Home EV car charger

[Longwood50]

18 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Well, I've replaced a few engines (and rebuilt a couple more) in ten-year old vehicles and gotten significantly more useful life out them. I've also replaced batteries in all manor of equipment which typically doubles the life over and over.

I also replaced many engines.  I owned a delivery service.  It was cheaper to replace with a used engine than buy a replacement vehicle.  

However these vehicles after 10 years often had very high mileage on them.  While they were serviceable for deliveries, the body, interior and suspension system all showed the wear and tear of 10 years of service. 

The same will be true for electric vehicles.  Can you replace the battery packs.  Sure  Will it make economic sense, probably not.  Even if the battery packs can be done cheaply, which I doubt, people will find it more beneficial to upgrade to a newer car with fewer mileage and better technolgy than sinking repair money in an old EV.  
 

[Longwood50]

On 4/5/2022 at 11:16 AM, Bandersnatch said:

Secondhand EV prices are rising in the west

With the chip shortage all used car prices have shot up.  Not a surprise that EV have gone up.  All boats rise when the tide comes in. EV are not going up any faster than ICE. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

You are correct, it is actually more stupid than that.  The same people who are promoting electric vehicles are the same ones who object to more power plants being built. 

And in fact shuttering nuclear and other facilities in hopes that some new technology will come along. 

 

But it really makes no difference to them, they're rich, so they get to feel good while never suffering the effects of their polices. They'll still get whatever they want and when the poor can no longer afford to drive it will just be less traffic for them. It's a win-win. 

 

 

[macahoom]

1 hour ago, eezergood said:

or way down south - 1 in Phuket

 

Maybe only one from EA in Phuket. But there are many others: Central has two, Porto de Phuket has three, all of the MG dealerships have at least one and lots of hotels have charging stations.

 

You only need one to charge your car.

Edited April 6, 2022 by macahoom

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, eezergood said:

or way down south - 1 in Phuket

 

As already stated, if you can't find, you're not looking.

4 MG

Accor chain hotels have them

Malls have them

[Yellowtail]

27 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I also replaced many engines.  I owned a delivery service.  It was cheaper to replace with a used engine than buy a replacement vehicle.  

However these vehicles after 10 years often had very high mileage on them.  While they were serviceable for deliveries, the body, interior and suspension system all showed the wear and tear of 10 years of service. 

The same will be true for electric vehicles.  Can you replace the battery packs.  Sure  Will it make economic sense, probably not.  Even if the battery packs can be done cheaply, which I doubt, people will find it more beneficial to upgrade to a newer car with fewer mileage and better technolgy than sinking repair money in an old EV.  
 

It's your position that a privately owned EV would have a similar milage and wear & tear of delivery vehicle? You can't mean that.

 

I think that replacing the battery and upgrading the electronics/technology will be much easier and more reliable than replacing ICEs, sensors & transmissions. 

 

But it comes down to cost and whether people want them. I imagine independent shops selling used/recycled cells will be spring up everywhere, this has already started. Once aftermarket cells become more available prices should come down considerably. 

 

Make no mistake, EVs are being mandated. If you drive in a deep blue city/state, it won't be long before you're compelled to drive an EV. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

And in fact shuttering nuclear and other facilities in hopes that some new technology will come along. 

 

But it really makes no difference to them, they're rich, so they get to feel good while never suffering the effects of their polices. They'll still get whatever they want and when the poor can no longer afford to drive it will just be less traffic for them. It's a win-win. 

 

 

You don't need to be rich, to spend ฿761k on a car, as so many spend that and more on ICEs, or ฿37k for a motorcycle, and actually cheaper than most popular ICE models sold.

 

I've yet to read, hear 1 valid argument against owning an EV.  Motorcycles have removable batteries, so no charging port at apartment / condo complex doesn't even float.

 

Plenty of price points for scooters & cars between ฿37k & ฿761k.

 

฿400k & ฿500k ... 170 km range

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by KhunLA

[Longwood50]

57 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And in fact shuttering nuclear and other facilities in hopes that some new technology will come along

Yes and in the meantime, China is building numerous coal fired plants to meet their energy needs and buying the coal from the USA.  

This idea that electric cars don't also have huge enviornmental impact is nonsensicle.  

You have power plants that must generate electricity and use some sort of fuel to do so.  You have transmission lines that must be built using cables and wire to send the electric.  If you use solar panels they contain dangerous chemicals and now the cost to discard them is far lower than recycling them and that is assuming that the owner is going to be so dilegent to send them to a recycling plant.  One look at the garbage here in Thailand shows you that people are irresponsible with discading trash.  Finally, the batteries themselves use lithium which it takes huge amounts of water to mine.  The production of the battery has enviornmental impact and went spent, here again will the batteries be recycled or just tossed in the landfill. 

One thing is for sure, the grid in the USA already is insufficient.  If a substantial portion of the public converts to electric cars, the system will not be able to handle it.  

I know this irrespective of whatever benefits that the advocates of EV's try and peddle, the inconvenience of having to be tethered to a recharging cord far outweighs any benefits for me.  Once we had gas lines where people queued up for hours to get a refill that took only minutes.  I can't imagine if their was ever an electric outage the lines to queue up for a recharge that takes 30 minutes.  Remember that many EV owners in major metro areas live in apartments and those will not have charging stations so they will rely on commerical stations.  A nightmare waiting to happen. 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Yes, so yet another great benefit from owning a EV car is not only do you get to spend money on electric service for your car charger since the sun does not always provide you with enough energy, you get to "invest" some more money on solar panels 

And of course lets not forget those panels don't last forever but rather cost more to recycle than build new so they end up in the landfills.  But I am sure Thailand would never throw hazardous trash away.  

 

- I have only ever charged my EV from solar

- I installed the solar system as part of the house build designed for the house to be off-grid. The EV is powered by excess solar in the middle of the day.

 

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Thailand would never throw hazardous trash away

This proves that you know nothing about solar in Thailand. For most Thais new solar panels are expensive that is why there is an active market for used panels here, more so than in the west.

 

 

[Longwood50]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You don't need to be rich, to spend ฿761k on a car, as so many spend that and more on ICEs

I am not sure what EV you can buy new for 761K baht.  It must be a pregnant roller skate.  

Tesla has 70% of the USA market so those hardly sell for 761k baht. 

EV's may make some economic sense for those who drive a very large number of kilometers each year and their driving is predominately city driving.  

Those who drive modest amounts of km each year will never recoup the additional cost of buying the EV version versus its equivalent ICE. 

A total car "cost" is not just its fuel consumption.  It is what you paid for the vehicle and what it is worth when you go to dispose of it.  A car can cost 2 million baht but if its resale is 1.4 million baht it only cost you 600,000 to use it.  Conversely if an EV cost 1.5 million baht but it is worth only 500,000 baht when you sell it , it cost you 1 million baht to use it. 

For now, EV depreciate faster than ICE.  Here is what an autotrader which is a large used car site in the USA said about EV's If the data from iSeeCars is correct, the loss of 52% in the first years is huge.  If anything it makes a case to buy a used EV after it is being sold at a discount.  

Many people use to do that with the luxury brand Lincoln in the USA.  They were very good cars but they did not hold their value in resale since most of the people who were buyers of Lincoln's were older and shunned away from previously owned Lincoln's.  That made them a bargain for someone who was willing to buy them used.  

As repeatedly said, if a person is so inclined to "want" an EV then go ahead.  But peddling this notion that you "save money" is just trying to falsely justify the purchase.  Also, this idea that EV's are "green" is equally false.  It changes the pollution to the mining, the electric plants, the battery manufacturing company, and to the battery disposal.  

Many people buy vehicles that don't make economic sense.  I see people here in Thailand who buy a Lexus that costs The same is true with people who buy EV's it is a preference not a sound economic decision. 

 

RX 350 F SPORT Performance

From 6,850,000 THB

That is exhorbitant given the identical vehicle in the USA cost $$50,125 or about $1.6 million baht. 

[Longwood50]

3 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

This proves that you know nothing about solar in Thailand. For most Thais new solar panels are expensive that is why there is an active market for used panels here, more so than in the west.

No it is that you ignore that all panels eventually will go bad or are you trying to spout the nonsense that they last forever.  Used panels may have value if they are still serviceable not when they are junk. 

[KhunLA]

33 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

This proves that you know nothing about solar in Thailand. For most Thais new solar panels are expensive that is why there is an active market for used panels here, more so than in the west.

Or the price of EVs ... ????

 

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." — Abraham Lincoln

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Or the price of EVs ... ????

Maybe somebody needs to start a discussion about the advantages of diesel powered golf carts ???? 

[KhunLA]

36 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

No it is that you ignore that all panels eventually will go bad or are you trying to spout the nonsense that they last forever.  Used panels may have value if they are still serviceable not when they are junk. 

I'll start worrying about the panels when I'm 92 yrs old....

.... picture worth 1000 words ... nuff said

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Maybe somebody needs to start a discussion about the advantages of diesel powered golf carts ???? 

I don't know why they bother ... my ignore list gets longer & longer with every conversation ????

[Crossy]

17 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I told MG to supply the wall box, but it will stay boxed up for when we sell the car down the road.  I’m hoping it’s happy being charged slower than 7Kw.

 

We are in much the same position, were MG actually happy to supply but not install the charge box??

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

We are in much the same position, were MG actually happy to supply but not install the charge box??

They said so, at least that was my interpretation, she didn’t speak English and my Thai is just passable.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

We are in much the same position, were MG actually happy to supply but not install the charge box??

My MG wall box was in the boot/trunk of the car when we picked it up. 

[Longwood50]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I'll start worrying about the panels when I'm 92 yrs old....

Obviously you should go in now for some medical attention, its obvious that your are not thinking straight. 

The point is not YOUR LIFETIME.  Did it never strike you that there are generations of people who might live past your date of death that will be impacted with all the people around the world and in particular in Thailand throw their junk solar panels in the trash. 

[Longwood50]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

This proves that you know nothing about solar in Thailand. For most Thais new solar panels are expensive that is why there is an active market for used panels here, more so than in the west.

This proves that you lack any common sense.  The point is that all solar panels will eventually fail.  The fact that they have a market here is Thailand or anywheres else while they are still serviceable is immaterial. 

It is like saying there is an active market for cars that are used but ommitting the fact that the car is 20 years old, has 1 million km on it, and has been in an serious accident.  Junk is junk and the world will throw it out when it is no longer serviceable.  

Actually the junk car will be more valuable then the junk solar panel.  At least scrap metal has a value. 

[VocalNeal]

5 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Did it never strike you that there are generations of people who might live past your date of death that will be impacted with all the people around the world and in particular in Thailand throw their junk solar panels in the trash. 

When there are enough in the rubbish, a next generation person will invent a way to process them.

[Longwood50]

Just now, VocalNeal said:

When there are enough in the rubbish, a next generation person will invent a way to process them.

Oh kind of like what you see along the sides of the street right now?   This is rubbish and so was your thought that "somehow" the future generation would solve it when it shows they cant even deal with non-toxic trash strewn throughout the world now. 


 

 

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

You are correct, it is actually more stupid than that.  The same people who are promoting electric vehicles are the same ones who object to more power plants being built. 

Yet another falsehood from you. They don't object to more power plants being built. In fact, they support more power plants being built. Lots more. Just not plants powered by fossil fuels.

[StevieAus]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:44 AM, Bandersnatch said:

I agree "the electric grid was never designed with charging cars in mind" It was also never designed with the 21st Century or Climate Change in mind. In Thailand air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury.

 

Domestic chargers are all AC not fast DC. They are restricted to 7kW in the vast majority of cases. A few EVs now come with on-board 3-phase 11 and 22kW chargers but they require to be connected to a 3-Phase grid connection.  Plugging an 11kW 3-phase charger into a single phase grid connection would give you only 3.6kW if even worked at all. As domestic three-phase is quite rare in Thailand it is unlikely that 3-phase on-board chargers will be sold here as is the case in the UK. 

 

TOU rate electricity will mean that most EV drivers will charge at night when rates are cheap and demand is low. Variable tariffs which are common in most developed countries will come eventually where EVs will intelligently charge when rates are cheap and via V2G sell back to the grid when rates are high helping to stabilise the grid. 

 

“As domestic three-phase is quite rare in Thailand”

Not my understanding and not where I live in the North.

[Bandersnatch]

24 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

“As domestic three-phase is quite rare in Thailand”

Not my understanding and not where I live in the North.

I will defer to @Crossy on this one. It has been my experience that PEA installs single-phase as standard and three-phase has to be requested and paid for and so is not common, but my experience in this mater is not extensive.  

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, StevieAus said:

TOU rate electricity will mean that most EV drivers will charge at night when rates are cheap and demand is low.

Yes for now.  However when the power companies have to build more power plants and improve the grid to meet the demand do you really think that electric rates are going to remain as low as they are now?  Particularly when the power companies know they have you by the throat with you requiring their service to now charge your car as well as power your home.  

 

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You don't need to be rich, to spend ฿761k on a car, as so many spend that and more on ICEs, or ฿37k for a motorcycle, and actually cheaper than most popular ICE models sold.

 

I've yet to read, hear 1 valid argument against owning an EV.  Motorcycles have removable batteries, so no charging port at apartment / condo complex doesn't even float.

 

Plenty of price points for scooters & cars between ฿37k & ฿761k.

You seem to be confused. I am not now nor have I ever argued against anyone buying an EV, i think it's great that people that want them can buy them.

 

I am against compelling people to buy EVs. Clear? 

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

- I have only ever charged my EV from solar

- I installed the solar system as part of the house build designed for the house to be off-grid. The EV is powered by excess solar in the middle of the day.

Yes, an EV is perfect for you, for someone in a condo with no place put solar panels or even plug in an Ev, not so much.

 

8 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

This proves that you know nothing about solar in Thailand. For most Thais new solar panels are expensive that is why there is an active market for used panels here, more so than in the west.

But there is only a market for used panels that work. 

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Maytbe somebody needs to start a discussion about the advantages of diesel powered golf carts ???? 

The two-stroke Harley-Davidson golf carts were great and they still fetch big money when you can find them. 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Yet another falsehood from you. They don't object to more power plants being built. In fact, they support more power plants being built. Lots more. Just not plants powered by fossil fuels.

Exactly.