14 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The CCP voice monitoring and cabin video recording should already be active just in case you criticize Beijing. Some Chinese cars just return a smile face 😀 if you say the word China.

How is the Fortuner taking the new family member, still feeling loved ❤️?

Fortuner coping just fine.  In fact it did our groceries run today....and got rained on.  Now waiting for the rain to stop so I can dry it off and put the tarp back on so it can hibernate for a week or so.  I plan to drive it about once a week to keep the battery fully charged, circulated the fluids, etc. 😜

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 All MG EV's, Standard Range Ora Good Cat (not 500 version), base Tesla Model 3, all BYD cars in Thailand

 

LFP has another advantage, it has twice the charge cycles of NMC, it also safer especially in hot climates.

 

You will often find "Performance" versions of EV's use NMC because it has a higher energy density, but NMC is not ideal.

 

24 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

 

Sounds not dissimilar to the cost of a new engine in an ICE car.  Thank goodness batteries last more than 18 years.

44 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

 

 

Can you post the price in Baht?

 

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

Can you post the price in Baht?

 

 

 

On second thoughts don't bother you can't buy any of these cars in Thailand.

 

So pretty pointless posting it in the electric vehicles in Thailand discussion

23 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

On second thoughts don't bother you can't buy any of these cars in Thailand.

 

So pretty pointless posting it in the electric vehicles in Thailand discussion

Agree.   Also priced in countries where labor cost much more than TH.

 

Chances appear to be pretty slim, when it comes to the need to replace, the whole battery pack vs just a module of 2.   Too lazy to source TH sold EVs.  Choose wisely when buying.

 

"In the charts below, we show the number of owner-reported battery replacements in the Recurrent community of around 15,000 drivers":

source

Batteries don't last in Thai weather. If you get a proper warranty for life of vehicle,  go for it. But doubt the contract will be that simple.

 

Buy an evaporator cooler in Thailand along with your EV. See how well they both do.

 

Not sure why they sell the evap cooler in Big C when they don't work in humid weather. Same. Don't know why they have Battery EV when they know they won't work in 5 to 8 years.

44 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

On second thoughts don't bother you can't buy any of these cars in Thailand.

 

So pretty pointless posting it in the electric vehicles in Thailand discussion

 

another point to consider is how the price will decrease in a few years.

i believe it will become much cheaper (ev battery warranty is typically 8 years).

SAIC-CP have started making the MG 4 in Thailand now.

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40032564

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

 

Interesting.   Before seeing this I would have thought batteries would have been a larger percentage of an BEV cost. Seems to average around 21%. And I expect this percentages to drop significantly as more EVs are sold.   I expect some of the wild variations in percentage depends on how much of the battery electronics are enclosed within the overall battery pack or external to the battery pack....such as is the battery rectifier inboard to the battery assembly or external in the front drive motor area.  Varies among BEVs as to where it's located.

 

As mentioned, I expect battery costs to continue to drop significantly.   Below 2017 study showed BEV battery costs averaged around 35 to 50% of total vehicle cost.   Now around 6 years later it seems to be more like 21%.   In 6 more years will it be down around 10%?...have to wait and see I guess.

 

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

Batteries don't last in Thai weather. If you get a proper warranty for life of vehicle,  go for it. But doubt the contract will be that simple.

 

Buy an evaporator cooler in Thailand along with your EV. See how well they both do.

 

Not sure why they sell the evap cooler in Big C when they don't work in humid weather. Same. Don't know why they have Battery EV when they know they won't work in 5 to 8 years.

You are right, 12V lead acid batteries in tropical environments such as Thailand, Philippines typically last 2 to 3 years.  On my 2009 Fortuner which I've had 15 years I had to change the 12V lead acid battery approx every 2.5 years.   But 12V lead acid batteries are completely different technology/chemistry from EV lithium type batteries with their Battery Management Systems and battery cooling system..  An apples and oranges comparison.

 

 

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

Batteries don't last in Thai weather. If you get a proper warranty for life of vehicle,  go for it. But doubt the contract will be that simple.

 

Buy an evaporator cooler in Thailand along with your EV. See how well they both do.

 

Not sure why they sell the evap cooler in Big C when they don't work in humid weather. Same. Don't know why they have Battery EV when they know they won't work in 5 to 8 years.

 

Is your TimeMachine broken and stuck in last century?

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Is your TimeMachine broken and stuck in last century?

 

Ha! Brilliant, JB.

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

You are right, 12V lead acid batteries in tropical environments such as Thailand, Philippines typically last 2 to 3 years.  On my 2009 Fortuner which I've had 15 years I had to change the 12V lead acid battery approx every 2.5 years.   But 12V lead acid batteries are completely different technology/chemistry from EV lithium type batteries with their Battery Management Systems and battery cooling system..  An apples and oranges comparison.

 

 

 Use your EV regularly in Thailand and let me know, in 8 years, the capacity. Park it in a garage. That will help. I would not trust that lithium is not affected by heat. While running the batteries will be cooled for good reason. While parked in the hot sun, not. Time will tell and I don't really have the ability to time travel yet.  I'm waiting on parts.

4 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Don't know why they have Battery EV when they know they won't work in 5 to 8 years.

You know this as a fact based on a peer reviewed published study that you will now post links to, that EV batteries in Thailand last only 5 years.

@TimeMachine

Looking forward to reading it.

33 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

You know this as a fact based on a peer reviewed published study that you will now post links to, that EV batteries in Thailand last only 5 years.

@TimeMachine

Looking forward to reading it.

5 to 8, depending on owner usage habits and location.

Results posted after a bigger sample has been reviewed. Stay tuned.

 

 

3 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Results posted after a bigger sample has been reviewed

So no study has been posted….yet?

 

But you seemed very positive that potential EV batteries in Thailand would only last 5 years. 
 

So on what based did you come to that conclusion if it’s not based on a published study.

 

Did you just make it up?

 

 

10 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

5 to 8, depending on owner usage habits and location.

Results posted after a bigger sample has been reviewed. Stay tuned.

 

 

 

Hilarious!

11 hours ago, steve187 said:

what cars sold in Thailand are using LFP batteries, and are any EV cars built or planned to be built in Thailand

Not ignoring you - I think others have answered that point.

 

I still have my concerns on other matters (covered in a deleted post) but from what I've read about LFP batteries, provided they are mined responsibly, they seem to overcome the problems associated with other types.

2 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

Hilarious!

I’m keen to know more about Mr @TimeMachine  and his theory. 
 

He clearly doesn’t own an EV himself because he said

 

5 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Don't know why they have Battery EV when they know they won't work in 5 to 8 years.

Not the words of a man who bought an EV.
 

So his theory is not based on primary research, unless of course he has a friend who has an EV.
 

But surely if this man was his friend he would have reasoned with him against buying an EV.

 

No I think the friend theory is a bust. 

 

Maybe it’s something to do with the “evap cooler in Big C” which he seems to despise just as much as EV batteries.
 

Maybe there was a traumatic experience with the evap cooler from Big C which has led to an irrational mistrust of all technology 

Hoping Mr @TimeMachine replies with further insights 

 

4 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

So no study has been posted….yet?

 

But you seemed very positive that potential EV batteries in Thailand would only last 5 years. 
 

So on what based did you come to that conclusion if it’s not based on a published study.

 

Did you just make it up?

 

 

Based on nobody leaves their lithium batteries for laptops power drills and mobile phones sitting out in the sun.

4 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

I’m keen to know more about Mr @TimeMachine  and his theory. 
 

He clearly doesn’t own an EV himself because he said

 

Not the words of a man who bought an EV.
 

So his theory is not based on primary research, unless of course he has a friend who has an EV.
 

But surely if this man was his friend he would have reasoned with him against buying an EV.

 

No I think the friend theory is a bust. 

 

Maybe it’s something to do with the “evap cooler in Big C” which he seems to despise just as much as EV batteries.
 

Maybe there was a traumatic experience with the evap cooler from Big C which has led to an irrational mistrust of all technology 

Hoping Mr @TimeMachine replies with further insights 

 

Absolutely, the theory behind people wanting to sell you something to make money and not because it's good for you or the planet.

8 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You know this as a fact based on a peer reviewed published study that you will now post links to, that EV batteries in Thailand last only 5 years.

@TimeMachine

Looking forward to reading it.

Does anything from China last 5 years?

12 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Don't know why they have Battery EV when they know they won't work in 5 to 8 years.

 

Ok let’s look at the facts provided. 

 

We should start by defining terms like “they won’t work” that means zero battery capacity because a 50kWh battery with 1% battery can still drive about 3km

 

I will consider 3 alternatives Mr @TimeMachine 5 year and 8 year life  - his best and worse case scenarios as well as the most common battery warranty offered in Thailand of 8 year with no more than 70% degradation

 

Mr @TimeMachine has offered no primary or secondary research to support his theory so we will conduct some here.

 

This is a call out to all EV owners in Thailand please look at the graph below and consider the battery degradation your EV has suffered so far and please post a reply stating which line most closely represents the battery degradation you have suffered.

 

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

This is a call out to all EV owners in Thailand please look at the graph below and consider the battery degradation your EV has suffered so far and please post a reply stating which line most closely represents the battery degradation you have suffered.

 

I will go first. 

 

My oldest EV is now 2.5 years old and has suffered less than 2% battery degradation so better than the grey warranty line.

 

We now have one piece of real data for Thailand EVs

 

Anybody else?

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I will go first. 

 

My oldest EV is now 2.5 years old and has suffered less than 2% battery degradation so better than the grey warranty line.

 

We now have one piece of real data for Thailand EVs

 

Anybody else?

 

I don't know the level of battery degradation of my cars.

What I do know, based on my own research using one hundredth of my brain, is that TimeMachine's statement is so patently absurd it's not worth debating.

4 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Based on nobody leaves their lithium batteries for laptops power drills and mobile phones sitting out in the sun.

 

I wonder if Mr @TimeMachine knows about BMS and active battery cooling in EVs? Maybe if he did he might have suggested a longer battery life.

 

For Mr @TimeMachine benefit and any other ultracrepidarians who join us here to deposit their pearls of wisdom 💩

 

An EV’s battery gets most hot when it is producing power to drive the vehicle and when it’s being charged at high speed. This is when active cooling is initiated. If the battery gets too hot during charging the charging speed can be slowed or even stopped temporarily. Sophisticated battery monitoring systems and active cooling is what differentiates EV batteries from those that Mr @TimeMachine apparently has some experience with like power drill batteries. 

9 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

5 to 8, depending on owner usage habits and location.

Results posted after a bigger sample has been reviewed. Stay tuned.

 

 

 

Here's why you're wrong.

 

Tesla have been selling their EV's in hot states like  Arizona  for 14 years and data has been compiled on their cars that suggest battery degradation at that time is still less than 10%.

15 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

I don't know the level of battery degradation of my cars.

What I do know, based on my own research using one hundredth of my brain, is that TimeMachine's statement is so patently absurd it's not worth debating.

To that, I would add the below statement from someone whose industry relies a lot upon China.

 

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Does anything from China last 5 years?

 

Bias and prejudice really knows no bounds.

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

To that, I would add the below statement from someone whose industry relies a lot upon China.

 

 

Bias and prejudice really knows no bounds.

 

Cue: @transam

 

or in English, let's have some more ridiculous statements