Fake 1,000 baht notes everywhere at Thai market - one lady employee counts the cost

[CharlieH]

Several flame posts removed.

[superal]

9 hours ago, Moonlover said:

And perhaps it's time you caught up with the latest news from Thailand. The country might have a 21st century banking system, I'm not disputing that, but there's a lot of folks out there that haven't caught up with that yet.

 

There will always be cash in all countries but its use will/is subsiding . There is a good feeling to hold a bunch of high value bank notes in your hand as opposed to a bank card which although may hold an access to a large amount of money does not give the same pleasure . 

The Thai folks will gradually come around to the cashless system . There was a resistance in the UK at first and also I remember when receiving my weekly wage in a pay packet of real money and that gradually came to an end .

Digressing slightly , did you know that the covid virus is carried and passed to others by way of the bank note ?

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, superal said:

There will always be cash in all countries but its use will/is subsiding . There is a good feeling to hold a bunch of high value bank notes in your hand as opposed to a bank card which although may hold an access to a large amount of money does not give the same pleasure . 

The Thai folks will gradually come around to the cashless system . There was a resistance in the UK at first and also I remember when receiving my weekly wage in a pay packet of real money and that gradually came to an end .

Digressing slightly , did you know that the covid virus is carried and passed to others by way of the bank note ?

No matter what you think you believe Thai society on whole will not become a cashless society with bank transfers being done by CC or transferred by apps.  The lower rung, many of which subside on limited income and without a bank, like many migrant workers and there are millions of them, rely on using cash and get paid in cash daily.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, superal said:

There will always be cash in all countries but its use will/is subsiding . There is a good feeling to hold a bunch of high value bank notes in your hand as opposed to a bank card which although may hold an access to a large amount of money does not give the same pleasure . 

The Thai folks will gradually come around to the cashless system . There was a resistance in the UK at first and also I remember when receiving my weekly wage in a pay packet of real money and that gradually came to an end .

Digressing slightly , did you know that the covid virus is carried and passed to others by way of the bank note ?

I get your point, but remember that 50% of Thailand's population is rural and still live very much hand to mouth and few of them will get the good feeling of holding a bunch of high value notes in their hand. (unless they win the lottery)

 

My wife uses her sister's shop for some of our local requirements and there she does pay by direct bank transfer, but as far as I know that's the only time she makes non cash transactions. We also frequent the local markets for much of our grocery shopping and there it is all cash. I don't recall ever seeing a non cash payment. ( @Mac Mickmanus kindly note, it's not just old ladies selling carrots!) So the change you speak could be a long way down the tracks yet.

 

Oh and on the subject of Covid transfer via cash, here's an article I dug up. Have a nice (cash free) day.

 

https://health-desk.org/articles/can-covid-19-be-spread-through-money

[SAFETY FIRST]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Sounds like BS to me. How many market traders allow customers to pay with 1k notes? 

I reckon you're right. 

 

I get dirty looks when I pay for an item at Mini Big C with a 1000 baht note. 

 

[RafPinto]

21 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Not paying any taxes she should not complain. 

How is it difficult to apply for POS terminal and accept cards instead of cash? But no, they rather got f***ed themselves with funny money but still stay "black".

555

You want every single fruit seller and small restaurants on wheels accept card payments?

Wake up mate.
Come down from your horse.

[RafPinto]

4 hours ago, superal said:

There will always be cash in all countries but its use will/is subsiding . There is a good feeling to hold a bunch of high value bank notes in your hand as opposed to a bank card which although may hold an access to a large amount of money does not give the same pleasure . 

The Thai folks will gradually come around to the cashless system . There was a resistance in the UK at first and also I remember when receiving my weekly wage in a pay packet of real money and that gradually came to an end .

Digressing slightly , did you know that the covid virus is carried and passed to others by way of the bank note ?

I take the risk.

Bring me tomorrow all you have, in cash please.
If I get infected, up to me, like they say.

[billd766]

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How many "real local Thai Markets" have you been to to make that claim ?

People who have iphones are usually able to carry out transactions by phone , I expect that the only people who cannot do transactions by phone are the 70 year olds in markets in Issan selling the carrots they have grown .

   

Well here in Klong Lan Pattana, Kamphaeng Phet province there are 2 daily markets, plus the Monday afternoon, Wednesday morning and Saturday afternoon markets. Within a 15km radius there are at least 5 others every week that I know of, plus the normal weekday markets

 

That is around 20 markets every week where hundreds of Thais do their shopping and AFAIK there is not a single POS terminal at any off them.

 

It will be the same in most rural areas for Thailand I expect and there is a lot more of rural Thailand than urban Thailand and a lot more Thai people too.

[StayinThailand2much]

Is she colour-blind? That fake 1,000 looks more like a 100-baht-note as for the colour, plus the king's picture looks different.

[Moonlover]

19 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Is she colour-blind? That fake 1,000 looks more like a 100-baht-note as for the colour, plus the king's picture looks different.

Is she colour blind? Maybe she is. How good is her eye sight? What are the lighting conditions where her stall is? Easy for you to criticize when you don't know all the facts.

 

There is also one other factor. The level of weariness and suspicion. Despite the B. S. that you read on this forum, most Thais are honest and they expect honesty in return so their level of awareness is, I would suspect, a little bit low. They quite simply would not expect a dodgy note.

 

The printers and distributers of these notes know this and that's how they get away with it.

[NativeBob]

2 hours ago, RafPinto said:

555

You want every single fruit seller and small restaurants on wheels accept card payments?

666

Nope, I don't want it, mate. My point is that in 2022 the price for POS with SIM is quite low and the convenience is obvious. Its a solution of the "funny  money problem", just like literacy few centuries ago. There are still illiterate folks around and I really don't give a <deleted> about every single fruit vendor to be able to read, but well ... POS terminals help a lot in daily life. 

[Amusements]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:22 AM, webfact said:

She then handed over the chicken and the 810 baht change. 

 

The money was returned to Sudarat who said she would now be 1,200 baht out of pocket - just what she didn't need what with the state of her finances and the economy.

Obviously has a fake calculator too!

[ThailandRyan]

53 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

666

Nope, I don't want it, mate. My point is that in 2022 the price for POS with SIM is quite low and the convenience is obvious. Its a solution of the "funny  money problem", just like literacy few centuries ago. There are still illiterate folks around and I really don't give a <deleted> about every single fruit vendor to be able to read, but well ... POS terminals help a lot in daily life. 

Yet a small talad with maybe 20 sellers who work independently will never have a POS and I mean POS terminal.  Even here in BKK many folks will take your cash only but still take the 50/50 scan so they can get money from the government and the folks buying get it half off.  Cash is king and many do not trust the banks....try again

[scorecard]

On 5/2/2022 at 1:55 PM, JustAnotherFarang said:

I feel for this poor lady but what can you expect in a country that has so many dishonest people in so many guises

True, and unfortunate for those who are scammed, there's dishonest people in every country. 

[billd766]

8 hours ago, NativeBob said:

666

Nope, I don't want it, mate. My point is that in 2022 the price for POS with SIM is quite low and the convenience is obvious. Its a solution of the "funny  money problem", just like literacy few centuries ago. There are still illiterate folks around and I really don't give a <deleted> about every single fruit vendor to be able to read, but well ... POS terminals help a lot in daily life. 

To do that you will have to run electricity to every stall in every local daily or weekly stall in every market in Thailand. Even then I don't expect that every market trader, including the older people who simply sell some home grown vegetables will want to take it up.. Then you will have to persuade every buyer to have a smart phone and a bank account.

 

How about the food cars that are out on the roads every day going to the far flung villages? Will they need a POS as well?

[NativeBob]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

How about the food cars that are out on the roads every day going to the far flung villages? Will they need a POS as well?

How about those are battery run?
How about I'm not interesting in well-being of street vendors and their prosperity, I just made a point that cashless payments are quite affordable nowadays and surely prevent from "funny money" fraud, however [obviously] these are not going to happen soon?

How about those who grow and those who sell are different folks? 

How about the extremely low hygiene yet bloody high levels of "boosters", antibiotics and borax to increase their profits? Even some "thai marketing" tricks like "free range chicken", "halal meat" etc?

How about looking at calendar? Its a XXI century out there, year 2022. Things changed since Vietnam War, yet Siam seems stuck into some sort of time schism of eternal 70-s "Charisma" loop.

[ThailandRyan]

25 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

How about those are battery run?
How about I'm not interesting in well-being of street vendors and their prosperity, I just made a point that cashless payments are quite affordable nowadays and surely prevent from "funny money" fraud, however [obviously] these are not going to happen soon?

How about those who grow and those who sell are different folks? 

How about the extremely low hygiene yet bloody high levels of "boosters", antibiotics and borax to increase their profits? Even some "thai marketing" tricks like "free range chicken", "halal meat" etc?

How about looking at calendar? Its a XXI century out there, year 2022. Things changed since Vietnam War, yet Siam seems stuck into some sort of time schism of eternal 70-s "Charisma" loop.

You sure you live in Thailand?, Affordable to whom?  There are monthly costs and per use charges for the use of such systems, and these folks are not in a position to expend more then they take in and to live.  if you do live here you sure sound like an unhappy person with your inability to understand the economics of a 3rd world country and society.  Sorry folks do not meet your standards here, if thats the way you feel why are you here or better yet why do you complain if you know these facts.  You, I and the other expats are not anywhere close to being in a position to change what you view, only this government can and it seems that they could care less.....

Edited May 4, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been removed.

[billd766]

45 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

How about those are battery run?
How about I'm not interesting in well-being of street vendors and their prosperity, I just made a point that cashless payments are quite affordable nowadays and surely prevent from "funny money" fraud, however [obviously] these are not going to happen soon?

How about those who grow and those who sell are different folks? 

Even some "thai marketing" tricks like "free range chicken", "halal meat" etc?

How about looking at calendar? Its a XXI century out there, year 2022. Things changed since Vietnam War, yet Siam seems stuck into some sort of time schism of eternal 70-s "Charisma" loop.

Are there any battery powered or 12v car powered POS machines and what is their cost.

 

I know this is the 21st century and it may well be in the bigger towns and cities but it isn't in rural Thailand which has more areas and smaller markets and traders.

 

How about those who grow and those who sell are different folks? But both those who grow and those who sell are also buyers at other stalls and shops.

 

How about the extremely low hygiene yet bloody high levels of "boosters", antibiotics and borax to increase their profits? 

 

That I have no answer for as I am not a producer but the worst offenders are most probably the multi billion baht companies such as CP and the others. If you are  contract farmer to them then they will supply you with all you need and give you a fixed price in return.

 

How about I'm not interesting in well-being of street vendors and their prosperity. I sort of figured that bit out from your posts and you probably live in a city or a town.

 

If the traders are forced into POS machines then the only way to pay for them is to put up their prices so once again the customer pays.

 

[superal]

On 5/3/2022 at 8:56 AM, Moonlover said:

I get your point, but remember that 50% of Thailand's population is rural and still live very much hand to mouth and few of them will get the good feeling of holding a bunch of high value notes in their hand. (unless they win the lottery)

 

My wife uses her sister's shop for some of our local requirements and there she does pay by direct bank transfer, but as far as I know that's the only time she makes non cash transactions. We also frequent the local markets for much of our grocery shopping and there it is all cash. I don't recall ever seeing a non cash payment. ( @Mac Mickmanus kindly note, it's not just old ladies selling carrots!) So the change you speak could be a long way down the tracks yet.

 

Oh and on the subject of Covid transfer via cash, here's an article I dug up. Have a nice (cash free) day.

 

https://health-desk.org/articles/can-covid-19-be-spread-through-money

I agree that as long as there are the low paid / day to day paid workers , there will always be cash transactions .  Higher up the ladder " cash in the hand " for work rendered will attract a discount and is not easy to trace by tax collectors . That transaction has almost disappeared in the UK . Here in Thailand , those who are employed in the cities will and are using cards and apps to pay bills  and even in my ladies semi rural restaurant , customers often pay by their phone app / direct transfer .

Your link about covid spreading through bank notes and coins shows that it happens and especially in a typical market environment where money is passed back and forth many times in humid conditions . Finally , cashless transactions do not always need bank cards as you point out with your wife paying with her phone app and direct bank transfer , in her local market .

In the UK ( and most other western countries ) cash purchases are in the minority . The UK has seen 50% of its banks close in recent years and all because of online buying and contactless payments .            The days of people queuing up in banks and post offices to draw money or pay bills are all but gone .  

[NativeBob]

55 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You sure you live in Thailand?, Affordable to whom?  There are monthly costs and per use charges for the use of such systems, and these folks are not in a position to expend more then they take in and to live.  if you do live here you sure sound like an unhappy person with your inability to understand the economics of a 3rd world country and society.  Sorry folks do not meet your standards here, if thats the way you feel why are you here or better yet why do you complain if you know these facts.  You, I and the other expats are not anywhere close to being in a position to change what you view, only this government can and it seems that they could care less.....

we are loosing the main point: there are funny money and thai street vendors are victims. Obviously cashiers in malls are better educated and less vulnerable to fraudsters. I only suggested that cashless payment is the solution, as the quality of "funny money" is instantly improving while folks at wet markets and street vendors are not getting smarter. That is all and the rest is simply irrelevant ) 

Peace 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, NativeBob said:

we are loosing the main point: there are funny money and thai street vendors are victims. Obviously cashiers in malls are better educated and less vulnerable to fraudsters. I only suggested that cashless payment is the solution, as the quality of "funny money" is instantly improving while folks at wet markets and street vendors are not getting smarter. That is all and the rest is simply irrelevant ) 

Peace 

So you believe that the cashiers in the malls are better educated and less vulnerable when it comes to fraudsters.  I think you have missed the point, Cash is king for street vendors, and then many of them do not have the fancy equipment that corporate or large mall shops have.  If the world was a perfect place and Thailand had the infrastructure in place, and banks subsidized the POS machines, I could agree to an extent.  However, we are talking about folks who sell their own wares and food to the locals and public.  There will always be unscrupulous people in this world who try to take advantage of folks.  Many of the elderly business folks get taken advantage of as well by folks using diversionary tactics in order to steal.  Fake note passing has been a problem the world over, not just here in Thailand.  The entire world has a long way to go itself before a cashless society can be undertaken at 100%.

[superal]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

So you believe that the cashiers in the malls are better educated and less vulnerable when it comes to fraudsters.  I think you have missed the point, Cash is king for street vendors, and then many of them do not have the fancy equipment that corporate or large mall shops have.  If the world was a perfect place and Thailand had the infrastructure in place, and banks subsidized the POS machines, I could agree to an extent.  However, we are talking about folks who sell their own wares and food to the locals and public.  There will always be unscrupulous people in this world who try to take advantage of folks.  Many of the elderly business folks get taken advantage of as well by folks using diversionary tactics in order to steal.  Fake note passing has been a problem the world over, not just here in Thailand.  The entire world has a long way to go itself before a cashless society can be undertaken at 100%.

Western financial institutions have been promoting the cashless society for many years as it gives them lower overheads having not to employ so many staff , pilfering and in house theft kept to a minimum . Very few if any western companies pay their staff in cash . Funny money is avoided along with machines that detect fake bank notes that are in most banks . On top of this , if you try to make a large deposit you will be asked , " where did the money come from " . In emerging countries there will always be cash as in the circumstances that you stated earlier . Back to the main topic and I can only quote the UK when if I try to pay for a purchase in a shop with a £ 50 note , quite often the response is " sorry we have no change or we do not change large notes " If I am out for an evening in Thailand I will always try to carry 100 baht notes only