Is Thailand Pass Insurance a scam?

[Wytchend]

I was watching a video on YT today asking is TP Insurance a scam?

 

In order to make an informed judgement, I have decided to ask a simple question.

Has anyone made a successful claim on any of the ones offered when completing the TP?

 

Will be interesting to hear what I suspect already? 

[bkk6060]

It seems there have been enough claims paid to cause insurers to suffer serious losses.

 

 

Sixteen Thai insurance companies suffering losses from cheap COVID-19 policies they began selling last year are crossing their fingers that the regulator will allow them to revoke the policies.

Ten are listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand, and they recently reported a combined 5.8 billion baht ($176 million) loss for the third quarter through September, according to their earnings reports.

Syn Mun Kong Insurance endured the biggest net loss, 3.7 billion baht, largely due to paying out 6.8 billion baht in claims, a jump of 339% from a year earlier. Of the total payout, 6 billion baht went to COVID claims.

"The reason for the rise in losses in the third quarter is the rise in COVID claims," Syn Mun Kong said in its earnings report.

[Ohyesuare]

10 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It seems there have been enough claims paid to cause insurers to suffer serious losses.

 

 

Sixteen Thai insurance companies suffering losses from cheap COVID-19 policies they began selling last year are crossing their fingers that the regulator will allow them to revoke the policies.

Ten are listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand, and they recently reported a combined 5.8 billion baht ($176 million) loss for the third quarter through September, according to their earnings reports.

Syn Mun Kong Insurance endured the biggest net loss, 3.7 billion baht, largely due to paying out 6.8 billion baht in claims, a jump of 339% from a year earlier. Of the total payout, 6 billion baht went to COVID claims.

"The reason for the rise in losses in the third quarter is the rise in COVID claims," Syn Mun Kong said in its earnings report.

Also some that are no longer accepting new buyers for their COVID insurance.

[Liverpool Lou]

44 minutes ago, Wytchend said:

I was watching a video on YT today asking is TP Insurance a scam?

 

In order to make an informed judgement, I have decided to ask a simple question.

Has anyone made a successful claim on any of the ones offered when completing the TP?

 

Will be interesting to hear what I suspect already? 

You think that you can make an "informed" judgement based on the  numbers coming from a handful of Thaivisa members?    What if no one responds that they have made a successful claim, will that cause you to claim that the scheme must be a scam?

[Tropicalevo]

How can it be a scam?

You choose the insurance company.  It does not have to be a Thai one. Just as long as it meets the criteria set out in the Thailand Pass.

[Kopitiam]

44 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It seems there have been enough claims paid to cause insurers to suffer serious losses.

 

 

Sixteen Thai insurance companies suffering losses from cheap COVID-19 policies they began selling last year are crossing their fingers that the regulator will allow them to revoke the policies.

Ten are listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand, and they recently reported a combined 5.8 billion baht ($176 million) loss for the third quarter through September, according to their earnings reports.

Syn Mun Kong Insurance endured the biggest net loss, 3.7 billion baht, largely due to paying out 6.8 billion baht in claims, a jump of 339% from a year earlier. Of the total payout, 6 billion baht went to COVID claims.

"The reason for the rise in losses in the third quarter is the rise in COVID claims," Syn Mun Kong said in its earnings report.

The OP is referring to covid insurance for Thailand Pass.

[NanLaew]

If you bought it because TP said you needed it to enter paradise and never paid it no mind, it's not a scam.

 

For the Thai bashers (most who haven't even left the country since before Covid came along and thus never, ever had a need for it), it's a scam perpetrated on farangs (because they hate us) and always will be.

[NanLaew]

53 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

How can it be a scam?

You choose the insurance company.  It does not have to be a Thai one. Just as long as it meets the criteria set out in the Thailand Pass.

Oh dear. The usual suspects aren't going to like your logic. No sir, not one little bit.

[internationalism]

there are countless insurance policies (in thailand and from around the world).

I had simultaneously 2 covid policies, which were not made for thailand pass. So I had to get a proper health insurance covering $50k.

One of those covid insurances covered my positive hospitalisation. I am still waiting for 200k lump sum money from the other one under bankruptcy law. I was told by a private hospital nurse, who deals with patient's insurance, that they will pay with delay. 

My health insurance refused to reimburse any hospital fees.

 

Now I have covid from fdw for 4200b yearly, covering 700k baht, which allows to enter unlimited times. It has some other limitations and I will see when possibly claiming within the next year. I don't mind at all. I chose the cheapest possible one. 

When I will get windfall of backlogged 200k I will be richer some 110k then before pandemic.

In principle, all insurance is scam. Just know how to play against them 

[orchis]

I did . January. 10 day quarantine, very light symptoms. Didn't see a bill, Dhipaya paid directly to hospital/hospitel, 120 K thb.

Edited May 15, 2022 by orchis

[proton]

3 hours ago, orchis said:

I did . January. 10 day quarantine, very light symptoms. Didn't see a bill, Dhipaya paid directly to hospital/hospitel, 120 K thb.

So it's the hospital scamming!

[Puccini]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

So it's the hospital scamming!

How and whom was this unnamed "hospital/hospitel" scamming?

[orchis]

Just now, proton said:

So it's the hospital scamming!

not really.

[Robin]

The sudden insistence on Covid insurance for almost every means of entering Thailand, and pushing Thai companies which will provide this insurance, could suggest  that the well-being of tourists is not the primary objective of these policies.

A scam is some ploy which gets your money under false pretences, often offering something too good to be true.

Compulsory Covid insurance is not this, it is more Thai opportunism, trying to extract more money from fewer tourists.

Would it be preferable if Thailand was more transparent with this and simply charged 10,000 Baht for a tourist visa.

BKK Post gives daily figures for new Covid cases in Thailand. 

How many of these are Farang tourists who entered under the Thailand Pass scheme?

As every 'tourist' entering Thailand now has to have been vaccinated, insuring against them catching Covid might be quite a good risk.

[wombat]

Like old mate says...

Follow the money. 

[Old Croc]

Even before covid was a thing I worked out that the words Thailand and Insurance, when linked, was a scam.

[topt]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

Thailand and Insurance, when linked, was a scam.

Bull excreta

Car Insurance........

House Insurance.........

 

I have claimed and been paid for both relatively recently 

 

 

[internationalism]

6 hours ago, Robin said:

The sudden insistence on Covid insurance for almost every means of entering Thailand, and pushing Thai companies which will provide this insurance, could suggest  that the well-being of tourists is not the primary objective of these policies.

A scam is some ploy which gets your money under false pretences, often offering something too good to be true.

Compulsory Covid insurance is not this, it is more Thai opportunism, trying to extract more money from fewer tourists.

Would it be preferable if Thailand was more transparent with this and simply charged 10,000 Baht for a tourist visa.

BKK Post gives daily figures for new Covid cases in Thailand. 

How many of these are Farang tourists who entered under the Thailand Pass scheme?

As every 'tourist' entering Thailand now has to have been vaccinated, insuring against them catching Covid might be quite a good risk.

that "sudden" is from July 2020, when borders opened. That was for a long time covid policy $100k, falling to $50k as a health policy, and later falling again to $20k and now $10k.

Thai insurance companies are obvious choice for those living in thailand, as there was an option of choosing health policies that are not much more expensive than just simple covid policies. So covering all illness.

For those incoming to Thailand a tourist insurance from their own countries or international companies from the net.

An advantage of thai insurance was cover for asymptomatic hospitalisation/hospitel (that changed from 15.02) mandated by the government requirements - that's why several insurance companies are struggling or went to bankruptcy.

Many Thai citizens, probably in millions, took them voluntarily over a year ago (and even 2 years ago), not for travel purpose, but to have a higher quality of medical care in private hospitals or even in the governmental hospitals - private room.

 

I think that charging 10k for a tourist visa (which would include insurance) is opposite to transparency. There are now covid policies from 4200b per year and multiple entry. Most tourists do enter on visa exempt. But a large part enter on many other visas, than tourist one.

There would be 300b tourist tax included in airfare from August. It's partly health related, but not covid specific.  Non tourists are excluded from this tax.

 

As to statistics for foreign tourists - there is non one from May, because there no more any tests and not any other measures (no sandboxes). 

Very few tourists do enter on AQ 5 days quarantine - those, who are not vaxed

Edited May 16, 2022 by internationalism

[Old Croc]

30 minutes ago, topt said:

Bull excreta

Car Insurance........

House Insurance.........

 

I have claimed and been paid for both relatively recently 

 

 

To explain to those who fail to see past the end of their nose, I was talking about the big picture not some individual's experience with a claim.  Obviously most genuine claims have to be paid else they wouldn't continue to exist. However, there are many aspects to the industry in Thailand other than some pedant's individual case. In my assessment I consider the inflated cost of policies, the many exclusions making the policies redundant, the sales pressure (especially targeting naïve individuals in rural communities to buy long term valueless policies), the blatant partnerships with legislators, and yes, the many times they fail to pay out on technicalities.

 

I would explain further but find your opening remark pathetic.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Old Croc

[kennw]

17 minutes ago, internationalism said:

that "sudden" is from July 2020, when borders opened. That was for a long time covid policy $100k, falling to $50k as a health policy, and later falling again to $20k and now $10k.

Thai insurance companies are obvious choice for those living in thailand, as there was an option of choosing health policies that are not much more expensive than just simple covid policies. So covering all illness.

For those incoming to Thailand a tourist insurance from their own countries or international companies from the net.

An advantage of thai insurance was cover for asymptomatic hospitalisation/hospitel (that changed from 15.02) mandated by the government requirements - that's why several insurance companies are struggling or went to bankruptcy.

Many Thai citizens, probably in millions, took them voluntarily over a year ago (and even 2 years ago), not for travel purpose, but to have a higher quality of medical care in private hospitals or even in the governmental hospitals - private room.

 

I think that charging 10k for a tourist visa (which would include insurance) is opposite to transparency. There are now covid policies from 4200b per year and multiple entry. Most tourists do enter on visa exempt. But a large part enter on many other visas, than tourist one.

There would be 300b tourist tax included in airfare from August. It's partly health related, but not covid specific.  Non tourists are excluded from this tax.

 

As to statistics for foreign tourists - there is non one from May, because there no more any tests and not any other measures (no sandboxes). 

Very few tourists do enter on AQ 5 days quarantine - those, who are not vaxed

I have yet to see any factual information showing the pay outs by insurance companies specifically for claims by tourists and non Thai returnees for covid claims made under the Thai Pass compulsory insurance. All the indications are that the losses the insurance companies claim to have made were due to local Thais who took out the promotional covid insurance, not Thai Pass or international travel related. 

Like to see some real facts please. 

[CMBob]

17 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

It seems there have been enough claims paid to cause insurers to suffer serious losses.

 

The OP is asking about the covid coverage required for Thailand Pass and the losses you mention (and were widely publicized) relate to millions of cheap covid policies that some insurers sold mainly in 2020 (before covid insurance was contemplated or required for entry into Thailand).  As concerns the policies sold (and required) for either the prior Certificate of Entry or for the fairly new Thailand Pass, I haven't seen a single thing (newspaper article, etc.) saying there was either coverage or a problem with those policies......so my guess is that the answer to the OP's question is largely unknown.  As concerns posts here, I do see the one in this thread by poster Orchis and that's the first post I recall seeing indicating that there has been no problem with coverage (I presume that poster got the coverage for Thailand Pass but I could be wrong there). 

[Bday Prang]

          I bought insurance, as required for the Thailand pass, from AXA it was the cheapest I could find but I didn't really look very hard.  I was PCR tested at the test and go hotel and it showed positive. I was totally asymptomatic . I was subsequently transferred to a quarantine hotel for 7 nights the total cost was 17,000 baht. so not really the end of the world. 

          I had plenty of time to read through the small print and was pretty much convinced AXA was not going to pay anything. So with nothing to lose I completed the claim form and uploaded the required documents and e mailed in to AXA.

           Somewhere on the AXA website it said that e mailed claims would not be considered and that everything would need to be copied and sent by post to the Bangkok office, but to be honest I just couldn't be bothered , so I was further convinced that nothing was going to happen, and somewhat unsurprisingly, despite a follow-up email I received no correspondence whatsoever regarding my claim

         Fast forward a month and I was at the ATM withdrawing some cash and was somewhat surprised to notice that I had about 17,000 baht more in my account than there should have been !

         So it would appear that they did in fact pay I would add that the cost of the policy was just over 9000 baht so even somebody as cynical as me would have to admit that as far as I am concerned I certainly haven't been scammed as such. But I am still surprised that I heard nothing at all from AXA regarding my claim

[LukKrueng]

9 hours ago, Robin said:

As every 'tourist' entering Thailand now has to have been vaccinated, insuring against them catching Covid might be quite a good risk.

Ummm, vaxed people get infected, some with mild symptoms, some with severe symptoms - just like unvaxed people. If you ask me, I'd say the vaccines are the big scam...

As for insurance - I know a Thai guy who insured his whole family for COVID. All of them vaccinated, all of them got infected with mild symptoms and self isolated at home. All of them got paid by the insurer 50k BAHT a pop...

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

For the Thai bashers (most who haven't even left the country since before Covid came along and thus never, ever had a need for it), it's a scam perpetrated on farangs (because they hate us) and always will be.

For the irrational Thai bashers (most who haven't even left the country since before Covid came along and thus never, ever had a need for it), it's a scam perpetrated on farangs (because they hate us) and always will be.

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, internationalism said:

In principle, all insurance is scam. Just know how to play against them 

Garbage, all insurance is not a scam.  It is a calculated gamble for both parties, that's all. 

 

The 90%+ of claimants, in general, who are paid out on their insurance claims do not regard it as a scam.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Even before covid was a thing I worked out that the words Thailand and Insurance, when linked, was a scam.

You "worked it out" quite wrong, then. 

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

and yes, the many times they fail to pay out on technicalities.

You mean policy conditions, clearly stated by law, on policy doucuments?   

 

"...many times they fail to pay out..."

Really?  Are you going by hearsay about those "many times that they fail to pay out" or do you have something empirical that justifies that assertion?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

 ...I heard nothing at all from AXA regarding my claim

Yes, you did, you saw their money in your account and your bank statement would have shown you the money that the insurer sent you!   What more did they need to do, you expected a running email commentary on the entire claim process?

Edited May 16, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, Wytchend said:

Has anyone made a successful claim on any of the ones offered when completing the TP?

 

Will be interesting to hear what I suspect already? 

Sure looks as though your suspicion was not very well-founded judging by the responses so far! 

[internationalism]

4 hours ago, kennw said:

I have yet to see any factual information showing the pay outs by insurance companies specifically for claims by tourists and non Thai returnees for covid claims made under the Thai Pass compulsory insurance. All the indications are that the losses the insurance companies claim to have made were due to local Thais who took out the promotional covid insurance, not Thai Pass or international travel related. 

Like to see some real facts please. 

any insurance, domestic or international, was paying for hospitalisation. There were some issues with free insurance from Emirates.

As somebody mentioned below his axa for 9k policy did pay even for 7 nights hospitel some 17k. I am not sure about his statements, because quarantine was rather 10 days, much more expensive than 17k and not covered by any policy - looks like he was triple lucky.  

My 10 days hospitalisation was covered by dhippaya for a medical bill some 50k (even my policy cover was for 100k). They didn't want to cover cost of room, food, cleaning for the remaining 92k - I just run out from hospital with no any consequences. My health insurance has 300k deductible, so no use. Still waiting for 200k lump sum from south east insurance.

Yes, those cheap covid policies for 450-1100b were not enough for certificate of entry requirements. But they still were used to cover hospitalisation, as in my case.

For CoE and later for Travel Pass was Tune insurance for 15k per year (but it allowed only 1x entry). For multi entry was a proper health insurance from around 25k per year covering over $100k - that was the best deal, included accident.

For tourists there is travel insurance, around $50-100 per month, depending on age. From 15.2 there is a problem with hospitalisation, because the government changed rules, so no asymptomatic and hospitalisation only for 39.5C for over 24h or breathing rate over 25 per minute are required.

The only scammers, who benefited from those rules, were private hospitals. Partially also AQ and sandbox hotels, which were offering only very strict policies, charging additional fees etc.

The whole quarantine projects were superwised not by the ministry of health, internal or international affairs, but by (surprise) the ministry of defence. So it's this ministry which benefited from all abuse of rules. 

Affair with the ministry of defence became apparent around 11.2020, when thai repatriate posted online appalling conditions from the Ambassado Hotel in Na Jomtien. It was the spokesman from that ministry which threaten this citizen with defamation

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by internationalism