Confirmation of Swiss Life Certificate from Immigration (or else)

[moogradod]

I receive a Swiss State Pension and they have sent me a form on which an official organisation should confirm that I am still living. They ask the same for my wife (Thai) and Stepdaughter (Thai). We all live in Chonburi but my wife and Stepdaughter are registered (Tabien Baan) in another Province. They also want to confirm my living adress.

 

These are extremely easy questions and can be answered with the information the Immigration has about me in seconds. There are boxes that can be ticked in a jiffy. Even for my wife / Stepdaughter an ID-Card with its picture and the personal appearance before the one who will confirm the Life Status would take seconds. There are 4-5 ticks in boxes to be made, signature of the authority and officical stamp. And that's it. All in all a 2 minute exercise I assume. At least should be. My neighbor could do it on the spot if he were only recognized as acceptable authority.

 

Now I have heard that Immigration may somehow be reluctant to perform this service. But does anybody still use them for that purpose ? And if not them then who ? Nobody of us is registered in the City Hall. If extra charges are necessary because it seems not to be a regular service anymore so be it. Maybe a case for a so called agent who could help, facilitate things and convince them to make an exeption ? And if yes, who exactly could be the best in this regard ? I do not have any experience in that area and it is as well the first time I need to sent said document to Switzerland.

 

Thank you for any help.

[OJAS]

Can the Swiss Embassy not assist you in this matter?

 

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/thailand/en/home/representations/embassy-bangkok.html

 

[ubonjoe]

I am confident immigration will not do it for you.

It does appear that the Swiss embassy or one of the consulates will do it for you.

A look at this webpage in English seems to mention it.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/thailand/en/home/services/attestations-certificates/lebensbescheinigung.html

[Aforek]

OP, it's a " life certificate " to send to your Swiss state  pension

I am not Swiss, but it's not the immigration job to do it

normally ( in other countries, it's like this ), your pension office sends you a form, you go to your embassy and they certify that you are still alive: what surprises me is that they want the same paper for your wife and stepdaughter, unless they serve also a pension for your wife and stepdaughter 

 

maybe there are some details that we don't know , or else Switzerland acts very differently from  other countries 

 

[Mavideol]

usually tourism police and/or the local police will do it..... I paid 200 baht for 2 signatures & stamp, I heard some countries accept it from the local village Poo Yai Baan

[Aforek]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

usually tourism police and/or the local police will do it..... I paid 200 baht for 2 signatures & stamp, I heard some countries accept it from the local village Poo Yai Baan

Alas, not here : police, amphoe don't accept,  neither poo yai baan, I have to go to my embassy in Bangkok

[Liverpool Lou]

Any lawyer (notary) will do it for a small fee. 

 

My last life cert was signed by the condo office staff with the Juristic Person stamp.

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Any lawyer (notary) will do it for a small fee. 

My last life cert was signed by the condo office staff with the Juristic Person stamp.

I am not sure that will work for a proof of life and etc for Switzerland.

It is not the same as the UK.

[billd766]

If you and your family are registered at your local hospital, go to see the doctor and explain the problem and they will sign and stamp it for a small fee.

 

After all, who is better at knowing if you are alive, than a doctor?

[moogradod]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am confident immigration will not do it for you.

It does appear that the Swiss embassy or one of the consulates will do it for you.

A look at this webpage in English seems to mention it.

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/thailand/en/home/services/attestations-certificates/lebensbescheinigung.html

I have heard rumours that they used to do it in the past (they are predestined to do it actually for they have all the data - finally an application for a TM30 with your adress on it) but no longer want to (maybe until they get specially motivated).

 

The link that you embedded says explicitely that "Immigration Police" and "Licensed Lawyers" may certifiy it (Updated info on 03.02.2022):

 

Here is the excerpt:

 

 

On the phone they denied as well that my "Licensed Lawyer" may do it although this would the most sensible way to do. My Stepdaughter is Thai and for an embassy this might be difficult to process, although it is logically possible

 

But thanks for the link anyway. I see some entertaining discussion with Geneva coming and I can surely use this info.

 

[moogradod]

7 hours ago, Mavideol said:

usually tourism police and/or the local police will do it..... I paid 200 baht for 2 signatures & stamp, I heard some countries accept it from the local village Poo Yai Baan

Was this for Switzerland (AHV) ? Actually nearly everybody could do it - Me, my wife and my stepdaughter are definitely identifiable as living persons. I do not know about my living adress - the police might not know it and neither the Poo Yai Baan. Important is here if the Swiss authorities accept the certifier. To prove my adress I have many TM30, my driving license and my rental contract - all with the adress.

 

Swiss are known to be accurate. Although I do not know how they process the thousands of certificates anyway they might have a close look at every form returned.

Edited May 21, 2022 by moogradod

[moogradod]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am not sure that will work for a proof of life and etc for Switzerland.

It is not the same as the UK.

I am not sure, either, although the link you posted some posts above does confirm it should be possible. Would be by far the best solution. I sent them an email and if they say again no we will have some phone calls. But I see myself already certifying 2 different versions - one for my wife and myself (drive to Bangkok eventually) and some 800km in addition to Si Khio only to get the certification for my stepdaughter (maybe together with my wife) since they are both registered there.

 

The district office there even issued a Kor Ror 2 16 years ago (handwritten) - but they would not certify me as living at a certain adress based on TM30, Driving License or Rental Contract, although I showed up in person with all supporting documents you can imagine together with my wife and stepdaughter who had all their IDs with them of course. I even suspect a little discrimination for when you thin it through it is obviously clear that they could certify me as well.

[Pmbkk]

I recently sold a Swiss AXA insurance policy which was linked to my Swiss pension compulsory contributions( I worked in Zurich for many years ).  I had to get a notary in London(I'm from the UK)  to sign and stamp a copy of my passport,proof of address and completed form stating it was me  and my wife. I wasn't even married when in Zurich.

 

I believe if you get that stamp you should be fine - all accepted.

If any doubts contact them and confirm a notary stamp is acceptable.

 

Note: I just saw UJ's reply. I'd send them an email and confirm whether or not the notary signature/stamp is acceptable or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Pmbkk

[moogradod]

7 hours ago, Aforek said:

OP, it's a " life certificate " to send to your Swiss state  pension

I am not Swiss, but it's not the immigration job to do it

normally ( in other countries, it's like this ), your pension office sends you a form, you go to your embassy and they certify that you are still alive: what surprises me is that they want the same paper for your wife and stepdaughter, unless they serve also a pension for your wife and stepdaughter 

 

maybe there are some details that we don't know , or else Switzerland acts very differently from  other countries 

 

They want it one the same paper as far as I understood it ! Stepdaughter and Wife are as well involved in the process but please let me refrain to entertain you with everything. (Only short: Wife probably because she would have the right to obtain a reduced pension when I am dead).

 

There are more details you do not know: I have a German passport but good hope that the Swiss embassy will help me nevertheless if needed. I leave out all the details, but I thank eveybody here for their contribution and good ideas.

Edited May 21, 2022 by moogradod

[moogradod]

8 hours ago, OJAS said:

Can the Swiss Embassy not assist you in this matter?

 

https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/thailand/en/home/representations/embassy-bangkok.html

 

Yes maybe they will but it is easier to have a short drive in Pattaya to see my lawyer and let him do it within 3 minutes. Please consider as well that my stepdaughter is still going to school. To drive to BKK and maybe back the next day means one day off. They start classes this coming Monday again. If I would need to drive up to Si Khio it would be 3 days off.

[OJAS]

14 hours ago, moogradod said:

Yes maybe they will but it is easier to have a short drive in Pattaya to see my lawyer and let him do it within 3 minutes. Please consider as well that my stepdaughter is still going to school. To drive to BKK and maybe back the next day means one day off. They start classes this coming Monday again. If I would need to drive up to Si Khio it would be 3 days off.

Fair enough. It's reassuring to hear (although of little comfort to you personally, of course) that we Brits are not alone in being subject to bureaucratic nonsense of this sort by our "beloved" home country government. I have always been under the impression that the powers-that-be here in Thailand are supposed to notify our home country embassies when we pop our clogs - who would then, I had assumed, have informed all relevant official parties back in our home country, including pension  providers, as necessary. However, if such procedures do exist, they definitely don't seem to be working in practice, but, instead of expending effort on considering ways how such procedures could work effectively, the Swiss and British governments have, instead, opted for the easy way out as far as they are concerned by placing the onus squarely on the shoulders of their expat nationals here in Thailand to prove that they are still in the land of the living in an excessively cumbersome and bureaucratic manner as far as pension payments are concerned.  

 

14 hours ago, moogradod said:

Was this for Switzerland (AHV) ?

So does this mean that you are an AHV/IV pensioner as referred to on the Swiss Embassy website? If so, it might definitely be worth your while "registering with Swiss representation" so that you are not bombarded with future requests for life certificates. Alas a similar option is not available to us Brits. ☹️

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

19 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Any lawyer (notary) will do it for a small fee. 

My last life cert was signed by the condo office staff with the Juristic Person stamp.

I am not sure that will work for a proof of life and etc for Switzerland.

It is not the same as the UK.

What makes you think that the Swiss authorities would not accept a notarised confirmation from a lawyer?

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What makes you think that the Swiss authorities would not accept a notarised confirmation from a lawyer?

I did not state a lawyer would not be accepted.

The condo office is what I was referring to.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I did not state a lawyer would not be accepted.

The condo office is what I was referring to.

Your reply did suggest that was what you meant.

[moogradod]

57 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What makes you think that the Swiss authorities would not accept a notarised confirmation from a lawyer?

That is what they told me on the phone in person some time ago (actually more than a year ago). However there is a webpage, updated 03.02.2022 which explicitely states that they would accept a lawyer. If this can be trusted is another question since the certificate they sent me for certification looks quite different than the one the mentioned "current" website links to.

 

What I will do now is to let it be certified by a lawyer and sent it to them via DHL. I told them already by mail. If they dont like it they may complain but I have no grounds to insist on the info on the web. Just like it is sometimes in Thailand. Not so much different, right ? And this is Switzerland - the epitome of correctness and transparence. Maybe not.

Edited May 22, 2022 by moogradod

[moogradod]

If you want to enjoy bureaucratic matters, nonsense, misuderstandings fully then marry in the Philippines. I did in my very early premature times and was punished accordingly. One example: A document had to be "legalized". I asked for how long it took. They said maybe up to 3 years on official channels (no joke).

 

If I did it myself possibly in 14 days. I opted for the 14 days ping-pong-ing between different offices. Once I freaked out and did what is usually not recommended in Asia: I raised my voice substantionally in the midst of the administration hall. I was then invited to see the boss. A little bit of small talk about German cars with him (he liked Porsche) gave me then the stamp I needed. Even no money required.

 

I lost as well my passport once in the Philippines and got a new one within 5 days. The downside was any future border crossing from this time on with my Phips made document where my picture faded very quickly away ("Sir, can you please get out of the car.....")

 

I am an AHV pensioneer, but I have a German passport. I am gifted with unusual situations. Nothing straightforward. But somehow I always get it. So as well this time - the difference is that some use their condo admin and I need a bus fully loaded with lawyers and diplomats.

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, moogradod said:

And this is Switzerland - the epitome of correctness and transparence. Maybe not.

But at least the Swiss government appears to be able to exempt you and your fellow compatriots here in LOS from cumbersome life certificate procedures through registering with its embassy in Bangkok - which its British counterpart is clearly unwillling or unable to replicate for some ridiculous reason.

 

 

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

But at least the Swiss government appears to be able to exempt you and your fellow compatriots here in LOS from cumbersome life certificate procedures through registering with its embassy in Bangkok - which its British counterpart is clearly unwillling or unable to replicate for some ridiculous reason.

Indeed, almost everybody from all kinds of Swiss administrations I have ever come in contact with was really friendly and helpful. Including the Swiss Embassy personnel in BKK. It was a bit complicated to get my wife to be visit me for the first time to let her have a look where she would marry to and a lot of administration for the marriage was indeed necessary. With a lot of translations and smiles - hard work for me but now we are married happily since 16 years.

 

My wife got her permanent residence after 5 years. Sort of automatic procedure. This took some minutes, paper work was near to nothing. All data in the computer. Some minor questions and none of the investigative suspicious kind. CHF 80.-- to be paid if I remember correctly et voilà she had nearly all the rights any original Swiss have exept voting. Free choice of work was anyway allowed from the beginning she set a foot on Swiss soil. But she did only work as a house-wife anyway. I had a reasonably good job.

 

No idea how the Britains manage this kind of thing, and the Australians and the Americans. I have heard it must be a bit more complicated. But lets stop here - its a thread about the certification of a life certificate for a Swiss pension by a German guy with Thai wife and daughter.