10 kw solar system with batteries for reserve power .

[itsari]

I wish to install a 10 kw solar system with batteries for reserve power  on a house in Chiang Mai .

Is there anybody that could recommend a contractor ?

[CharlieH]

Moved to Alternate Energy forum.

[Crossy]

Have a read of this thread https://aseannow.com/topic/1207148-my-issan-10kw-on-grid-solar-project-fully-installed-by-contractors-337500bht/

 

 

@Thaifishwas going to update to include batteries but I think has run into battery supply problems.

 

The contractor looks good but I would avoid the Huawei equipment as it requires special (expensive) high-voltage batteries. A more genereic 48V system should prove more economical.

 

Are you looking to go off-grid or merely use the batteries as a UPS for critical power?

How about selling excess to the PEA?

 

 

[BritManToo]

33 minutes ago, itsari said:

10 kw solar system with batteries for reserve power 

How much solar panels?

How much electrical supply?

How much battery storage?

 

I currently have 3kW of panels (9x 330W generating 9 units/day), a 5.5kW inverter and 8 units of battery storage (lasts 24hrs). That powers 80% of my 3 bed house (showers and air-con are still powered from grid).

Last months PEA bill 250bht for 57 units.

Edited June 2, 2022 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

We DIY'd a system with (now) 10.6kWP of panels, grid tie with 10kWh of batteries (going to expand "soon").

 

Thread here https://aseannow.com/topic/1120934-how-about-a-solar-car-port-on-a-budget/

 

 

[itsari]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Have a read of this thread https://aseannow.com/topic/1207148-my-issan-10kw-on-grid-solar-project-fully-installed-by-contractors-337500bht/

 

 

@Thaifishwas going to update to include batteries but I think has run into battery supply problems.

 

The contractor looks good but I would avoid the Huawei equipment as it requires special (expensive) high-voltage batteries. A more genereic 48V system should prove more economical.

 

Are you looking to go off-grid or merely use the batteries as a UPS for critical power?

How about selling excess to the PEA?

 

 

I would like to sell excess to PEA .

So i need on grid with as you call it UPS .

I have pumps in a basement that i need power for if the power should fail

[itsari]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

How much solar panels?

How much electrical supply?

How much battery storage?

 

I currently have 3kW of panels (9x 330W generating 9 units/day), a 5.5kW inverter and 8 units of battery storage (lasts 24hrs). That powers 80% of my 3 bed house (showers and air-con are still powered from grid).

Last months PEA bill 250bht for 57 units.

We use around 1000 kwh per month .

I need enough battery storage for running two pumps in the basement when the power supply is down 

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, itsari said:

We use around 1000 kwh per month .

I need enough battery storage for running two pumps in the basement when the power supply is down 

 

What's the power of your pumps?? How long do you need to run for??

 

You may need to consider a genset as backup for the backup.

[itsari]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

What's the power of your pumps?? How long do you need to run for??

 

You may need to consider a genset as backup for the backup.

I am presently using 2 one horse power submersible pumps . 

The power supply is not often failing and is only off for a few hours or less.

I have considered  a  generator as a second standby .

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, itsari said:

I would like to sell excess to PEA .

Add 100,000bht to your install bill for the extra paperwork, approved installer and approved equipment.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Add 100,000bht to your install bill for the extra paperwork, approved installer and approved equipment.

Asked my installer about inverter (Deye) not being on PEA list, and he simply says, 'I'll tell them what they want to hear, they don't care' ... assuming that means listing an approved inverter on any paperwork.

 

If it turns into an issue, I'll simply add another ESS, and be 'off' grid.   If my calculations are correct, I won't need PEA anyway, except on that week of solid rain.

 

I see the worse days on graphs shown here, 15-20kWh being generated, so that's more than enough for us.  If it's that overcast & rainy, I won't need the ACs.  1 fan & 2 frigs are the only mandatory appliances we need to run.

 

May add another 10kWh ESS anyway, just in case I want to top up the car, for late decision of an early morning out & about.

 

[Thaifish]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:17 AM, itsari said:

I would like to sell excess to PEA .

I'm still waiting for my PEA smart meter 15 months later?? to sell back excess KW. I paid 2500Bht??... and also Huawei Batteries..... 15Kwh storage...  In Ozz at the moment with medical stuff happening so my feet not on the ground.. I don't think Issan PEA can handle the Smart Meter technology and buying excess KW back into the grid.

[Boomer6969]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:34 AM, Crossy said:

You may need to consider a genset as backup for the backup.

Anything to recommend for a 12 kw diesel backup. How much and where? I stay in Buriram

[itsari]

2 hours ago, Thaifish said:

I'm still waiting for my PEA smart meter 15 months later?? to sell back excess KW. I paid 2500Bht??... and also Huawei Batteries..... 15Kwh storage...  In Ozz at the moment with medical stuff happening so my feet not on the ground.. I don't think Issan PEA can handle the Smart Meter technology and buying excess KW back into the grid.

The batteries I think is the answer for my situation . Reason being is I rent out 4 apartments on the same property. A large storage capacity enables me to charge 5 baht per kwh made from the solar power generated . PEA only wants to pay 2 baht I understand.

Hoping all goes well with your medical treatment in Australia .

 

[bluejets]

10 hours ago, Thaifish said:

I don't think Issan PEA can handle the Smart Meter technology and buying excess KW back into the grid.

Not to mention the expected life span of a "smart meter" installed on a pole outside exposed to the weather.

The old Warburton Frankie style inductive disc mechanical meters have stood up remarkably well but don't think anywhere near the same for smart meters jammed pack full of micro electronics.

 

Not all solar inverter systems will support "grid down" operation however there are add ons that will, all-be-it at an added cost.

When it all boils down, one must consider the dust to dust component as ones "cheaper energy" may end up costing you an arm and a leg extra just for the novelty or "yeah I have a whatsit system" factor.

 

Just as an example, here in Aus with the government subsidies on installation ( more than 50% overall) my system (5kw) has paid for itself (my outlay) in 4 years. That plus I used hot water storage system as an energy tank which works well, rather than expensive batteries.

Edited June 4, 2022 by bluejets

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, bluejets said:

Not to mention the expected life span of a "smart meter" installed on a pole outside exposed to the weather.

The old Warburton Frankie style inductive disc mechanical meters have stood up remarkably well but don't think anywhere near the same for smart meters jammed pack full of micro electronics.

 

Even the old "weatherproof" meters do have limits

 

[Crossy]

@itsari Do you have a rough budget? As with all this kind of system the batteries will be the limiting factor budget wise even with generic 48V units.

 

A 10kW system will generate about 35-45 kWh per day during the solar active hours (2-3 hours either side of mid-day). We are getting just over 1,000kWh per month from our 10.6kWP system just north of BKK.

 

How much will you need to store?

 

Try reading your meter at say 4PM and again at 8AM next morning to get an idea just how much energy is being used during the non-solar period.

 

I'm thinking going grid-tie hybrid (see my pinned thread for the different system types) with the inverter "emergency power" (UPS) output feeding your essential services. Probably go 2 x 5kW inverters for your 10kW system.

 

[itsari]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

@itsari Do you have a rough budget? As with all this kind of system the batteries will be the limiting factor budget wise even with generic 48V units.

 

A 10kW system will generate about 35-45 kWh per day during the solar active hours (2-3 hours either side of mid-day), how much of that will you need to store?

 

Try reading your meter at say 4PM and again at 8AM next morning to get an idea just how much energy is being used during the non-solar period.

 

I'm thinking going grid-tie hybrid (see my pinned thread for the different system types) with the inverter "emergency power" (UPS) output feeding your essential services. Probably go 2 x 5kW inverters for your 10kW system.

 

 

I am budgeting on 4 to 5 hundred thousand baht 

I will check my meter reading as you suggested .

Yes, i see there are hybrid systems out there . Meaning you have storage and remain on the grid . 

I think 35 to 45 kwh per day would be a good start  . 

Thank you for your help 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, itsari said:

I am budgeting on 4 to 5 hundred thousand baht 

I will check my meter reading as you suggested .

Check your PEA bill for units / kW used, and down the bottom, it will have you past immediate history.   4 or 6 months out, which is good, as May, April, March are probably your hottest months, with AC use, so should show your highest usage.

 

We're pretty abusive with the AC, and the rental is poorly constructed, so we actually broke 700 units/kW & ฿3200 recently.   Usual average is ฿2300-2800, and we're in Prachuap Khiri Khan, so pretty hot year round.   When up in Udon Thani, had some ฿1200 months.

 

Was at the house build yesterday, after walking 3.5 kms to it, damn hot, and shirt soaking wet with sweat.   Stood in the entrance, doors open front and back, and cool breeze was quite refreshing with no AC on, since not installed.  Construction makes a huge difference.  Build feels a few degrees lower than ambient temps, where rental radiates higher than outside temp.

 

Walk out of the rental's AC'd bedroom and it's a heat wave.  Take the dog out at night, for pre-sleep wizz, and it's like walking into AC ... ????

[007 RED]

When I was initially considering a small scale DIY grid tied system a couple of years ago one of the first problems I encountered was establishing how many units we (my better half and I) had been using as this was an essential figure needed in order to size our potential system. 

 

We paid the monthly bill automatically from a specific bank account and never really took much notice of the bill which the meter reader pushed into our letter box.  The bills tended to be put in the WPB whenever we opened the box to retrieve letters.

 

So, in order to establish our electrical usage for the past 12 months, my wife and I popped into our local PEA office and asked them if they would be kind enough to provide us with details of our past 12 months usage.  At first we were met with blank looks, but after lots of nice smiles and pleas we were referred to a supervisor who asked lots of questions as to why we would want such information.  We told her a ‘little porky’ in so far that we thought that the bank may have been over charging us and we wanted the information to enable us to check.  She (fell for it) accepted our explanation and a few minutes later produced a nice printout itemising our monthly usage in terms of: - meter reading date and time; current & previous meter readings; number units used; cost.

 

The printout showed that during the previous 12 months we had been using an average of 275 Units per month.  As I said I was looking at a small scale system as our average monthly usage was relatively small.  This figure (275 Units per month) would form the basis for the sizing of my proposed solar panel project. 

 

FYI…. I was subsequently informed by a fellow forum members that I could have obtained the same information by entering a couple of basic details from your bill (CA/Ref. No.1  & PEA No.) into the PEA ‘s web page https://www.pea.co.th/en/e-Service/Meter-Reading-History    This will provide you with data of your monthly usage for the past 2 years ‘You live and learn’.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

21 hours ago, 007 RED said:

FYI…. I was subsequently informed by a fellow forum members that I could have obtained the same information by entering a couple of basic details from your bill (CA/Ref. No.1  & PEA No.) into the PEA ‘s web page https://www.pea.co.th/en/e-Service/Meter-Reading-History    This will provide you with data of your monthly usage for the past 2 years ‘You live and learn’.

Thanks for that link.

 

This link works but the resultant page is very hard to use.  The monthly usage is shown in a bar graph.  But, the graph is displayed in a scrolling field and it is not possible to see or print the whole chart.  I can see the usage at the top but cannot see the month at the same time because it is hidden at the bottom of the chart.  Or I can scroll down and see the months without the consumption which is now hidden at the top.

 

Does it work well for others?

 

UPDATE:  I am able to right click on the bar graph and copy the entire image and then view with image viewer (preview on a Mac).

Edited June 6, 2022 by gamb00ler

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Thanks for that link.

 

This link works but the resultant page is very hard to use.  The monthly usage is shown in a bar graph.  But, the graph is displayed in a scrolling field and it is not possible to see or print the whole chart.  I can see the usage at the top but cannot see the month at the same time because it is hidden at the bottom of the chart.  Or I can scroll down and see the months without the consumption which is now hidden at the top.

 

Does it work well for others?

 

UPDATE:  I am able to right click on the bar graph and copy the entire image and then view with image viewer (preview on a Mac).

Simply divide the total of your last bill by about 4.5, and that should give you a ballpark idea how many units / kW you are using monthly.  The more you use, the more expensive it is, on a sliding scale.

 

Our last bill was ฿3226.55 for 686 kW = 4.7034 per, and our most expensive bill in past 5 ish yrs.  Usually runs between ฿2300-2800.  The 506 kW month would be about ฿2300.

[Muhendis]

Don't forget the feminine factor.

As soon as your wife finds out how much you are saving she will release the budget brake and reduce the profit somewhat. 

You still need to put a few buckets full of money aside for repairs/upgrades/renewals of your installation.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

Don't forget the feminine factor.

As soon as your wife finds out how much you are saving she will release the budget brake and reduce the profit somewhat. 

You still need to put a few buckets full of money aside for repairs/upgrades/renewals of your installation.

 

Yeah, our baby "starter" system has ballooned from 4 panels to 32!

 

[sezze]

20 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, our baby "starter" system has ballooned from 4 panels to 32!

 

Well , yes , off course , that is always something people need to consider . Getting free consumption always means , more consumption . So if you are using now 10kW per day , better start calculating at 15kW per day .

For myself , i am still on my way heading there , since i need(ed) to fix some other stuff 1st .I am getting there but i am also already preparing for electric car and motorbike and complete home airco since prob that will be there . Now my transport costs in Thailand are minimal so that's no issue , but preparing for the complete home airco , i certainly need a few kW more then i would need right now . But do not let it stop you , since the energy is free for many years to come . I mean , solar is there , and yes they need to be produced , but they keep working and are very reliable . Even 30-40y old panels still produce electricity . Batteries are a different thing , but if you put out 10-20% of the budget for electric a month aside for replacing them , then you can be sure that even complete failure can be replaced without issue.

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, sezze said:

Getting free consumption always means , more consumption

 

Oddly enough our actual overall energy consumption hasn't really changed (30-40kWh per day with a peak on the weekend when we have family over), we are just buying a lot less from PEA ???? 

[Will B Good]

Assuming there are plenty of experts on here could I be cheeky and ask a quick question?

 

Looking at building a knock down, but keeping it cheap and simple.

 

Would it be feasible to run a decent sized fan from a solar cell or even a small aircon unit, just for daytime use?

[Crossy]

21 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Assuming there are plenty of experts on here could I be cheeky and ask a quick question?

 

Looking at building a knock down, but keeping it cheap and simple.

 

Would it be feasible to run a decent sized fan from a solar cell or even a small aircon unit, just for daytime use?

 

A very "finger in the air" guesstimate:-

 

Assuming off-grid (no mains power) you would need batteries to even out the solar energy.

If you say a fan of 120W or so then you should be able to run that all day from one 330W panel with around 500Wh of battery to handle the peaks and troughs in the solar.

 

So something like:-

• 330W poly panel.
• 50A MPPT solar charge controller.
• 300W inverter (or a 12V fan).
• 12V 100Ah deep-cycle lead acid or 12V 60Ah LiFePO4 battery pack.

Of course if you are going to want your PC, phone charger, power tools etc. etc. then that's more panels and more batteries.

 

If you want A/C, say a minimal 9,000 BTU (in a small room of course), that's going to use about 0.3kWh per hour of use, about 3-4 times what the fan would. So multiply the above by 3-4 ???? BUT you would want an inverter type A/C due to regular A/C units having a large start-up surge which would need an over-sized inverter.

 

To do it properly you need to do an energy budget calculation taking into account everything you want to run and how long without sun you want to run for.

[BritManToo]

44 minutes ago, sezze said:

Getting free consumption always means , more consumption . So if you are using now 10kW per day , better start calculating at 15kW per day .

Solar has reduced my total consumption, as I follow the woman and kids around turning off stuff.

Then I tell them not to watch TV as we don't have enough battery left.

Reduction around 20% because of this.

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Solar has reduced my total consumption, as I follow the woman and kids around turning off stuff.

Then I tell them not to watch TV as we don't have enough battery left.

Reduction around 20% because of this.

I agree with that entirely. When you are making your own power you are always far more conscious of the supply limitations and therefore inclined to think on the frugal side. Mind you, that's not a bad thing anyway if you are at all sympathetic towards climate change.