Living Will (...without witnesses)?

[sawadee1947]

1 minute ago, TigerandDog said:

you let a sealed envelope be registered. - not absolutely necessary. You can keep under lock and key at your won premises if you wish, or somewhere else that you consider safe.

 

No Thai Format. No Translation! - WRONG on both counts. A will for your Thai estate MUST be written in your native language AND translated to Thai, AND it MUST follow the Thai will format. Most Thai authorities will not accept a will written in your native language only and not following the Thai format.

 

Have had the widows of a few farang friends find this out the hard way.

Yeah, there is always a friend of a friend of a friend in those stories????.

I can only speak for that what I did with my wife together as our last will.

If you prefer to listen to those om friends it's Up to you.

A friend of a friend told me "you can't fix stupidity"

Have a good day.????

[TigerandDog]

5 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

No, I'm not. I did this procedure already.

It's obvious that you don't have any knowledge.........in this case ????

I do have experience in this, and if you have done as you say then you are creating one hell of a lot of trouble for the beneficiaries of your Thai estate. Because you are a foreigner, whether you are married to a Thai or not, the Thai inheritance rules do not automatically apply. Once your embassy is notified of your passing, if there is no properly certified Thai will, the embassy will seek out any living relatives in your home country and THEY will receive your estate even if you don't want them to.

 

I talk from experience with this as 2 of my farang friends did not have a will in the Thai format or translated to Thai, just written in the same format as their home country. In the end their wives received nothing. The entire estate was divied equally amongst the living relatives back in their home countries.

 

Therefore it is you that has no knowledge in this case, just an assumption as to what you believe is correct. Their have been numerous threads on this forum on this very topic, and they all stress the point for a properly completed Thai will that is translated to Thai.

[connda]

I got my from Chiang Mai Legal and Business - both in Thai and English.
The owner Banjob has a detailed template which is written according to Thai law.

www.cmlegal-business.com
Email: [email protected]

Edited March 30, 2022 by connda

[TigerandDog]

3 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Yeah, there is always a friend of a friend of a friend in those stories????.

I can only speak for that what I did with my wife together as our last will.

If you prefer to listen to those om friends it's Up to you.

A friend of a friend told me "you can't fix stupidity"

Have a good day.????

your stupidity is beyond fixing. Nothing to do with a friend of a friend. It's what is required if you want your Thai wife to inherit your Thai estate trouble free.

[sawadee1947]

1 minute ago, TigerandDog said:

I do have experience in this, and if you have done as you say then you are creating one hell of a lot of trouble for the beneficiaries of your Thai estate. Because you are a foreigner, whether you are married to a Thai or not, the Thai inheritance rules do not automatically apply. Once your embassy is notified of your passing, if there is no properly certified Thai will, the embassy will seek out any living relatives in your home country and THEY will receive your estate even if you don't want them to.

 

I talk from experience with this as 2 of my farang friends did not have a will in the Thai format or translated to Thai, just written in the same format as their home country. In the end their wives received nothing. The entire estate was divied equally amongst the living relatives back in their home countries.

 

Therefore it is you that has no knowledge in this case, just an assumption as to what you believe is correct. Their have been numerous threads on this forum on this very topic, and they all stress the point for a properly completed Thai will that is translated to Thai.

Again and again.......

A friend told me...55555.

Lad, do want you want but sometimes it's good to shut up.

Your parents never told you ????????????????

[sawadee1947]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

I got my from Chiang Mai Legal and Business - both in Thai and English.
The owner Banjob has a detailed template which is written according to Thai law.

www.cmlegal-business.com
Email: [email protected]

You'll get your share in this business?????

[TigerandDog]

Just now, sawadee1947 said:

Again and again.......

A friend told me...55555.

Lad, do want you want but sometimes it's good to shut up.

Your parents never told you ????????????????

you really aren't capable of accepting facts as presented. has nothing to do with a friend of a friend. So perhaps you need to go and do some proper research, and then come back and apologize when you ascertain that you are wrong.

[sawadee1947]

4 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

your stupidity is beyond fixing. Nothing to do with a friend of a friend. It's what is required if you want your Thai wife to inherit your Thai estate trouble free.

Ouch now getting angry and offending? 

A friend of a friend told me that happens often to people if they realise to be on the wrong path having made mistakes ????

 

 

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

you really aren't capable of accepting facts as presented. has nothing to do with a friend of a friend. So perhaps you need to go and do some proper research, and then come back and apologize when you ascertain that you are wrong.

You are not presenting any facts. Just what you heard from a friend of a friend.????

[PeachCH]

Written by hand don't need any witnesses. You can deposit at your embassy. 

[Grusa]

4 hours ago, zenobit said:

THREE parties? Me, the witnesses and who is the third party? The lawyer?

The witnesses are two of the three, dummy. 

[Richard 2020]

All "Living Will" that you can download on the Internet are not legally valid! I have looked into this for a long time and have lived in Thailand for more than 30 years.  
So it only goes like this!
I made mine in Bangkok Pattaya Hospital!
It is also recognized only the in-house contract!!!
I was there before with one from the WWW. Not valid!
So pick up the forms there, fill out everything you want.
I want so for example no life-extending measures!
Only pain treatment until the end!
Then 2 witnesses must sign and attach your ID card as a copy!  Can not do without! But that can make anyone you / woman knows!
With it to the BPH 
There a copy is deposited and the original goes at home in the safe!

Hope that helps you further 
Richard

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Richard 2020]

Do not confuse : A "Living WILL" is not a " Last Will ".

 

A living will is a written, legal document that spells out medical treatments you would and would not want to be used to keep you alive, as well as your preferences for other medical decisions, such as pain management or organ donation. In determining your wishes, think about your values.

 

Richard

[Tropposurfer]

I would suggest to all here, (if you don't have these already go get them asap) both a 'living will', and a 'last will and testament' made up by a decent lawyer, and in formatting consistent with Thai law.

As stated by another poster, they are not the same thing at all.

I too made a 'living will' if I become incapable of directing my care, and DNR (do not resuscitate) criteria should I be permanently brain dead so as not to kept alive any longer than necessary along with instructions to donate my body to science.

The cost of such a living will is negligible.

 

Considering the ramifications for you should you be left incapable to speak for yourself, or if you don't survive for those that are left behind, and if you wish to provide as securely as you can once you're dead for those you love and care for then a solid, drawn-up will needs to be done. 

 

If you're reading this and someone who's so asset poor that you have little to leave, maybe nothing but a motor scooter and a mobile phone then even these will be a great gift for a poor Thai you may know.

 

Maybe there's a pension that can be claimed by ones legal spouses upon death (depends on the country from whence your pension comes as to whether they care eligible to receive such a thing). This needs to be checked with your home country and sorted with your govt's social services department IN WRITING AND put in the will.

 

As for witnessing a 'living' or 'last will and testament', most legal firms, your dentist or regular GP, or someone of reasonable reputation and standing with adequate articulation skills and education will do as witnesses and MUST be present and sight you signing the will.

As others have said; these witnesses are simply to witness YOUR signing the will/s not to have any knowledge of its contents.

Legal folks witness the signing wills all day long, so finding witnesses is no biggie. 

 

To save processing and drafting of a 'last will and testament' make out clear bullet lists of your assets with clear identifying e.g. (serial numbers) photos and maybe a flash-drive of the photos as well as these hard copies.

Have a list of all the people you wish to leave assets, and their contact info.

It's always a good idea to let these people know in writing that you intend to leave something from your estate (especially if they are across the globe or not regularly spoken with) to them.

You don't have to do this as it is up to you if you wish to declare to them this intention prior to death or the exact nature or not of the asset being left to them, the lawyer who makes up and hold a copy of your will be in knowledge of these people of course. I did but not all know the exact things I will leave to them.

 

For the lawyers offices have with you all the deeds to houses, cars, bank account identification's bank books, (cover pages of bank statements) etc, vehicle original ownership papers & rego papers, photos of all items e.g. jewellery, watches, golf clubs for the lawyers to copy and have certified and to be kept on-file at their offices along with a copy of your living, and last will.

 

A 'last will and testament' is not a simple matter (I found the 'living will'  far less complex).

But I am much more clear and happy to be as sure my death will not be any more confusing and painful (especially for my darling one), and possibly contestable now all is well and clearly done. 

 

Keep copies of both wills at home, and that others know where they are!

 

If the wife or spouse is cool then she can be named The Executor in the will (backup Executor also needs to be named), or someone else should you prefer.

If the missus is organised let her have a copy to store somewhere else - maybe at one of her families homes, or a bank deposit box.

If you have a close, sane trusted family member elsewhere e.g. siblings or other kin maybe O/S send a copy of your last will to them too.

It's crucially important to have fully certified copies in several places in case of loss, theft, flood, fire etc, and in case someone tries a swifty once you've fallen off the perch, AND that others know these exist and where they are.

I went through this process not long ago as my Australian wills needed to be changed (to comply with Thai forma criteria), and translated since I now live here as my primary residence as a retiree.

 

 

 

[zenobit]

Is anyone surprised if I say that after reading the posts on my topic "Living Will (...without witnesses?)" I'm more confused than before?

 

I'm happy about the lively participation on the subject, but unfortunately I can't say that it helped to solve the questions ... on the contrary: the numerous different claims about the legal basis for the procedure of creating a "Living Wills" don't make it easier for me than I had hoped.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, zenobit said:

I think there is a misunderstanding here: I am not talking about a "Last Will/Testament" but about a "Ling Will Declaration".

If you mean as regards letting you die rather than taking medical means to prevent it I understand it's not an option if one ends up in hospital in LOS.

You should get legal advice as to such.

 

I don't see any way of making one without relatives/ NOK other than paying a lawyer. You need someone to have the legal authority over you if incapacitated. I doubt any Dr will accept a bit of paper on it's own.

[1FinickyOne]

15 hours ago, zenobit said:

it is almost impossible for me to find two trustworthy witnesses.

I don't know that the witnesses have to be trustworthy - I had it done at my lawyers office and it was witnessed by people I don't know. I think it is more a legal formality.

[Puccini]

17 hours ago, zenobit said:

...Hence my question:
Is it possible to create a living will by hand instead of using one of the available download templates and then have the finished letter notarized by the German honorary consul in Pattaya instead of the signatures of two witnesses?...

Yes, this is the way to go. The consul verifies your identity, you sign the document in his presence and he will certify the authenticity of your signature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Puccini]

For those who are unsure about what a living will is, read this:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/livingwill.asp

 

I seem to remember having read once on this forum that the concept of a "living will" is not part of Thai law and that Thai hospitals or other health care facilities may not respect the wishes expressed in such document. 

 

@zenobit   You may want to inquire about this on the health forum:

https://aseannow.com/forum/23-health-and-medicine/

 

[Wullie Mercer]

Here is a copy of a "living" will I got from a friend who had it made up after an other friend had problems getting a life support machine turned off. I think this is what you are looking for..

Living Will English.doc

[TigerandDog]

14 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Ouch now getting angry and offending? 

A friend of a friend told me that happens often to people if they realise to be on the wrong path having made mistakes ????

 

 

OK if you want to continue to believe that your right that's your prerogative. After all you won't be around to see the the disappointment your wife encounters when your worthless piece of paper is not accepted by the authorities.

[brianthainess]

Sorry I have not read all posts, but why not use your Doctor and say a nurse as your witnesses for a living will ? after all its really all about what happens when you are immobilised / or very sick with no hope of recovery normally. 

[TigerandDog]

14 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

You are not presenting any facts. Just what you heard from a friend of a friend.????

I never said I heard from a friend of a friend, that's you being incapable of reading and comprehending plain english.

 

I said 2 of MY friends wives missed out on their inheritance because they did not have a Thai format last will and testament in their native language and translated to Thai, and duly witnessed. Their living relatives in their home country inherited their estates. Those are FACTS not HEARSAY.

 

You can go on believing you're correct, but it will be your wife that suffers and gets nothing after you have passed if you only have the worthless piece of paper you're calling a will.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, zenobit said:

Is anyone surprised if I say that after reading the posts on my topic "Living Will (...without witnesses?)" I'm more confused than before?

 

I'm happy about the lively participation on the subject, but unfortunately I can't say that it helped to solve the questions ... on the contrary: the numerous different claims about the legal basis for the procedure of creating a "Living Wills" don't make it easier for me than I had hoped.

It's not that difficult.  Follow Tropposurfer's post.

[sawadee1947]

5 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

OK if you want to continue to believe that your right that's your prerogative. After all you won't be around to see the the disappointment your wife encounters when your worthless piece of paper is not accepted by the authorities.

You heard this from your friend, didn't you?

[sawadee1947]

5 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

I never said I heard from a friend of a friend, that's you being incapable of reading and comprehending plain english.

 

I said 2 of MY friends wives missed out on their inheritance because they did not have a Thai format last will and testament in their native language and translated to Thai, and duly witnessed. Their living relatives in their home country inherited their estates. Those are FACTS not HEARSAY.

 

You can go on believing you're correct, but it will be your wife that suffers and gets nothing after you have passed if you only have the worthless piece of paper you're calling a will.

.......and you were allowed to read the will? Wow, really good friends indeed ????

[Promsak]

22 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

you let a sealed envelope be registered. - not absolutely necessary. You can keep under lock and key at your won premises if you wish, or somewhere else that you consider safe.

 

No Thai Format. No Translation! - WRONG on both counts. A will for your Thai estate MUST be written in your native language AND translated to Thai, AND it MUST follow the Thai will format. Most Thai authorities will not accept a will written in your native language only and not following the Thai format.

 

Have had the widows of a few farang friends find this out the hard way.

Don' you also have to nominate someone as an executor?

[TigerandDog]

6 minutes ago, Promsak said:

Don' you also have to nominate someone as an executor?

exactly, and the will must be witnessed. However, let the individual who thinks he knows better, and who is incapable of reading and comprehending basic english do as he wishes. His wife will eventually find out that the piece of paper that he thinks is a legitimate will is just a worthless piece of paper, and that she'll inherit nothing if he has living relatives in his home country.

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, Promsak said:

Don' you also have to nominate someone as an executor?

If your house is burnt out of different reasons it makes no sense to keep it there.

Indeed however you have to name an executor who you trust. 

[Jai Dee]

A couple of reported flame and troll posts have been removed.

 

Keep the discussion civil please.