Biden says U.S. sending medium-range rocket systems to Ukraine

[CharlieH]

Reported post and responses quoting it removed.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, Smoothsailing1 said:

 

Sovereign nations have every right to form an alliance with any other country they feel like. NATO's mission is to defend against Russia, not attack it and It has never done so.

 

Suggesting that Russia is justified in committing massive and horrific war crimes because Ukraine proposed joining NATO is just propaganda of the worst kind. In any case NATO has never shown any inclination to allow Ukraine to join.

 

https://theconversation.com/whats-nato-and-why-does-ukraine-want-to-join-175821

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Putin has no intention of taking over Europe though , its actually NATO/E.U. that wants to expand their influence into the Eastern Block by aligning themselves with Ukraine , at the expense of Russia 

 

Maybe you missed this one out of Russia lately:

 

Russian TV Says Poland Next Target for Invasion

NATO member Poland could be the next target of a Russian invasion as the war in Ukraine drags on, according to pro-Kremlin Russian TV channel Russia-1.

 

Presenter Olga Skabeeva, host of the "60 Minutes" talk show and one of Russia's most prominent state propagandists, was quoted by Daily Beast journalist Julia Davis as saying that Russia should smash Western countries after Ukraine, starting with its neighbor Poland.

...

"Perhaps it's time to acknowledge that maybe Russia's special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: World War III. We're forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-tv-says-poland-next-target-invasion-1711967

 

[Jingthing]

 It's Russia that has the nukes. Of course Ukraine 30 years ago made a big mistake giving up their nukes. That was going to guarantee not being invaded by Russia (then USSR). DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA! Also to note, Putin is probably on his way out, he's very ill, but his replacement could easily be even worse.

 

Why Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons and what that means in a Russian invasion : NPR

 

Quote

 

Why Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons — and what that means in an invasion by Russia

 

Three decades ago, the newly independent country of Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world.

 

 

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Maybe you missed this one out of Russia lately:

 

Russian TV Says Poland Next Target for Invasion

NATO member Poland could be the next target of a Russian invasion as the war in Ukraine drags on, according to pro-Kremlin Russian TV channel Russia-1.

 

Presenter Olga Skabeeva, host of the "60 Minutes" talk show and one of Russia's most prominent state propagandists, was quoted by Daily Beast journalist Julia Davis as saying that Russia should smash Western countries after Ukraine, starting with its neighbor Poland.

...

"Perhaps it's time to acknowledge that maybe Russia's special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: World War III. We're forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-tv-says-poland-next-target-invasion-1711967

 

Says the host of a Russian talk show , that's hardly an indication of Putins intentions .

   A talk show host said it, Putin didnt say it 

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, Smoothsailing1 said:

 

The NATO excuse is a total crock. It's Putin himself who is promoting NATO. Putin didn't invade Ukraine because of NATO. Putin is on record for being GENOCIDAL towards Ukrainians specifically. He can't imagine his perverted vision of a renewed Russian empire without Ukraine being completely cancelled as a nation. That is his agenda. Is he invading Finland and Sweden? Of course not. You bought the NATO fake excuse. It is not true.

[ozimoron]

51 minutes ago, Smoothsailing1 said:

 

NATO was not creeping up on Russia. Nations which felt they had reason to fear Russia sought to join NATO. Poland is the latest example of a nation directly threatened by Russia despite having never attacked that country.

 

This propaganda talking point that somehow NATO provoked Russia and justified Russia's invasion and subsequent war crimes is equivalent to justifying the holocaust.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Says the host of a Russian talk show , that's hardly an indication of Putins intentions .

   A talk show host said it, Putin didnt say it 

Russian talk show hosts  read strictly from the Kremlin script.

[Smoothsailing1]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The NATO excuse is a total crock. It's Putin himself who is promoting NATO. Putin didn't invade Ukraine because of NATO. Putin is on record for being GENOCIDAL towards Ukrainians specifically. He can't imagine his perverted vision of a renewed Russian empire without Ukraine being completely cancelled as a nation. That is his agenda. Is he invading Finland and Sweden? Of course not. You bought the NATO fake excuse. It is not true.

 

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

NATO was not creeping up on Russia. Nations which felt they had reason to fear Russia sought to join NATO. Poland is the latest example of a nation directly threatened by Russia despite having never attacked that country.

 

This propaganda talking point that somehow NATO provoked Russia and justified Russia's invasion and subsequent war crimes is equivalent to justifying the holocaust.

 

Putin asked about Russia joining NATO and they just laughed at him. They aren't laughing now.

 

When you look at the situation on the ground today, it is obvious that there should have been diplomacy with Russia, not conflict.

 

They should start talking now, so that we can avoid getting into a nuclear war.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Russian talk show hosts  read strictly from the Kremlin script.

Really .

What is that based on ?

Do you have any evidence that the Kremlin wrote that or is it something you made up ?

[Jingthing]

45 minutes ago, Smoothsailing1 said:

Putin asked about Russia joining NATO and they just laughed at him. They aren't laughing now.

 

When you look at the situation on the ground today, it is obvious that there should have been diplomacy with Russia, not conflict.

 

They should start talking now, so that we can avoid getting into a nuclear war.

It is not the time to talk. Putin isn't interested in talking. It's delusional to think that. It is the time to make military gains against Putin so when the time comes to talk Ukraine can be in the driver's seat. All Putin would accept now is total surrender. I'm sure the Putin shills would love that.

[Jingthing]

43 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

what about the promise not to invade Ukraine. Worthless. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Really .

What is that based on ?

Do you have any evidence that the Kremlin wrote that or is it something you made up ?

There are more hawkish factions in the Kremlin than Putin but I would assume at this point any noise on Russian propaganda tv about invading Poland is just noise. So is the empty outrage that the U.S. is helping Ukraine with weapons. Putin's game is to try to scare the world with all kinds of threats. He hopes that will make the west back down. Some weak voices in the west are falling for that. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

46 minutes ago, Smoothsailing1 said:

Putin asked about Russia joining NATO and they just laughed at him. They aren't laughing now.

 

When you look at the situation on the ground today, it is obvious that there should have been diplomacy with Russia, not conflict.

 

They should start talking now, so that we can avoid getting into a nuclear war.

They tried diplomacy. It didn't work. If memory serves, both Macron and Scholz went to Moscow to read the riot act to Putin before he invaded. Furthermore, Putin undercut the diplomacy attempts by denying that he was planning to attack Ukraine.

 

Up until the Chechen War, Russia could have applied to join NATO but never did as its expansionist plans would have been curtailed by membership.

 

 

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/russia-could-have-joined-nato-but-why-didn-t-they-do-it-55561

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Really .

What is that based on ?

Do you have any evidence that the Kremlin wrote that or is it something you made up ?

You're kidding, right? What happens to Russian media organisations and journalists which fail to toe the party line?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You're kidding, right? What happens to Russian media organisations and journalists which fail to toe the party line?

Yeah but they talk a lot of garbage threats to try to make the bear look stronger than the bear really is. At the end of the day, Russia is a big gas station that has nukes. They use the nukes they commit suicide. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Says the host of a Russian talk show , that's hardly an indication of Putins intentions .

   A talk show host said it, Putin didnt say it 

Try again:

 

"Presenter Olga Skabeeva, host of the "60 Minutes" talk show and one of Russia's most prominent state propagandists..."

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You're kidding, right? What happens to Russian media organisations and journalists which fail to toe the party line?

Journalists  may have trouble if they start to criticise Putin and Russia , but they wouldn't get in any trouble if they implied that Russia is a World power and can do whatever it wants to do (like invading Poland), BUT , that doesn't mean what journalists say is official Russian policy

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Try again:

 

"Presenter Olga Skabeeva, host of the "60 Minutes" talk show and one of Russia's most prominent state propagandists..."

 

Yes, a "propergandists"

 

Propergandist..................................which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.

'

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Journalists  may have trouble if they start to criticise Putin and Russia , but they wouldn't get in any trouble if they implied that Russia is a World power and can do whatever it wants to do (like invading Poland), BUT , that doesn't mean what journalists say is official Russian policy

A rare case where I agree with you. This is part of their propaganda policy. Keep making big threats. Create divisions in the west with growing factions becoming more afraid of Russia so that they pressure Ukraine to surrender. They're so obvious. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There are more hawkish factions in the Kremlin than Putin but I would assume at this point any noise on Russian propaganda tv about invading Poland is just noise. So is the empty outrage that the U.S. is helping Ukraine with weapons. Putin's game is to try to scare the world with all kinds of threats. He hopes that will make the west back down. Some weak voices in the west are falling for that. 

And if Russia were to invade Poland , that would mean all 30 NATO Countries defending Poland and declaring war on Russia , which is something Russia isnt going to want to happen 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

And if Russia were to invade Poland , that would mean all 30 NATO Countries defending Poland and declaring war on Russia , which is something Russia isnt going to want to happen 

Does a dying despot who wants his own mausoleum and place in history as a Russian patriot care about that?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Does a dying despot who wants his own mausoleum and place in history as a Russian patriot care about that?

He is struggling to meet his war goals in Ukraine and Ukraine is what Putin cares about the most. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Does a dying despot who wants his own mausoleum and place in history as a Russian patriot care about that?

You think that Putin may be a psychopath who has little time left in the World and he wants to start a World war before he dies ?

  OK, so if that were the case. he would have already invaded Poland m as he hasnt done that , your fears are without reason

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You think that Putin may be a psychopath who has little time left in the World and he wants to start a World war before he dies ?

Yes, but I never suggested he was a psychopath. Don't misquote me.

 

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

  OK, so if that were the case. he would have already invaded Poland m as he hasnt done that , your fears are without reason

He doesn't possess the military capacity to do so. He's barely making ground against a much smaller army in the east of Ukraine despite much larger ambitions.

Edited June 2, 2022 by ozimoron

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Yes, but I never suggested he was a psychopath. Don't misquote me.

 

 

Well , starting a World war just so he can get a mausoleum before he dies , plunging the world in to a war for his own benefit is quite descriptive of psychopathic  behavior .

   You didnt say he was a psychopath , but you are expecting him to behave like a psychopath , so you do think that hes a psychopath, even if you didnt out righty say it 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well , starting a World war just so he can get a mausoleum before he dies , plunging the world in to a war for his own benefit is quite descriptive of psychopathic  behavior .

   You didnt say he was a psychopath , but you are expecting him to behave like a psychopath , so you do think that hes a psychopath, even if you didnt out righty say it 

Nope, you have a habit of putting words into other peoples mouths. Let me be quite clear, criminal behavior, no matter how egregious, is not necessarily an indication of mental illness. I rather think personality disorders are the main cause. That goes for mass shooters as well. Nutcases don't usually get to lead their country. Fascists are just evil people.

Edited June 2, 2022 by ozimoron

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Nope, you have a habit of putting words into other peoples mouths. Let me be quite clear, criminal behavior, no matter how egregious, is not necessarily and indication of mental illness. I rather think personality disorders are the main cause. That goes for mass shooters as well. Nutcases don't usually get to lead their country. They are just evil people, fascists, mostly.

If a person decides to start a World War where millions would die just for his own minimal benefit , I feel that the Doctors should make the decision  as to whether he's a psychopath or not 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

If a person decides to start a World War where millions would die just for his own minimal benefit , I feel that the Doctors should make the decision  as to whether he's a psychopath or not 

In the case of the US, apparently they can't make that call.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So, you are in favour of World War three and you think that the Biden and the USA should lead the Western World into a war with Russia and defeat Putin, like what happened in World War two ?

You don't understand the Chamberlain analogy very well, do you?