Wisconsin-middle-schoolers-accused-of-sexual-harassment-for-using-wrong-pronouns

[bbko]

On 5/20/2022 at 4:27 PM, EVENKEEL said:

I have a kid in Thailand and I'd rather educate her here in Thailand then subject her to the loonie tunes in USA. Better education my as*.

There's always going to be high & low points in any country's school system, I for one wouldn't use this debate on PC pronouns as a deal breaker.  

 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 5/22/2022 at 7:50 AM, EVENKEEL said:

What's troubling is 3 kids in trouble for using proper English. That's it, they refused to use improper pronouns. Stop the insanity.

What constitutes ‘proper English’ has always been subject to constant change, it’s why we no longer speak like Chaucer did...

 

 

[simon43]

21 hours ago, Denim said:

Look at that cow over there in the field. It's eating grass.

 

I think using the word ' it ' for those uncomfortable being ' sexually pigeonholed ' would make things a lot simpler.

 

We use it on animals and humans are a kind of animal so ............why not ?

'It' (มัน) is often used by Thai people (especially bar girls etc) to refer to farang. (If you don't understand Thai, then maybe you are not aware of this!  I hear use of this word many, many times in bars when the women refer to their BF/customer).

[Denim]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

'It' (มัน) is often used by Thai people (especially bar girls etc) to refer to farang. (If you don't understand Thai, then maybe you are not aware of this!  I hear use of this word many, many times in bars when the women refer to their BF/customer).

Yes....I speak , read and write Thai fluently and on the rare occasion I have been in a bar with a friend have heard it used in this way , which bothers me about as much as being referred to as a falang , that is , not one iota.

 

Some people are excessively sensitive and take anything that diverges from the strictly polite form of address as a gross personal insult directed specifically at themselves and nobody else.  The current term for these people is snowflakes. The entire universe and all of creation revolves exactly and precisely around them and nobody else. Their own sensitivities and foibles trump everyone elses .

 

Getting back to the OP , There is a simple way to address these people. That is to not use any pronoun with them at all because if he and she causes offence then it will also cause offense.

To use they or them is not only grammatically incorrect it is just plain churlish.

 

Therefore , the simplest solution is just to call them by their name , Tom , Dick or Harry  and if their own birth name causes them offence then they can get it changed by deed poll.

[ThailandRyan]

On 5/20/2022 at 4:38 PM, StayinThailand2much said:

Seen that a lot in recent TV shows... So, everyone can pick the pronoun now they choose? Can I insist on using the royal we, referring to myself, when travelling to the States?

Why not just use the third person speech when talking about oneself. If you say "It" went to the wrong gendered bathroom for non gendered people, I am sure you would be executed.  So now instead of he went to the bathroom, you need to say "Them went to the bathroom"  so forked up this world has become.  I would be surprised if they were not charged with not using the new word for the bathroom, that being "gender neutral bathroom". 

https://www.nccj.org/blog/gender-neutral-bathrooms-some-ways-meet-everyones-needs

 

See what prince started by using this symbol:

[KanchanaburiGuy]

Hmmm........ 

 

There always seems to be a lot of confusion when this topic comes up. And that amazes me. It amazes me because it really isn't confusing, at all. 

 

There's SEX........ and there's GENDER. They are not the same thing. 

 

Why is this confusing? 

 

I dunno. Maybe what needs to happen for people to grasp THIS simple concept........... is for them to grasp a different simple concept:

 

There is a duality to human existence, Mind and Body. 

 

The Mind is capable of thinking things and doing things the Body can't even conceive of. 

 

The Body can and does do things the Mind has absolutely no control over. Much of how the body functions is pure CRUISE CONTROL, with no active input whatsoever from the Mind. 

 

SEX is the BODY. There are only two sexes. Two. Which sex a body is, is determined by genetics: Male or Female. (Yes, there ARE some variations on this, mutations. But that's just what nature does. Nature experiments with different mutations, trying to see if one is superior another. But, to date none of these variations have resulted in a THIRD sex......... just confusing inter-minglings of the existing TWO sexes!) 

 

GENDER is the MIND. Gender is how the mind perceives  itself. And since Gender is not a physical, tangible construct but merely a perception............ there's really no reason there can't be more than two. 

 

Sex is limited to two. Gender isn't. 

 

And lastly, because the Mind and the Body are different things............ and because genetics doesn't perfectly replicate from one generation to the next.......... (indeed, it's not even supposed to!)........... it makes perfect sense that sometimes there will be a disconnect between genetically assigned body parts....... and one's perception about who they are! (Because the part of the genone that defines how one perceives oneself......... IS DIFFERENT FROM......... the part of the genome that defines sexual characteristics!) 

 

If you understand and accept the Mind/Body duality of human existence........... (and there's literally no reason not to!)............ 

 

Then there should never be a reason to confuse the difference between.......... 

 

* Sex (there're only TWO) and

 

* Gender (there are as many as we choose to accept, with the proviso that there ought to be a sound reasons for accepting new ones; reasons better than  "because I say so!") 

 

-----------------

 

Personally, I think until there is some clinical way to distinguish between fad identity claims, delusional identity claims, and real, genetically-based perceptions/misperceptions.......... 

 

........... We should err on the side of the status quo.

 

Like all other "rights"......... you can identify YOURSELF any way you want to. But you have no right to demand that others comply with your predelictions! (The old "Your rights end where my nose begins!") 

 

----------------

 

As for the OP............ 

 

I can make good arguments both ways.............. so I just don't know how to answer! 

 

Personally I gravitate toward being polite. But what's considered polite is taking on whole new meanings, these days!

 

????????????

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

10 hours ago, LarrySR said:

Sadly in the USA, the right wing media has weaponized the intolerant & is intent on keeping the viewers in a tizzy.

This week, the homophobes are losing sleep over "pronouns." Last week it was "bathrooms" that had them popping vessels.

A week before they were all in tears over "cancel culture" & "statues."  In a few more months the right wing press will once again roll out the "war on Christmas" (they don't want to say happy holidays!!!)... and no doubt a steady dose of outrage over "Caravans of Immigrants, AntiFa and BLM."

This sounds an awful lot like far-left propaganda.

 

Fairly regular people are questioning things like pronouns, the safety of women and children, fairness and safety in sports, the legitimacy of Antifa and BLM, and so on.

 

You can lie all you want, but people are waking up to this sort of thing.  The days of scaring regular people who think "ooooh, I don't want to offend anyone" and just let themselves get walked over are rapidly running out.

[Yellowtail]

On 5/21/2022 at 2:12 PM, EVENKEEL said:

How is my question troll baiting, either you agree with made up mandatory pronouns or you don't. Very simple.

Everything they can't or don't want to answer is troll-bating. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

17 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Harassment and bullying has always been a part of misbehavior in schools, sadly it has not always been investigated or otherwise dealt with.

 

Grade school kids harassing and bullying other grade school kids wrt their gender is troubling behavior.

 

I don’t feel triggered by reports that such behavior is being investigated.

 

 

 

 

Seem like it was being investigated and being dealt with when I was  kid in California, how old are you? 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

On 5/22/2022 at 5:01 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Take another look at the OP. 

 

What it's REALLY about is one group wanting to "live their lives their own way"............. (the students being punished for choosing correct, traditional, English language pronouns!).......... being punished.......... because another group demands they conform to their will! 

 

There's nothing wrong with people "living their lives"........... EXCEPT.......... when doing so impacts others. 

 

If you are a singular who demands to be called by a plural ............ thus breaking the rules of the English language that a school is supposed to be teaching (for example).......... and those singular/plural rules have been used and taught for hundreds of years.......... I think the ones breaking the status quo........... really ought to be the ones who back down. 

 

Cheers! 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

36 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Seem like it was being investigated and being dealt with when I was  kid in California, how old are you? 

Yes, but in the OP......... who is it that is REALLY being "bullied and harassed?" 

 

Isn't it actually the ones who are being punished for using the very same pronouns that have appeared in textbooks and primers for hundreds of years........ and undoubtedly are also taught in the textbooks the school itself provides? 

 

The fact is........ bullying and harassment can go BOTH WAYS on this subject........... and does! 

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, but in the OP......... who is it that is REALLY being "bullied and harassed?" 

 

Isn't it actually the ones who are being punished for using the very same pronouns that have appeared in textbooks and primers for hundreds of years........ and undoubtedly are also taught in the textbooks the school itself provides? 

 

The fact is........ bullying and harassment can go BOTH WAYS on this subject........... and does! 

And try to find any real data on the subject, you get stuck in an endless loop of ridiculous regurgitations.

 

But, I lot of people making a lot of money exploiting these poor kid, well intended or otherwise. 

[mikebike]

15 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

that have appeared in textbooks and primers for hundreds of years

Yeah, there's a conservative for ya.

 

"Its always been this way. I cannot understand change. Change scares me. Please leave things the way they were 100s of years ago...

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Seem like it was being investigated and being dealt with when I was  kid in California, how old are you? 

My age is not the topic of discussion, nor is this California.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Take another look at the OP. 

 

What it's REALLY about is one group wanting to "live their lives their own way"............. (the students being punished for choosing correct, traditional, English language pronouns!).......... being punished.......... because another group demands they conform to their will! 

 

There's nothing wrong with people "living their lives"........... EXCEPT.......... when doing so impacts others. 

 

If you are a singular who demands to be called by a plural ............ thus breaking the rules of the English language that a school is supposed to be teaching (for example).......... and those singular/plural rules have been used and taught for hundreds of years.......... I think the ones breaking the status quo........... really ought to be the ones who back down. 

 

Cheers! 

Nonsense, it’s one group of kids repeatedly harassing and bullying another group of kids.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

And try to find any real data on the subject, you get stuck in an endless loop of ridiculous regurgitations.

 

But, I lot of people making a lot of money exploiting these poor kid, well intended or otherwise. 

Well that’s a claim for which you’ll struggle to find data to back it up with.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

47 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Yeah, there's a conservative for ya.

 

"Its always been this way. I cannot understand change. Change scares me. Please leave things the way they were 100s of years ago...

Fair chunks of my like was spent owning and operating retail stores.

 

Every once in a while, a man would come in to buy something who happened to be a Doctor. Usually, of course, I wouldn't know this, so I'd address him as Mister. Can't tell you how may times they'd respond with a variation on.......... "It's Doctor, actually." 

 

Only once in all those times was I brave enough/foolish enough to ask, "I'm curious, when you became a Doctor, did you stop being a Mister?"

 

(I find there's a fair bit of arrogance associated with insisting on being called "Doctor"....... especially when OUR interaction has nothing to do with that!) 

 

When you're talking about a change that supplants something that is perfectly valid and true............. (insisting on Doctor when Mister is equally true)........... then you're frequently talking about nothing more than change for change's sake. 

 

Since you clearly intend "conservative" to be seen as an insult, let me just point out this.......... 

 

NOT making conservative decisions when the situation calls for them........... is lunacy. 

 

Cheers! 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nonsense, it’s one group of kids repeatedly harassing and bullying another group of kids.

Correctly using the standard pronouns that have existed in the English language for hundreds of years.......... is neither harrassment nor bullying. 

 

Punishing someone for correctly  using the same pronouns that get taught by the school and undoubtedly appear in the school's own textbooks.......... is. 

 

Besides, these being kids and kids being how they are........... I'd bet the farm that the kids who wouldn't conform to new age new-speak.......... probably got a lot more grief than the "trans" kids ever did! 

 

Cheers! 

[Yellowtail]

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well that’s a claim for which you’ll struggle to find data to back it up with.

Isn't that what I said?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Isn't that what I said?

Admitting your claims are unsubstantiated doesn’t get you off on making unsubstantiated claims.

[bendejo]

On 5/20/2022 at 5:12 PM, LarrySR said:

Same story about ‘pronouns in a Wisconsin school’ is front page news on Fox, NY Post, Daily Mail, Washington Examiner. 
Spreading their daily dose of hate to agitate the “base.”
Imagine that. 
 

 

The same rags that will beat on endlessly about their god-given freedoms delivered by the US Constitution.  Fear fear fear.  Aimed at people who aren't smart enough to know better.

NY Post is the print version of Fox News.  "Spin" is one thing, fabricating is another.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My age is not the topic of discussion, nor is this California.

Well, you implied it was not being investigated nor being dealt with in the past, and I responded that it was being investigated and delt with when I was  kid in California, so I assumed you were much older than I.

 

The topic is about schools in the United States, and the California I was talking about is one of the United States. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nonsense, it’s one group of kids repeatedly harassing and bullying another group of kids.

Well that’s a claim for which you’ll struggle to find empirical data to back it up with.

[EVENKEEL]

Referring to someone as "he or she" is now offensive to the alphabet society. I find it hard to believe folks who believe in this can ever be a productive member of mainstream society. 

 

 

[LarrySR]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Referring to someone as "he or she" is now offensive to the alphabet society. I find it hard to believe folks who believe in this can ever be a productive member of mainstream society. 

 

But sadly the only argument is Fox news is fake news. Good one.

 

People that are dumb enough to watch Fox really shouldn’t be allowed to vote. 
Would you want the morons that work in your factory to choose the CEO?

 

[EVENKEEL]

14 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

People that are dumb enough to watch Fox really shouldn’t be allowed to vote. 
Would you want the morons that work in your factory to choose the CEO?

 

That's all you have. You beat the same drum to death, while not addressing the topic.

 

Morons who raise kids so screwed up they demand to be addressed by specific pronouns are the problem.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

That's all you have. You beat the same drum to death, while not addressing the topic.

 

Morons who raise kids so screwed up they demand to be addressed by specific pronouns are the problem.

It is even worse than that, these kids will then raised their children much the same way and as you can see even that has worked out very well in Thailand.......

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Well that’s a claim for which you’ll struggle to find empirical data to back it up with.

Apart from that being the basis of the investigation.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

That's all you have. You beat the same drum to death, while not addressing the topic.

 

Morons who raise kids so screwed up they demand to be addressed by specific pronouns are the problem.

‘Screwed up’?

 

Or is it parents who raise their kids to abuse others on the basis of their gender?

 

 

[onthedarkside]

Multiple off-topic and trolling posts and comments have been removed.