Visa Agent Catch

[FritsSikkink]

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Just an agent's fee, you are not bribing anyone,  and, yes, Immigration keeps out of it for 12 months, they don't screw over their agents who are providing part of their income.

You are bribing an official. That somebody else is handing over the money and does the talking doesn't clear you from breaking the law. Thought it was against forum rules to discus these things btw.

Edited March 28, 2022 by FritsSikkink

[blackshadow]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are bribing an official. That somebody else is handing over the money and does the talking doesn't clear you from breaking the law. Thought it was against forum rules to discus these things btw.

does it matter......corruption is rife in Thailand

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, clivebaxter said:

But there is no loophole around not getting the extension from the province you live in. All the ones I contacted can only get them from upcountry, I don't see how that can be legal. Then you are stuck doing the 90 day reports and re entry permits with the agent and paying over the odds there. OK if you are hard up, but foolish and risky if you have the funds anyway.

Most agents include sorting out the 90-day reports in the initial fee.

[Liverpool Lou]

54 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

That is not the case.

You can do a TM30 for change of address to where your living. 

Having said that many use the agent to do the reports.

Optional extra. 

...and frequently a free optional extra.    Most agents will suggest that you do not do the 90-day reports yourself but do it through them.  Many agents will also suggest not to be bothered about the reports because, come time for the next extension, any missed reports will be overlooked (by their IO) and fresh reporting dates can be reinstated 90 days after the new extension.

[Liverpool Lou]

49 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I heard there's no money in the bank used for this method at all.

 

I heard you pay off your agent, who in turn pays off the IO, and according to how the law is written they have the power to approve you based on money in the bank, OR any other criteria they see fit. Heh.

There is a financial transaction involved with most agent applications, it's in and out of your account very quickly.

[xylophone]

7 hours ago, JimTripper said:

So just a bribe and immigration overlooks how long the money is in the account??

 

It's for a retirement visa, and would normally need to sit there.

Jim, this has been covered time and time again on forums like this and there are the two schools of thought, which I won't go into now, however, on one particular thread a poster was able to post part of the "rules and regulations" regarding the 800 K funds in the bank, and the paragraph read something like this, "the senior immigration officer at any immigration office has the discretion to grant an extension of stay based on retirement, without proof of funds being provided" (or words to that effect).

 

This is actually written into the code of practice/rules and regulations and is therefore not illegal.

 

A friend in my town has just used the local immigration office to do exactly this, and paid the agent the asked amount of 22,000 baht, and will be doing his own 90 day reports at the local office.

 

The ironic thing about it is that he has over 800 K baht in an account, but the immigration officer refused to accept it because it was in a long-term savings account, whereas they had accepted it in the past – – go figure.

 

He was actually given a phone number by another immigration officer, followed that up and now he has his retirement extension Visa done for him by an agent, and I'm thinking of doing exactly the same.......

[Liverpool Lou]

50 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

What happens if the agent goes out of business?

If he goes out of business after you've got your extension you just use a different one next time if you still want an agent.   If he goes out of business between getting your money and getting the extension, you're bugg_ered, I suppose, but has anyone ever had credible reports of that happening?   Why would an agent ever go out of business, if he's got your application and your fee he's obviously still in business, surely, what else is there to an agents business?  

[RedArmy]

6 hours ago, JimTripper said:

 

It may be easier long term to put the 800k baht in myself and forget it doing it the right way.

You would certainly sleep better at night for sure.

 

I have never used an agent but have contemplated it on many occasions - I am sure that many folk use them without any problems whatsoever & i guess its down to each ndividual to decide what's best for them.

 

I hope to apply for a Non O based on Retirement late May & have decided to use the 800,000 baht in the bank method & try to do everything myself.

 

Personally, i know i will sleep better at night doing it this way.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, clivebaxter said:

Surely you have to put the address on the TM30 in the province where you are moving from, which you never lived in, then have to do the TM30 every year. The agent must enter a fictional address on the extension form. is it the same one for all the customers? Seems like one lie after another

"Surely you have to put the address on the TM30 in the province where you are moving from, which you never lived in, then have to do the TM30 every year".

No, that's why an agent is used.

"Seems like one lie after another"

Obviously, that's why an agent is used.  The outcome, though is an extension!

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Well, I would be stuck without a visa at renewal and would need to use another agent and pay the hefty initial startup fee a second time. That's what I'm afraid of having to pay the 38k baht over and over if something went wrong.

So keep B800,000 in your bank, then.   No one's forcing you to use an agent.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, clivebaxter said:

Why not cut out the middle man and just offer the IO the cash up front? It's all legal and above board after all????

You try bribing in IO directly in the IO first and let us know how it goes.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are bribing an official. That somebody else is handing over the money and does the talking doesn't clear you from breaking the law. Thought it was against forum rules to discus these things btw.

The agent would be the party bribing the official.   

 

The arrangement has been going on for decades and, unless you have evidence to the contrary, so far, there have been no reports of anything going wrong, so why would you be so worried about it?

 

"Thought it was against forum rules to discus these things btw".

Why are you discussing them, then?

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Well, I would be stuck without a visa at renewal and would need to use another agent and pay the hefty initial startup fee a second time. That's what I'm afraid of having to pay the 38k baht over and over if something went wrong.

When you switch agents, there is no new "startup fee". Indeed, they may give you a promotional price to induce you to switch. The reason why the initial 15 months is much more expensive than the one-year renewals is because the first step is a Non O visa application (taken under consideration and involving approval from division headquarters) preliminary to the regular one-year extension.

[vinci]

Agent is a service, it's been around since the time you all were never here, what they do is their problem all you need to know is you got what you want, it will never go away, it will never get shut down, in their eye everything is legal as long as there are money to be made, you people think too much, life is much more then how you get your stay, there are two kind of student in a class, one that always raise their hand when teach ask a question and the other just stay silent in the back seat. 

[JimTripper]

3 hours ago, vinci said:

Agent is a service, it's been around since the time you all were never here, what they do is their problem all you need to know is you got what you want, it will never go away, it will never get shut down, in their eye everything is legal as long as there are money to be made, you people think too much, life is much more then how you get your stay, there are two kind of student in a class, one that always raise their hand when teach ask a question and the other just stay silent in the back seat. 

farang think too mut

[treetops]

13 hours ago, JimTripper said:

It may be easier long term to put the 800k baht in myself and forget it doing it the right way.

It may be easier but not financially prudent when that 800K baht would make more than the agents fees if invested wisely.  A strong reason for many to go the agent route.

[RedArmy]

10 minutes ago, treetops said:

It may be easier but not financially prudent when that 800K baht would make more than the agents fees if invested wisely.  A strong reason for many to go the agent route.

So what wise investment would you make with the 800,000 baht ?

[Raindancer]

7 hours ago, RedArmy said:

You would certainly sleep better at night for sure.

 

I have never used an agent but have contemplated it on many occasions - I am sure that many folk use them without any problems whatsoever & i guess its down to each ndividual to decide what's best for them.

 

I hope to apply for a Non O based on Retirement late May & have decided to use the 800,000 baht in the bank method & try to do everything myself.

 

Personally, i know i will sleep better at night doing it this way.

Well said.  Honesty is the way to go.  Just shows how many other dishonest Farings have no shame in writing on this forum how they circumvent the rules.    

[DrJack54]

48 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

So what wise investment would you make with the 800,000 baht ?

Rehashed old topic of discussion.

Personally I would dump it my super account with Cbus....

Minimal tax on growth is added bonus.

 

"The figures over 10 years include the two years of negative returns from the Global Financial Crisis. The Growth (Cbus My Super) option has returned an annual average of 9.24* per cent since inception in 1984."

[patman30]

something to consider
if you dont have the funds yourself to just sit there
maybe look at Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos
no point dealing with visas issues here which can change anytime

[JimTripper]

One thing I have learned here is that people in the tourist industry are not very smart (they don't know what they are doing), even if they have some sort of contact in immigration or the picture looks good.

 

If you are dealing with Einstein don't worry about it, but just figure they know what they were doing and hand over the passport. Having them see any kind of financial info just makes things worse.

 

Farang think too mut.

Edited March 28, 2022 by JimTripper

[treetops]

3 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

So what wise investment would you make with the 800,000 baht ?

Is that even a serious question?  The cost of an extension near me is 12,500 baht (no re-entry permit in that) which is just over 1.5% pa on the 800,000 THB, never mind the fee you have to pay even without an agent which would make it lower %age wise.  If you can't find that return yourself then employ someone who can.  You'll make it even after their fees.

[JimmyJ]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:11 PM, DrJack54 said:

Rehashed old topic of discussion.

Personally I would dump it my super account with Cbus....

Minimal tax on growth is added bonus.

 

"The figures over 10 years include the two years of negative returns from the Global Financial Crisis. The Growth (Cbus My Super) option has returned an annual average of 9.24* per cent since inception in 1984."

Just searched and found this:

https://www.cbussuper.com.au/

 

I assume that is what you refer to.

 

Is this only for Aussie citizens?

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

Just searched and found this:

https://www.cbussuper.com.au/

 

I assume that is what you refer to.

 

Is this only for Aussie citizens?

Yes that's correct.

The point I was making is that's just stock market shares.

Nothing brilliant about Cbus.

Point is stick 800k in a basic investment such as managed funds and that would be your return..

I can understand why some folk do not keep 800k in a Thai bank account. 

[Neeranam]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:05 AM, steve187 said:

using an agent to fund the money is a back door way to obtain extension, could come back and bite you in the a*se, once you have used an sgent its hard to stop using them as the financials are never seasoned correctly ie 800 for 5 months 400 rest of the year.

If an agent charges over around 3k baht, they are paying a rogue immigration officer to bypass immigration requirements. 

 

Why do you think they are asking 38k baht?  

 

DON'T be another illegal immigrant here and do it properly, it isn't hard. 

[Neeranam]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:00 AM, BritTim said:

As far as agent supported extensions are concerned, the official is guilty of abuse of discretion in allowing the extension without funds seasoning (again, the money will be in the bank for one day) but the procedure is technically legal.

Interesting. Do you really think the immigration officer is not getting some of this 38k for the visa?

Any money given to a police officer is illegal. 

 

[Neeranam]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:36 PM, xylophone said:

The ironic thing about it is that he has over 800 K baht in an account, but the immigration officer refused to accept it because it was in a long-term savings account, whereas they had accepted it in the past – – go figure.

 

He was actually given a phone number by another immigration officer, followed that up and now he has his retirement extension Visa done for him by an agent, and I'm thinking of doing exactly the same.......

This is called extortion and foreigners who don't report the officer are adding to the problem. Grow a backbone! 

[BritTim]

27 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting. Do you really think the immigration officer is not getting some of this 38k for the visa?

Any money given to a police officer is illegal. 

There are many (some believe deliberate) loopholes in Thailand's anti corruption legislation. Most important, there is no law that criminalises the provision of gifts to close family members of officials, even if it is clear that those gifts were inducements to the official to abuse his discretion to grant some kind of favour. So, in answer to your question, if the official is careful, I do not think the official is receiving money from the agent. However, the agent may well be very generous to the official's wife, and (naturally) the official's wife will tend to help her husband out with expenses when necessary.

 

As far as you, yourself, are concerned if you decide to use an agent, there is another huge loophole. An agent directly bribing an official to abuse his discretion is certainly illegal. However, when you pay a middleman to deal with the official on your behalf, there is no law criminalising your doing so.

 

I should stress that the above is a simplification of the Byzantine anti corruption legislation in Thailand. If there is a genuine desire to prosecute corrupt practices, there are certainly ways this can be achieved (often via the rules around officials being "unusually rich"). However, it is difficult, and rarely attempted.

[Neeranam]

I think ultimately it comes down to how much integrity you have. 

I've heard a lot of hypocrisy from some good friends who criticize corruption in other areas, yet use an agent to secure their visa or pay the IO a few thousand baht so they don't have to inconvenience themselves travelling to Bangkok to get a letter from their embassy. Granted, they are being extorted to a degree but they could stand up for themselves and be consistent in their prioritizing of their personal values.  Many illegal immigrants here are ignorant that they are actually that, as they actually have a visa stamp, albeit gotten from another province by illegal means. 

If you have got a visa this way by paying an agent, best to keep quiet about it. 

[Mike Teavee]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:46 AM, RichardColeman said:

Totally nuts price , atleast 10k over on 15 months and 2-3 on per year

Maneerat have just quoted a friend 25K for the initial Non-Imm O + 1st years extension (total of 15 months)... 

 

Edit: He was also quoted 38K at another place but this included the opening of a bank account for which Maneerat charge 4,700 THB, so the difference in price is 8,300 THB not 13,000.

 

On 3/28/2022 at 6:35 AM, HappyExpat57 said:

Using an agent should be a last resort. I know people who have used agents for years and TO DATE there have been no issues, but as previously reported in this thread, if the powers that be decide to change the rules, you could find yourself in a tough spot.

I meet all of the requirements (including keeping 800K in the bank) for extending a Non-Imm O but use an agent because I want to make the process as painless as possible for me, it costs 8,000 THB for a 12 month extension & (IMHO) is money well spent, others may prefer to spend their money differently... to each his own... 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mike Teavee