no interest like Politics).

Govt Interface only when required. Following Road Traffic Rules here WILL get you killed (by rear- ender usually). I rarely stop on my m/bike. Traffic  Lights ? Roll straight through on a straight tee or left turn/ u turn/  left turn at crossroads. Not here to sit in Traffic …..

[blackshadow]

5 hours ago, apetryxx said:

I have never seen anything more inane than folks roaring around on a scooter with a face mask and no helmet.

i see it all the way down and up soi 8 off treppasit road Pattaya all thru the day !!!!

[TropicalGuy]

13 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Interesting one....do Thai divers not rely on amulets rather than oxygen, timers and depth meters?

Well that’s the thing. In Medicine & Scuba Diving & Flying, Thais override their un- modern Culture / Mindset to qualify to &  follow western standards ….. to be safe & avoid certain death.
But these are the top 1% in intelligence & discipline I suspect.

So WHY can’t they do SAME for Road Safety ? Well then you have the entire 100% demographic , 99% of which won’t override the “ couldn’t care less” selfish ancient Culture.