Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[KhunLA]

Saw the Dolphin @ CS while O&A last week.  Looks quite nice, though really do prefer the Atto 3.  That's a pretty sweet ride, and I see a lot of those.

 

Starting to see a fair amount of MG4s also.  Along with Neta Vs.

 

Very few 2022 MG ZSs ... ????

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Another review of the MG Cyberster, it’s looking better and better.  However, some may prefer their V8 smoke machines and pontycrap’s.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyzPB2fGN88

Car looks great, I have done some podcasts with Miles Roberts he knows his stuff.

 

In the video below the MG owners club at Swavesey, near Cambridge is featured, brought back memories of many visits buying bits for a restoration. 
 

 

 

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Another review of the MG Cyberster, it’s looking better and better.  

the car looks great ????

but for my taste the two MG badges are just too big. i would remove them ...

[transam]

1 minute ago, motdaeng said:

the car looks great ????

but for my taste the two MG badges are just too big. i would remove them ...

Me too..............????

[motdaeng]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Me too..............????

I know already, there will be a response like that from you... you didn't disappoint ????

[JBChiangRai]

30 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

the car looks great ????

but for my taste the two MG badges are just too big. i would remove them ...

at last, I agree with Transmam.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Another review of the MG Cyberster, it’s looking better and better.  However, some may prefer their V8 smoke machines and pontycrap’s.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyzPB2fGN88

That is admittedly a nice car although a hardtop suits Thailand better. 

This begs the question, why haven't BMW and Mercedes build a car like that?

Are we seeing a "Nokia" moment for the legacy auto-makers or are the Chinese blowing smoke and mirrors ?????

[BenStark]

8 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

This begs the question, why haven't BMW and Mercedes build a car like that?

Because they couldn't build it at an affordable price, without the massive subsidizing the Chinese government throws at their EV manufacturers?

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, BenStark said:

Because they couldn't build it at an affordable price, without the massive subsidizing the Chinese government throws at their EV manufacturers?

Pray tell, what are these subsidies? Or are you just repeating the propaganda as I suspect you are?

 

Even if true, not MG’s fault that the western governments are too skint to help their manufacturing industry. Yet, they are increasing spending on so called defence, as if Russia or China wants to invade UK or Germany. Laughable really.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Gweiloman

[JBChiangRai]

11 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is admittedly a nice car although a hardtop suits Thailand better. 

This begs the question, why haven't BMW and Mercedes build a car like that?

Are we seeing a "Nokia" moment for the legacy auto-makers or are the Chinese blowing smoke and mirrors ?????

It depends where you live and when you drive.  On the coast and cooler places like Chiang Rai, it's perfect for early mornings, evening and the cool season where 26C is typical.

 

11 hours ago, BenStark said:

Because they couldn't build it at an affordable price, without the massive subsidizing the Chinese government throws at their EV manufacturers?

I hope that is the case, because it means you get more car for your money.

[KhunLA]

40 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Pray tell, what are these subsidies? Or are you just repeating the propaganda as I suspect you are?

 

Even if true, not MG’s fault that the western governments are too skint to help their manufacturing industry. Yet, they are increasing spending on so called defence, as if Russia or China wants to invade UK or Germany. Laughable really.

Why would 'state owned' auto makers, need to give themselves subsidies?  Are people that daft.   They sell cars to their citizens, at near cost, as that's how socialism works.  

 

State owned businesses are not profit driven to their own citizens, as it should be.  They make up the profit line, when exporting & selling.  No price gouging at home.  No silly overpaid union workers.  The simply provide quality vehicles to their citizens that need them, and an affordable price.  All types & price ranges.

 

The 'Big Four' Chinese auto makers are 'state owned':

 

"There exists a grouping of traditional “Big Four” state-owned car manufacturers of China, namely: SAIC Motor, FAW, Dongfeng, and Chang’an, with car sales of 5.37 million, 3.50 million, 3.28 million and 2.30 million in 2021 respectively" - wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_China

 

The ignorance of the anti EV / CH folks is mind boggling.

Edited September 24, 2023 by KhunLA

[Gweiloman]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Why would 'state owned' auto makers, need to give themselves subsidies?  Are people that daft.   They sell cars to their citizens, and near cost, as that's how socialism works.  

 

State owned businesses are not profit driven.  They make up the profit line, when exporting & selling.  No price gouging at home.  No silly overpaid union workers.  The simply provide quality vehicles to their citizens that need them, and an affordable price.  All types & price ranges.

 

The 'Big Four' Chinese auto makers are 'state owned':

 

"There exists a grouping of traditional “Big Four” state-owned car manufacturers of China, namely: SAIC Motor, FAW, Dongfeng, and Chang’an, with car sales of 5.37 million, 3.50 million, 3.28 million and 2.30 million in 2021 respectively" - wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_China

 

The ignorance of the anti EV / CH folks is mind boggling.

Just imagine what the EU commission is trying to do. They are hoping to impose tariffs on great value for money CH made EVs so that their consumers have to pay more. In a real democracy, these bureaucrats would have been booted out a long time ago. But in an authoritarian regime like the EU, they get to hang onto their cushy, “garden” (as per Borell) jobs with no accountability.

[BenStark]

44 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Pray tell, what are these subsidies? Or are you just repeating the propaganda as I suspect you are?

Just get out of your cave and start reading the news. If you don't know yet that everything from the solar and EV industries, together with any other industries, are heavily subsidized or simply owned by the CCP, then you are ignorant on purpose.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/13/cars/europe-china-electric-car-subsidies/index.html

 

Speaking to the European Parliament Wednesday, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Europe was open to competition but “not for a race to the bottom.”

“Global markets are now flooded with cheaper electric cars and their prices [are] kept artificially low by huge state subsidies,” von der Leyen said. “So I can announce today that the commission is launching an anti-subsidy investigation into electric vehicles coming from China.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-warns-europe-its-probe-chinese-evs-will-hurt-ties-2023-09-14/

 

BEIJING, Sept 14 (Reuters) - A European Commission investigation into Chinese electric vehicles believed to have benefited from state subsidies will have a "negative" impact on economic and trade ties, China's commerce ministry warned on Thursday.

[Hummin]

My next motorbikes going to be EV. 

 

Not yet, but in a few years I will exchange my crf 300

 

 

 

 

And later my big bike will be EV to

 

 

next year I will buy a new last year model b7 double cab Triton I guess on campaign. No way Im jumping on the EV for a car yet. 

 

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

There could well be subsidies on Chinese EV's.

 

I do know in other sectors the CCP will give an incentive to Chinese companies in the form of a kick-back that is a percentage of overseas sales in US dollars.

 

I don't know if this applies to EV's and whilst I agree it is difficult for local companies to compete, I do think it is good for the consumer.

 

I would be less than happy if the Thai Government told me I must pay a 20% tariff on my Chinese EV's because local manufacturers can't compete.  If I still lived in the UK and the government did that, they would lose my vote in the next election.

 

If it means that my new Chinese EV is sponsored by the CCP then more fool them and thank you very much Winnie the Pooh.

 

This whole process of sourcing from the most cost effective country is called Globalisation, applying Tariff's to prevent this is called Protectionism.

[BenStark]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I would be less than happy if the Thai Government told me I must pay a 20% tariff on my Chinese EV's because local manufacturers can't compete.  If I still lived in the UK and the government did that, they would lose my vote in the next election.

 

If it means that my new Chinese EV is sponsored by the CCP then more fool them and thank you very much Winnie the Pooh.

There is subsidizing, and then there is unfair competition with the intention to get competitors out of business, you should read up on that.

 

You could start with the building industry in China. You think they got so big, and now are on the verge of bankruptcy, because they got a bit of a discount from the CCP?

 

No, what the government was doing was unsustainable in the long term, and that is showing now.

 

What you think will happen once China controls the EV market because lack of other manufacturers still in business? You think it will still be cheap?

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

There is subsidizing, and then there is unfair competition with the intention to get competitors out of business, you should read up on that.

 

You could start with the building industry in China. You think they got so big, and now are on the verge of bankruptcy, because they got a bit of a discount from the CCP?

 

No, what the government was doing was unsustainable in the long term, and that is showing now.

 

What you think will happen once China controls the EV market because lack of other manufacturers still in business? You think it will still be cheap?

The problem is, when our authorities decide something, it is a slow train wreck, while China turn around and got the hypersonic train and resources to accomplish what they decide. 

 

When the we learn to pull in same direction, we might win, but I have no hope spoiled westerns ever will understand how this diversity hurt us.

 

I do not agree in the green solutions, but I understand the importance to jump on the train to get a head start and win the race.

 

Making the car and wehiricle industry green, means alot of jobs, and lot of opportunities for the future. 

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, BenStark said:

There is subsidizing, and then there is unfair competition with the intention to get competitors out of business, you should read up on that.

 

You could start with the building industry in China. You think they got so big, and now are on the verge of bankruptcy, because they got a bit of a discount from the CCP?

 

No, what the government was doing was unsustainable in the long term, and that is showing now.

 

What you think will happen once China controls the EV market because lack of other manufacturers still in business? You think it will still be cheap?

Subsidising and unfair competition.  I am reminded of a friend of mine in the UK who had a business manufacturing the tins to hold paint.  He had a competitor he wanted out the market and so he sold his product at or below cost until his competitor went bust.  It's not illegal, it was simply a commercial tactic.  The strongest and fittest survive.

 

Maybe it's subsidies that make Chinese EV's cheap, maybe it's a lower labour cost and access to precious metals, maybe it's both.

 

Without cheaper, more polished Chinese EV's, where are we? Having to buy old-fashioned cars from the old dinosaurs?  Look at Toyota, they would even be making an EV if it weren't for Chinese competition.

 

I am not saying subsidies are right, only that the approach to that has to be better than the consumer being forced to pay more.

 

I only bought my eldest daughter the MG EP+ because of the subsidy here, should that be stopped too because it's unfair on Toyota selling their Corolla Altis?

[BenStark]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Making the car and wehiricle industry green, means alot of jobs, and lot of opportunities for the future. 

Jobs that will be lost elsewhere

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, BenStark said:

Jobs that will be lost elsewhere

That's the nature of competition.

[BenStark]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

2 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Jobs that will be lost elsewhere

That's the nature of competition.

Nothing to do with competition.

 

It is a false narrative, used by the extreme left, to claim that the green industry will create new jobs, well knowing that those jobs will be lost in other industries

[Hummin]

Just now, BenStark said:

Nothing to do with competition.

 

It is a false narrative, used by the extreme left, to claim that the green industry will create new jobs, well knowing that those jobs will be lost in other industries

Oh, ????

 

Thanks you proved my point

[BenStark]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am reminded of a friend of mine in the UK who had a business manufacturing the tins to hold paint.  He had a competitor he wanted out the market and so he sold his product at or below cost until his competitor went bust.  It's not illegal, it was simply a commercial tactic.  The strongest and fittest survive.

Yes it is illegal

 

https://sprintlaw.co.uk/articles/what-is-predatory-pricing/

 

Under the EU Competition Law, predatory pricing is illegal, so as a business, you want to make sure you stay out of this area of misusing market power. So can prices be too low? In short, the answer is yes, and it could be against the law in some circumstances.

[JBChiangRai]

20 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Yes it is illegal

 

https://sprintlaw.co.uk/articles/what-is-predatory-pricing/

 

Under the EU Competition Law, predatory pricing is illegal, so as a business, you want to make sure you stay out of this area of misusing market power. So can prices be too low? In short, the answer is yes, and it could be against the law in some circumstances.

I didn't know that.  However, looking at the date, it came into effect in 1988.  I was 31 which was a key milestone in my career as it was when I started my first business and this event took place prior to that.  Maybe it wasn't illegal then.

Edited September 24, 2023 by JBChiangRai
add context

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I didn't know that.  However, looking at the date, it came into effect in 1988.  I was 31 which was a key milestone in my career as it was when I started my first business and this event took place prior to that.  Maybe it wasn't illegal then.

It's been illegal in the US for well over a hundred years. 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

40 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I didn't know that.  However, looking at the date, it came into effect in 1988.  I was 31 which was a key milestone in my career as it was when I started my first business and this event took place prior to that.  Maybe it wasn't illegal then.

Burning ???? witches ????‍♀️ wasn't illegal around 1500, but that don't make it more right.

The predatory and national self-centered business practices of CCP is appalling. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Burning ???? witches ????‍♀️ wasn't illegal around 1500, but that don't make it more right.

The predatory and national self-centered business practices of CCP is appalling. 

Competing with those that can print money and make law rarely ends well. 

[vinny41]

At the moment there is a 10,000 euro difference in producing an EV in China rather than the EU or the UK
Currently there is a 10% tariff imposed on all cars entering the EU from China
Even with the 10% tariff imposed it still works out cheaper for Brands to build in China and import
VW, Tesla, BMW and Renault are already buildings cars in China for the European market citing lack of spare production facilities in Europe
PwC recently predicted automakers will sell 800,000 cars imported into Europe from China.

https://www.autonews.com/china/chinas-ev-exports-europe-will-soar-2025-report-says

[mistral53]

I didn't know that von der Leyen is trying to meddle in the electric vehicle business in Thailand - is she? Even after  103 pages, the topic is still 'Electric Vehicles in Thailand' - why do some fanatics constantly try to bring in their narrow minded political blabber? Sometimes I cant help but think they must be paid for doing it.

Edited September 24, 2023 by mistral53

[JBChiangRai]

40 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

I didn't know that von der Leyen is trying to meddle in the electric vehicle business in Thailand - is she? Even after  103 pages, the topic is still 'Electric Vehicles in Thailand' - why do some fanatics constantly try to bring in their narrow minded political blabber? Sometimes I cant help but think they must be paid for doing it.

I take your point, but everything done by the EU & especially the UK will affect which EV's are available in Thailand.  Nobody is going to make all their vehicles available in RHD just for Thailand.