Home EV car charger

[zoolander]

We are thinking about buying a MG EV and wondered what it needs for charging at home.

 

Will it need a dedicated circuit, if so what specs do we need. 

 

Also if charging at night and we use 2 air conditioners will this impact on the charging.

 

Thanks for any help

[Crossy]

My last information for MG is that they supply a 7kW charger. This will need a 40A circuit, there are some pretty specific requirements for protection, so it's best left to the contractor that MG will send to install for you.

 

Also, I believe they will not install unless you have a 30/100 meter! So it is time to talk to PEA/MEA if you have a 15/45.

 

I also understand that PEA will install a second 15/45 dedicated to the EV if a 30/100 isn't possible.

 

Compared with the EV charger a couple of A/Cs is not worth worrying about.

 

[zoolander]

42 minutes ago, Crossy said:

My last information for MG is that they supply a 7kW charger. This will need a 40A circuit, there are some pretty specific requirements for protection, so it's best left to the contractor that MG will send to install for you.

 

Also, I believe they will not install unless you have a 30/100 meter! So it is time to talk to PEA/MEA if you have a 15/45.

 

I also understand that PEA will install a second 15/45 dedicated to the EV if a 30/100 isn't possible.

 

Compared with the EV charger a couple of A/Cs is not worth worrying about.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply, appreciated

[steve187]

while we are on the subject of power for ev, what sort of solar set up would be required for day time charging

[OneMoreFarang]

In general it also depends on where you live and how many other people nearby have electric vehicles. The electric grid was never designed with charging cars in mind. Those cars need a lot of power and they need even more power if they should be charged fast. And worst case are very powerful cars which need even more power.

[Lacessit]

This is a quite detailed discussion of the EV recharging options, I assume the same physics apply in Thailand.

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

@zoolander I have an MG with the free MG wall box installed free by MG  - I won't call it  a charger at the onboard charger is actually part of the car. I will call it a wall box because it is a box and it is fitted to a wall.

 

The speed of the onboard charger determines how quickly the car will charge. Plugging a car with a 3.6kW onboard charger into a 7kW wall box will result in 3.6kW being delivered to the car. The technical name for the box is Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE). It is really just a controlled access point or fancy switch.

 

Here is a picture of the inside of the MG 7kW wall box fitted to my house.

 

The company that MG has selected to to install the wall boxes insists on a 30/100 meter connection -  most people like me only have 15/45. So many people simply install a second dedicated 15/45 meter for the wall box. You can then opt for time of use rate for charging an EV overnight. The off peak rate drops from about ฿4/kwh to ฿2.63, but the peak rate rises to ฿5.79.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Bandersnatch

[In Full Agreement]

3 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I will call it a wall box because it is a box and it is fitted to a wall.

 

 

Now that's calling a spade a spade.

[Bandersnatch]

16 hours ago, steve187 said:

while we are on the subject of power for ev, what sort of solar set up would be required for day time charging

@steve187 My house is off-grid and I charge my EV from my solar system, although I had a big fight with the company that MG had selected to to install the wall boxes as they said 1) Solar would not produce enough power 2) The fluctuating voltage produced by solar system would damage the wall box. After nearly a year of charging the car both these assertions have proved to be wrong.

 

The maximum power output of your inverter needs to be more than power draw of the onboard charger.  So a 7kW charger would could not be supported by a standard 5kW inverter, bearing in mind that your house will be drawing power as well. 

 

I have 3x5kW inverters so I always have more power that the car and house can use. What I don't know is if the car will reduce it's power draw to match what is available or simply refuse to charge.

 

I usually charge my car in the middle of the day when my solar production is at it's maximum.  I sometimes charge the car batteries from my house batteries if I am going out for the day. 

[Bandersnatch]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:11 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

In general it also depends on where you live and how many other people nearby have electric vehicles. The electric grid was never designed with charging cars in mind. Those cars need a lot of power and they need even more power if they should be charged fast. And worst case are very powerful cars which need even more power.

I agree "the electric grid was never designed with charging cars in mind" It was also never designed with the 21st Century or Climate Change in mind. In Thailand air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury.

 

Domestic chargers are all AC not fast DC. They are restricted to 7kW in the vast majority of cases. A few EVs now come with on-board 3-phase 11 and 22kW chargers but they require to be connected to a 3-Phase grid connection.  Plugging an 11kW 3-phase charger into a single phase grid connection would give you only 3.6kW if even worked at all. As domestic three-phase is quite rare in Thailand it is unlikely that 3-phase on-board chargers will be sold here as is the case in the UK. 

 

TOU rate electricity will mean that most EV drivers will charge at night when rates are cheap and demand is low. Variable tariffs which are common in most developed countries will come eventually where EVs will intelligently charge when rates are cheap and via V2G sell back to the grid when rates are high helping to stabilise the grid. 

 

[Sophon]

We have also decided to buy a new EV sometime in the next year or two. At the moment the MG ZS is the leading candidate, but that could change depending on what new models become available.

 

Like most people we have a 15/45A meter on 16 sq.mm. copper cable. Upgrading to a 30/100A meter would presumably mean upgrading the cable, and installing a second 15/45A meter would mean running a second of cable to the house. None of these options are acceptabe to me, since the existing 15/45A meter could easily meet our requirements even after installing the 7KW wall box (which from what I have read is really only 6.6 KW.). I have also seen reports, that the company installing the box refuses to do so, if you have solar panels installed. Have anyone buying a MG (or other brand) EV insisted on just having the wall box delivered and installing it themselves?  I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that as long as you have suitable cabling in place, installing a home charger is basically no different to installing a shower heater.

 

If none of the above is possible, then maybe just using a granny charger or a lower powered adjustable (6A/10A/13A/16A) charger like this one is a solution:

 

Since I don't really need to charge fast, maybe a lower powered charger is even preferable, as it would make it easier to balance our load. That might be even more important once we have had solar panels installed (another future plan).

 

[macahoom]

16 minutes ago, Sophon said:

We have also decided to buy a new EV sometime in the next year or two. At the moment the MG ZS is the leading candidate, but that could change depending on what new models become available.

 

Like most people we have a 15/45A meter on 16 sq.mm. copper cable. Upgrading to a 30/100A meter would presumably mean upgrading the cable, and installing a second 15/45A meter would mean running a second of cable to the house. None of these options are acceptabe to me, since the existing 15/45A meter could easily meet our requirements even after installing the 7KW wall box (which from what I have read is really only 6.6 KW.). I have also seen reports, that the company installing the box refuses to do so, if you have solar panels installed. Have anyone buying a MG (or other brand) EV insisted on just having the wall box delivered and installing it themselves?  I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that as long as you have suitable cabling in place, installing a home charger is basically no different to installing a shower heater.

 

If none of the above is possible, then maybe just using a granny charger or a lower powered adjustable (6A/10A/13A/16A) charger like this one is a solution:

 

Since I don't really need to charge fast, maybe a lower powered charger is even preferable, as it would make it easier to balance our load. That might be even more important once we have had solar panels installed (another future plan).

 

You can buy and install your own wallbox. You don't have to use MG.

 

Lazada and Shopee etc. have lots of wallboxes for sale.

[macahoom]

19 minutes ago, Sophon said:

We have also decided to buy a new EV sometime in the next year or two. At the moment the MG ZS is the leading candidate, but that could change depending on what new models become available.

 

Like most people we have a 15/45A meter on 16 sq.mm. copper cable. Upgrading to a 30/100A meter would presumably mean upgrading the cable, and installing a second 15/45A meter would mean running a second of cable to the house. None of these options are acceptabe to me, since the existing 15/45A meter could easily meet our requirements even after installing the 7KW wall box (which from what I have read is really only 6.6 KW.). I have also seen reports, that the company installing the box refuses to do so, if you have solar panels installed. Have anyone buying a MG (or other brand) EV insisted on just having the wall box delivered and installing it themselves?  I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that as long as you have suitable cabling in place, installing a home charger is basically no different to installing a shower heater.

 

If none of the above is possible, then maybe just using a granny charger or a lower powered adjustable (6A/10A/13A/16A) charger like this one is a solution:

 

Since I don't really need to charge fast, maybe a lower powered charger is even preferable, as it would make it easier to balance our load. That might be even more important once we have had solar panels installed (another future plan).

 

If you don't need to charge quickly, granny charging (just plugging into a regular, domestic outlet), works perfectly well.

 

The MG ZSEV is a wonderful car, by the way. Had mine for two and a half years.

[Sophon]

1 minute ago, macahoom said:

You can buy and install your own wallbox. You don't have to use MG.

 

Lazada and Shopee etc. have lots of wallboxes for sale.

I know, but the box comes free with the purchase of the car, so it would be a waste of money to have to buy your own 7 KW box just because the company wont install your free box.

[Sophon]

Just now, macahoom said:

If you don't need to charge quickly, granny charging (just plugging into a regular, domestic outlet), works perfectly well.

 

The MG ZSEV is a wonderful car, by the way. Had mine for two and a half years.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of mileage are you getting on your ZS? We mostly do highway driving at 80-90 km/h mixed with some city driving.

[macahoom]

5 minutes ago, Sophon said:

I know, but the box comes free with the purchase of the car, so it would be a waste of money to have to buy your own 7 KW box just because the company wont install your free box.

Have you asked MG if they'll give you the box without them insisting they install it? My other EV car dealership gave me a box without installation, so I'd be surprised if MG don't..

[macahoom]

5 minutes ago, Sophon said:

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of mileage are you getting on your ZS? We mostly do highway driving at 80-90 km/h mixed with some city driving.

I can tell you that driving around Phuket, a 100% charge gives me about 320 kms.

 

I believe the latest ZS has a bigger battery than I have. 

[Sophon]

2 minutes ago, macahoom said:

Have you asked MG if they'll give you the box without them insisting they install it? My other EV car dealership gave me a box without installation, so I'd be surprised if MG don't..

No not yet. As mentioned we will be buying over the next year or two, so we haven't visited the dealers yet. Still waiting to see what new models will be coming out.

[Sophon]

1 minute ago, macahoom said:

I can tell you that driving around Phuket, a 100% charge gives me about 320 kms.

 

I believe the latest ZS has a bigger battery than I have. 

So with 45 kWh usable (if I remember correctly) that would be about 7km/kWh. The new one have 49 kWh usable battery, but I will wait and see if they decide to sell the long range in Thailand (65 kWh battery).

[bert bloggs]

Our son is thinking of buying one of these cars ,but i must admit i am not sure,he says the govt give s discount when you buy one .personally i would wait a few years yet.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Sophon said:

I have also seen reports, that the company installing the box refuses to do so, if you have solar panels installed. Have anyone buying a MG (or other brand) EV insisted on just having the wall box delivered and installing it themselves?  I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that as long as you have suitable cabling in place, installing a home charger is basically no different to installing a shower heater.

I watched the installer fit the wall box and yes @Sophon it was pretty straightforward. I discussed the need to upgrade my grid connection with PEA  and they agreed with you sophon it was not necessary for a 7kW load.  I asked PEA if my existing cables (buried underground) were ok for 30/100A meter, I was told no and I was unable to the source the required cable anywhere in the Province - had to be ordered from Bangkok!

 

I have shared my story a few times about trying to persuade MG to allow me to charge my EV from Solar, I was only successful once I reached out to the President of MG Thailand to intervene.

 

I suggested to my MG dealer here in Surin that I was prepared to buy my own charger and install it myself. They said it would invalidate the warrantee. I didn't push the issue but it probably wasn't true. I am a member of the MG EVs Community and was a panel member on a video podcast when this was discussed  - if true Thailand is the only country where this applies. 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Bandersnatch

[macahoom]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

They said it would invalidate the warrantee.

I don't believe!

 

I wonder if you charge, when out and about,  using one of the many fast and rapid chargers that are all over the country (that were not supplied or installed by MG), does that invalidate the warranty too?

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

I agree "the electric grid was never designed with charging cars in mind" It was also never designed with the 21st Century or Climate Change in mind. In Thailand air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury.

Neither the 21st century nor climate change has anything to do with it. If indeed air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury in homes, it is because of affluence, not necessary. 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Neither the 21st century nor climate change has anything to do with it. If indeed air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury in homes, it is because of affluence, not necessary. 

"Neither the 21st century nor climate change has anything to do with it" - what a stupid thing to say!

 

"Population exposure to heat is increasing due to climate change. Globally, extreme temperature events are observed to be increasing in their frequency, duration, and magnitude." 

https://www.who.int/health-topics/heatwaves

 

Let's just blame grid  blackouts on EVs charging instead!

 

 

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

"Neither the 21st century nor climate change has anything to do with it" - what a stupid thing to say!

Why?

 

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

"Population exposure to heat is increasing due to climate change. Globally, extreme temperature events are observed to be increasing in their frequency, duration, and magnitude." 

https://www.who.int/health-topics/heatwaves

Your link seems to be long on rhetoric and short on facts. What a stupid thing to link to. 

 

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Let's just blame grid  blackouts on EVs charging instead!

What a stupid thing to say. I blame grid blackouts on the morons that are in charge of the grids. If we are adding load to the grid, does the grid not need additional power? What do you blame grid blackouts on, Putin? 

[macahoom]

4 hours ago, Sophon said:

So with 45 kWh usable (if I remember correctly) that would be about 7km/kWh. The new one have 49 kWh usable battery, but I will wait and see if they decide to sell the long range in Thailand (65 kWh battery).

Here are figures for a trip I did in my MGZSEV in Thailand; nearly all rural, winding roads; hilly in places.

 

Aircon on permanently. Eco mode. I toggle between the three KERS settings.

 

Distance travelled: 351.1 kms. Average speed: 59kph.
Driving time: 5 hrs 57 mins.
11.6kWh per 100kms.

 

With my 44.5kWh battery, and if my calculations are correct, that works out at a range of 383kms for a 100% charge.  

I'm very happy with these numbers. I believe they are better than MG claim.

[Bandersnatch]

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why?

 

Your link seems to be long on rhetoric and short on facts. What a stupid thing to link to. 

 

What a stupid thing to say. I blame grid blackouts on the morons that are in charge of the grids. If we are adding load to the grid, does the grid not need additional power? What do you blame grid blackouts on, Putin? 

You clearly have never heard of the World Health Organization - if you criticize it as a source.  Your unsupported opinions do not have any proof or evidence to show that they are true. Nobody is interested in your opinions. 

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

You clearly have never heard of the World Health Organization - if you criticize it as a source.

Yes, they did a great job with covid...

 

18 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Your unsupported opinions do not have any proof or evidence to show that they are true.

 

I've been in Thailand for over twenty years, and it does not seem any hotter now than it did when I got here, yet you claim that air-conditioners are now a necessity in Thailand due to climate change. 

 

I know a lot of people that don't have air-conditioning, and factories everywhere without air-conditioning.

 

You're claiming the world is coming to an end, so why is it up to me it's up to me to prove it's not? 

 

18 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Nobody is interested in your opinions. 

Like all members of the intelligentsia, you think you speak for everyone.  In any event, if you have no interest, don't respond. Easy-peasy. 

 

You need to let some of that hate go brother, it will eat you alive. 

 

Go with God. 

 

 

[placeholder]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:01 PM, Yellowtail said:

Neither the 21st century nor climate change has anything to do with it. If indeed air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury in homes, it is because of affluence, not necessary. 

 

 

Absolutely, the atmosphere getting hotter has absolutely no relation to the demand for A/C. It's ridiculous even to contend that there is a relationship between climate and air conditioning. Which is why the demand for A/C in the Arctic has always been as strong as the demand in, say Texas.

 

Europe never understood America’s love of air conditioning — until now

A second-sizzling heat wave that’s sweeping Europe this summer is fueling a shift in attitude across the continent to the once foreign concept of air conditioning.

This week’s latest and most punishing heat wave is expected to shatter all-time high records with temperatures predicted to hit about 108 Fahrenheit (42C) in Paris and 102.2 (39C) in London on Thursday, while the mercury in Belgium reached a record of 103.8F on Wednesday.

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But with the planet getting hotter due to human-caused climate change, many Europeans are reconsidering their opposition to air conditioning that has made them among the lowest users of the cooling machines in the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/28/europes-record-heatwave-is-changing-stubborn-minds-about-value-air-conditioning/

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Absolutely, the atmosphere getting hotter has absolutely no relation to the demand for A/C. It's ridiculous even to contend that there is a relationship between climate and air conditioning. Which is why the demand for A/C in the Arctic has always been as strong as the demand in, say Texas.

 

Europe never understood America’s love of air conditioning — until now

A second-sizzling heat wave that’s sweeping Europe this summer is fueling a shift in attitude across the continent to the once foreign concept of air conditioning.

This week’s latest and most punishing heat wave is expected to shatter all-time high records with temperatures predicted to hit about 108 Fahrenheit (42C) in Paris and 102.2 (39C) in London on Thursday, while the mercury in Belgium reached a record of 103.8F on Wednesday.

Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia's war in Ukraine.

But with the planet getting hotter due to human-caused climate change, many Europeans are reconsidering their opposition to air conditioning that has made them among the lowest users of the cooling machines in the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/28/europes-record-heatwave-is-changing-stubborn-minds-about-value-air-conditioning/

Do you ever read past the headlines? Another article long on rhetoric and short on facts. Did you actually read it or just go with it. 

 

To be clear, I never said the Earth was not warming, nor have I ever said the warm was not caused by human activity. 

 

Someone claimed that because of climate change, "In Thailand air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury.", to which I responded that climate change has nothing to do with it, and stated that if indeed air-conditioning is no longer considered a luxury in homes, it is because of affluence, not necessity.

 

Nether you, nor the  guy that made the statement has produced anything that would indicate that he is right or that I am wrong. Pointing to a few weather events in Europe certainly doesn't do it.  

 

I've been in Thailand full-time for over twenty years, and it does not seem significantly hotter now than it did when I got here. Plenty of people do not have air-conditioning in Thailand, and for the poor it is still absolutely a luxury.

 

So how much hotter is it in Thailand now, than it was twenty years ago? 

 

If air-conditioning is a necessity in Thailand, how it there are people all over the country living and working happily without it?

 

You guys with advanced degrees crack me up.