Florida's Don't Say Gay Bill Signed Into Law -- Demagogue's Delight

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1 hour ago, Atlantis said:

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Did you even read even the first link, more than a single paragraph down?     ^_^

Let me just take a good look at the others.

Yes I did. read it in its entirety. So what paint are you trying to make by asking that question?

[Atlantis]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3696185/

1st Link, under Methods:

Sample and setting

Data were obtained from the Oregon Healthy Teens (OHT) study. Annual OHT surveys are administered to more than one-third of Oregon’s 8^th and 11^th grade students attending public schools. Each year, a random sample of districts within counties and schools within districts is selected. Participating students came from 34 counties (no respondents were sampled in the remaining 2 counties in Oregon). The questionnaire was available in both English and Spanish. All participants were assured that the survey is anonymous and voluntary, and parents provided passive consent for their children to participate. For the current study, data were pooled from the years 2006 (when sexual orientation was first assessed) to 2008 (the most recently available data) in order to increase the sample size of LGB participants. Sampling for the 2007/2008 years was conducted so that each school would be asked to participate as part of the state sample once in the two-year period, minimizing the likelihood that the same schools were sampled in multiple years. In 2008, 75.4% of the 8^th and 11^th grade students in participating schools completed the OHT survey.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Atlantis
Link inserted so you don't have to flip between web pages

[Atlantis]

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2021/11/gay-men-lower-suicide

2nd link: absolutely cringe-worthy inter alia:

Although the study didn’t examine the effects of specific laws and policies, one of the most common forms of structural stigma in the higher-stigma countries was a lack of legal recognition of relationships, such as same-sex marriage. Men who moved from higher- to lower-stigma countries were more likely to move to live openly as LGBTQ and to seek asylum than men who moved from lower- to higher-stigma countries. 

And, wait for it {drum roll}

For the smaller number of gay and bisexual men who moved from lower- to higher-stigma countries, there wasn’t an increased risk for suicidality and depression, possibly because growing up in a more tolerant society had some lasting mental health benefits.

[Atlantis]

As for the 3rd link, I reserve my inalienable right to finish reading properly after a good night's rest.

As gratitude for your patience, I will be a good sport and spend some time finding robust studies that apparently undermine my position, and then still demonstrate why the other BM is wrong in more ways than one.

[jimmybcool]

The problem as I see it is the extremists.  For example calling this law "don't say gay" triggers many on the left and is itself demagoguery.  And yes I recognize how the law was promoted in part to get traction with some voter segments on the right. 

 

I take no issue with some form of sex education including discussion of alternate lifestyles for kids in public schools.  But not young children.  It's hard enough for kids to be kids these days with the internet and all let's at least let them stay innocent as long as possible until it needs to be addressed.  Maybe let them reach at least 11-12 years of age when they begin to have urges they don't understand.  And maybe let parents have some say over how it is presented. 

 

Perfect solution?  Maybe not.  But I respect parents who don't want their 6 year old taught about sexuality. 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

The problem as I see it is the extremists.  For example calling this law "don't say gay" triggers many on the left and is itself demagoguery.  And yes I recognize how the law was promoted in part to get traction with some voter segments on the right. 

 

I take no issue with some form of sex education including discussion of alternate lifestyles for kids in public schools.  But not young children.  It's hard enough for kids to be kids these days with the internet and all let's at least let them stay innocent as long as possible until it needs to be addressed.  Maybe let them reach at least 11-12 years of age when they begin to have urges they don't understand.  And maybe let parents have some say over how it is presented. 

 

Perfect solution?  Maybe not.  But I respect parents who don't want their 6 year old taught about sexuality. 

It covers all grades.

Parents can sue the schools if they don't like anything that happens in class in all grades. Perhaps a student class project. A book report. A teacher that is out or has been outed. That is fascist big brother stuff. Ignorant intolerant parents watching everything every day. Right wing kids recording on cell phones.

These right wingers want to cancel everything LGBT under threat of bankrupting schools. So out of fear there will be a big chill and they win.

 

These laws just like anti CRT laws are totally unnecessary and are being passed for toxic political culture war reasons only.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Jingthing

[jimmybcool]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It covers all grades.

Parents can sue the schools if they don't like anything that happens in class in all grades. Perhaps a student class project. A book report. A teacher that is out or has been outed. That is fascist big brother stuff. Ignorant intolerant parents watching everything every day. Right wing kids recording on cell phones.

These right wingers want to cancel everything LGBT under threat of bankrupting schools. So out of fear there will be a big chill and they win.

 

These laws just like anti CRT laws are totally unnecessary and are being passed for toxic political culture war reasons only.

I can't say that I've read the laws or looked into the curriculum so I can't comment with authority.  Wat you say might be 100% true.   I can state with certainty is that both sides are using this stuff to gin up emotions in their voters base.  It isn't just one side.

[ozimoron]

21 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

What the hell is any teacher in any grade giving lessons on their sex life.   Public schools are their to prepare students teaching them to read, write, do mathmatics, history, science, civics etc.  

Public schools are not to be a place where students should be required to become proficient in the Kama Sutra. 

Teachers have every opportunity outside of the classroom to profess their beliefs on sex to other like minded individuals.  They should not be allowed to indoctrinate what is a captive group in the schools.  No different than it should not be allowed to teach religion, critical race theory, creationism, or anything that is not an a subject intended to foster a childs academics. 

 

Teaching social tolerance is very much within the remit of a school's responsibility and always has been regarded as such.

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Teaching social tolerance is very much within the remit of a school's responsibility and always has been regarded as such.

The right wing anti LGBT activists are promoting social INTOLERANCE. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

I can't say that I've read the laws or looked into the curriculum so I can't comment with authority.  Wat you say might be 100% true.   I can state with certainty is that both sides are using this stuff to gin up emotions in their voters base.  It isn't just one side.

Both sides ÷÷ like Charlottesville.

[seajae]

anyone that tries to sexualize/influence young children to their own way of thinking needs to be charged and put away, young children should never be influenced into making sexual decisions when their mental capacity is not mature enough to do so. Telling these children to then not let their parents know what the teachers are doing shows the teachers are well aware what they are doing is not right, they are simply pushing their own sexual preferences onto these kids for their own gratification with no thought to the well being of the children themselves. Being gay is a personal choice, when kids are mature enough they know what they want, same with gender disphoria, pushing these things  on to young minds that are not capable of understanding it all is simply wrong  but with the woke brigade taking over we are seeing just how far the extreme left can push to get their own way with no regard for anyone that does not think like them even though they are in the minority, democrats have a lot to answer for. The only ones approving of them doing this to kids  in most cases have no kids of their own or put their own personal sexual satisfaction above that of children or anyone else. I am fast losing all the regard I have had over many years for the gay community pushing this garbage, all the gay people I have known over many years would never have approved of this, they had morals and would never try to interfere with children or the way they thought, shows just how demented the ones aproving of this really are

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, seajae said:

anyone that tries to sexualize/influence young children to their own way of thinking needs to be charged and put away, young children should never be influenced into making sexual decisions when their mental capacity is not mature enough to do so. Telling these children to then not let their parents know what the teachers are doing shows the teachers are well aware what they are doing is not right, they are simply pushing their own sexual preferences onto these kids for their own gratification with no thought to the well being of the children themselves. Being gay is a personal choice, when kids are mature enough they know what they want, same with gender disphoria, pushing these things  on to young minds that are not capable of understanding it all is simply wrong  but with the woke brigade taking over we are seeing just how far the extreme left can push to get their own way with no regard for anyone that does not think like them even though they are in the minority, democrats have a lot to answer for. The only ones approving of them doing this to kids  in most cases have no kids of their own or put their own personal sexual satisfaction above that of children or anyone else. I am fast losing all the regard I have had over many years for the gay community pushing this garbage, all the gay people I have known over many years would never have approved of this, they had morals and would never try to interfere with children or the way they thought, shows just how demented the ones aproving of this really are

the thing of it is that nobody is. This is just right wing paranoia and political talking points playing to people's weaknesses. Moreover, teachers are not trying to influence the kids or to make any decisions. Quite the opposite., You also wrongly imply that homosexuality or any other variations of binary sexuality are somehow down to choice instead of genetics.

Edited April 10, 2022 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

the thing of it is that nobody is. This is just right wing paranoia and political talking points playing to people's weaknesses.

Exactly. Its a fake issue just like CRT in schools but sadly a lot of reactionary low information suckers are eating it up. Not really surprising in a country that is sliding quickly into authoritarian fascism, that elected trump once and may again.

[Longwood50]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Teaching social tolerance is very much within the remit of a school's responsibility and always has been regarded as such

You are confusing the term "tolerance" with "grooming" 

I might say you have to have tolerance for someones religion.  That does not mean I wish to have them evangelizing to my child.  I may say you should have tolerance for someones race but that does not mean I want teacher indoctrinating my children that caucasian people are evil.  I may want someone to be tolerant of of other people's political opinions.  That does not mean I want them schooling my child on their political views. 

Teachers are suppose to teach academic subjects not inject their "values" on social issues.  

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

You are confusing the term "tolerance" with "grooming" 

I might say you have to have tolerance for someones religion.  That does not mean I wish to have them evangelizing to my child.  I may say you should have tolerance for someones race but that does not mean I want teacher indoctrinating my children that caucasian people are evil.  I may want someone to be tolerant of of other people's political opinions.  That does not mean I want them schooling my child on their political views. 

Teachers are suppose to teach academic subjects not inject their "values" on social issues.  

Show some evidence that this is happening. Social studies has been on the curriculum forever. Whose values should be taught to the kids and when? No social values or ethics at all? Do you consider that to be a home skoolin' curriculum item?

Edited April 10, 2022 by ozimoron

[Longwood50]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Show some evidence that this is happening. Social studies has been on the curriculum forever.

As I said you are confusing tolerance with grooming. If you have a teacher complaining that he can't share his gay experiences with kindergartners and you think that is "social studies" I suggest you need remedial education 



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/watch-florida-teacher-upset-he-cant-share-gay-experiences-with-kindergartners

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

As I said you are confusing tolerance with grooming. If you have a teacher complaining that he can't share his gay experiences with kindergartners and you think that is "social studies" I suggest you need remedial education 



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/watch-florida-teacher-upset-he-cant-share-gay-experiences-with-kindergartners

Nowhere does he say he's teaching sexuality. In fact he denies that he is. He's saying the law would prevent him from even answering the kid's questions about his partner in photos. Are you saying that for the first time in history, teachers should be banned from displaying photos of their families?

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Nowhere does he say he's teaching sexuality. In fact he denies that he is. He's saying the law would prevent him from even answering the kid's questions about his partner in photos. Are you saying that for the first time in history, teachers should be banned from displaying photos of their families?

The right wingers which is nothing new want to ban LGBT teachers or at least mandate them to deep closets. 

 

Under these new fascist big brother laws any out or outed teacher is subject to the right wing  spy kids whose parents can sue them for almost anything.

 

Of course schools will avoid risks and be more likely to avoid hiring LGBT teachers in the first place.

 

Of course I am angry. I've been opposing this anti LGBT bigotry in schools since I was 15. Then against Anita Bryant and California Prop 6.

I thought these battles against the bigots were won decades ago. But they're back stronger than ever and now they have total control of the supreme court.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[howlee101]

On 4/5/2022 at 11:52 AM, Jingthing said:

The legislation reads: “Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.”

 

All grades.

What state standards?

Parents any grade may file lawsuits.

From your post, I only see grades K-3, not "All grades"....akin to "Don't Say Gay" in your topic....it doesn't say either but you can imply what you think it says and others can imply what they think the bill says.  Fair enough?

 

Check here for the state standards:  https://www.fldoe.org/academics/standards/

 

Parents can file lawsuits with or without this bill so not sure what your point is.

[Jingthing]

Harvey Milk assassinated by a right wing bigot is rolling in his grave.

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, howlee101 said:

From your post, I only see grades K-3, not "All grades"....akin to "Don't Say Gay" in your topic....it doesn't say either but you can imply what you think it says and others can imply what they think the bill says.  Fair enough?

 

Check here for the state standards:  https://www.fldoe.org/academics/standards/

 

Parents can file lawsuits with or without this bill so not sure what your point is.

Not this denialist tripe again!

 

This part refers to all grades and the supporters of the bill confirm that.

 

 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students

[Longwood50]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Nowhere does he say he's teaching sexuality. In fact he denies that he is.

Did you even read the articles  where the cartoon script where it talks about if you have boy parts but feel like a girl and at the school where it talks about having your private body parts touched and it feels good.   If you believe this is appropriate you should not be within miles of a school either. 

And no, I can't think of a single occassion where a teacher throughout my grade school, high school, colllege or post graduate work felt compelled to share "family pictures" with me. 

[frantick]

40 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Nowhere does he say he's teaching sexuality. In fact he denies that he is. He's saying the law would prevent him from even answering the kid's questions about his partner in photos. Are you saying that for the first time in history, teachers should be banned from displaying photos of their families?

Funny, I never saw a photo of any of my teacher's families. 

[Jingthing]

Teachers aren't robots.

I recall numerous teachers announcing their upcoming or recent marriages to the class and of course they gendered their partners.

Also kids do ask questions.

It appears the anti LGBT bigots want LGBT teachers to lie.

[Jingthing]

The plague of anti LGBT laws brings to mind this old (censored) song.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Here is some very specific information about what is wrong with the Florida law. Again: ALL GRADES. Again: A hateful effort to ERASE LGBT people.

Try to imagine if the same anti LGBT bigots were trying to erase Jews.

Of course some of them are but they can't pass laws about that.

 

https://www.kaplanhecker.com/newsroom/florida-parents-and-students-challenge-“don’t-say-gay”-law-harmful-and-unconstitutional

 

 

Florida Parents and Students Challenge “Don’t Say Gay” Law as Harmful and Unconstitutional

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Nowhere does he say he's teaching sexuality. In fact he denies that he is. He's saying the law would prevent him from even answering the kid's questions about his partner in photos. Are you saying that for the first time in history, teachers should be banned from displaying photos of their families?

I never once had a teacher who shared photos of family. Keep your persoanal life just that....personal.

You come to school to teach your particular subject and you leave. End of story. 

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Harvey Milk assassinated by a right wing bigot is rolling in his grave.

 

 

Ole Harvey got a ship named after him.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Harvey_Milk_(T-AO-206)#:~:text=USNS Harvey Milk is the second of the,2018 at General Dynamics NASSCO in San Diego.

Edited April 10, 2022 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Ole Harvey got a ship named after him.

Yes 

He had been in the Navy.

But more relevant here his fight against Prop 6 Briggs and his ideology that gay people must come out.

 

Its probably for the best that Milk did not live to see this current national plague of anti LGBT laws by a right wing that is much further to the right indeed fascist than the right wing of his day.

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/navy-launches-ship-named-gay-rights-leader-harvey-milk-n1283409

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[JeffersLos]

On 4/5/2022 at 11:10 AM, Jingthing said:

This explains it:

"young gay kids"

 

ho·mo·sex·u·al

 

(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.

 

a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

 

 

Since when can young kids be gay?