Engine troubles bring sink-or-swim moment for Thailand’s sub deal with China

[trainman34014]

Can't scrap the deal; too many bungs been paid out already !

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

This month brings a make-or-break meeting for the Thai Navy’s deal to buy a Chinese-made submarine, with delivery threatened by the fading chance of China getting German top-end engines as stipulated in the contract.

Cancel the deal and help the people of Thailand rebuild their lives.

Thailand is not at war, is not in danger and does not need submarines.

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Looks like the money can be removed from the table and the losses if any can be chalked up to doing business without a guarantee.  I mean they could buy a couple of hamster cages with the wheels inside and use the hamsters as the power turbine or even put a few exercise bikes inside with a chain reaching out to the screws.....

Ole fatty could do with some exercise.

[John Drake]

Great opportunity to get out from under this white elephant of a deal.

[Srikcir]

...transfer two decommissioned Chinese submarines to Thailand

This would be the diesel-electric attack Song-class Type 039 submarine (NATO Yuan class). There have been three successive models so not identified which one. The latest was the Type 039G1 built in 2004. Type 039 uses three German MTU diesel engines. 

German MTU would certify the engines in transfer of subject Song subs to Thailand.

Depending on the model type, this offer might meet Thailand military's (not necessarily synonomous with Thailand people's) needs. Remember, funds had already been approved years ago after the Thailand military coup.

But it's not clear if any cost for renovation/upgrade to current standards is included to meet MTU certification; nor whether the two submarines would be offered free, 2 for 1 original contract cost or a face-saving minimal fee for the two.

See https://thethaiger.com/news/bangkok dated February 7, 2022

As Thailand government in one instance had declared it was neutral regarding the Russian war with Ukraine, some kind of deal might still be done. A 2 for 1 deal would be clever.

[milesinnz]

I am sure Lifan can knock up a copy....

[Cake Monster]

1 hour ago, Dialemco said:

Does Thailand really need submarines? Probably not just cancel and use money wisely to stimulate the economy.

There could be some truth in this statement.

Not necessarily to stimulate the Economy, but to help save it.

Its a bit strange why the Thais are rejecting all the assistance the Chinese are offering to make this deal work.

Not being able to supply the Engines or acceptable alternatives would provide a cop out of the deal with no face lost.

 

[Xonax]

A Submarine without engines, is not worse than an Aircraft-Carrier without Airplanes.

[geisha]

Maybe it’s a good excuse for the Thai government to refuse the order ? Lack of funds in difficult times ?

[Derek B]

Better to buy some Turkish drones.................which would have a civilian or civil defence role too.

[sawadee1947]

The Admiral tried to be very smart.

They visited the German shipyard some years ago and were impressed by German engineering.

However the Admiral thought himself to be very clever to let the Chinese build the sub.

Unfortunately he overestimated his cleverness and IQ.

So now he's in <deleted> and the Thais will have to pay the bill.????????

[Millcx]

Trying to put this into perspective … Submarines built by Chinese 55555555555 … Time to start throwing Ukrainians and Taiwanese into jail and can barter … World sees the ten faces of Thailand … Russian Chinese Puppets it is then 555555

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

That's going to be hard since the Germans will not supply the engines to the Chinese. ????

because chose the wrong side and incorrect words in the Russia war VS Ukraine.... it's a start as Chinese will suffer more draw backs due to their attitude

[micmichd]

8 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

Great news. The Generals can now pocket 100% of the money (instead of the usual 40%) and blame the whole terrible ‘misunderstanding’ on those unfriendly, uncooperative Germans.

 

 

Pacta sunt servanda, I learnt in school in GerMoney. 

[digger70]

What's the problem ? No mention Why the Germans don't want to supply the Requested engines.

[overt2016]

57 minutes ago, Xonax said:

A Submarine without engines, is not worse than an Aircraft-Carrier without Airplanes.

I'm pretty sure the aircraftt carrier is planeless and engineless.

Why then has it been doced all this time.

If it was functionable surely it would used with other navy ships on training exercises.

Something is not right.

[Mavideol]

6 minutes ago, overt2016 said:

I'm pretty sure the aircraftt carrier is planeless and engineless.

Why then has it been doced all this time.

If it was functionable surely it would used with other navy ships on training exercises.

Something is not right.

for the past 8 years nothing has been right, it will not start now ..... trains, planes, subs, aircraft carrier

[Dexxter]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

They could always just do as Australia did to France.

"We don't want that anymore. We had change of heart" 

That is what happens when a country tries to sell substandard products.

France tried to sell cr@ppy subs to Australia.

China is trying to sell cr@ppy subs to Thailand.

[willr]

Why wouldn't just source them out of Thailand, MTU Asia,

Diesel and turbine, ship engines.suppliers.

Maybe not enough cut to go around me thinks.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

MTU is owned by Rolls Royce

But who is Rolls Royce owned by?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Holdings

 

Kongsberg
In July 2018, Rolls-Royce sold its commercial marine business to Kongsberg for £500 million.

 

So it IS those nasty old Germans and not us cuddly Brits.  ????

[VocalNeal]

4 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

AND they own RR.  

Who?

[metisdead]

A post with a derogatory trolling reference to the French people has been removed.

[kwonitoy]

11 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

Oh for goodness' sake! Just install a large rubber band in place of a complicated German engine and be done with it. At least the glorious Thai Navy will know how to operate it.

I'd go with Kubota single cylinder diesels, many many of them.

[Misterwhisper]

I wonder if the Chinese are aware that all those German engines have integrated circuit boards made in... Taiwan.

[hanuman2543]

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

What's the problem ? No mention Why the Germans don't want to supply the Requested engines.

Germany does not export military or dual use hardware to dictatorships.

[spidermike007]

Let us hope RTN chief Admiral Somprasong Nilsamai utterly fails with this fools mission. Thailand needs submarines like Iceland needs aircraft carriers. 

 

Nobody is talking about how Thailand has not had a sub for over 60 years, why they need them, who the threats are, how they will be piloted, how they will be maintained, nor what the annual albatross budget will be. 

[Misterwhisper]

26 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Let us hope RTN chief Admiral Somprasong Nilsamai utterly fails with this fools mission. Thailand needs submarines like Iceland needs aircraft carriers. 

 

Nobody is talking about how Thailand has not had a sub for over 60 years, why they need them, who the threats are, how they will be piloted, how they will be maintained, nor what the annual albatross budget will be. 

Maybe they could dispatch a salvaging expedition to Koh Chang. I hear nearly the entire Thai Navy is lying there off-shore, sunk courtesy of the French in 1941. Might be possible to retrieve a couple of old engines there and restore them. Good enough for second-hand Chinese junk subs. 

[Bernietravelling]

14 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It's not like they're going to use the subs anyway, the water is too shallow.

Maybe, you compare the Thai submarine with a Virgina Class sub…

 

However, the Thai waters aren’t too shallow. The German navy is operating since dozens of years in the shallow waters of the Baltic Sea.

 

The problem with that is another one:

It requires well trained, experienced and disciplined submariners,

navigating carefully and knowledgeable to differentiate the many sonar reflections when sailing near the bottom.

 

By the way:

The Chinese sold them old technology, when selling them simple diesel motors. ????

German navy scrapped those already 15 years ago….

The comparable 212A class has also a MTU 396 with 1050kW - but used only as generator driving a Permasyn electric motor, when snorkeling or on the surface.

Submerged, they use an air-independent fuel cell …

 

[kiwikeith]

17 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Looks like the money can be removed from the table and the losses if any can be chalked up to doing business without a guarantee.  I mean they could buy a couple of hamster cages with the wheels inside and use the hamsters as the power turbine or even put a few exercise bikes inside with a chain reaching out to the screws.....

They could use Russian engines, Germany probably won't suplly China as they continue to not side with the crazy USA politicians 

[joecoolfrog]

13 hours ago, Dialemco said:

Does Thailand really need submarines? Probably not just cancel and use money wisely to stimulate the economy.

What , rob the elite of further wealth for the greater good , absurd suggestion. What next , real democracy ? , oh the horror !