Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election

[ozimoron]

About half say Trump should be charged for 1/6: AP-NORC poll

 

The survey from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds that 48% of U.S. adults say the former president should be charged with a crime for his role, while 31% say he should not be charged. An additional 20% say they don’t know enough to have an opinion.

 

Fifty-eight percent say Trump bears a great deal or quite a bit of responsibility for what happened that day.

 

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-crime-donald-trump-congress-government-and-politics-bb9efcbca309c3acb66e9c6d8a13657d

 

 

[ozimoron]

Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone was officially subpoenaed on Wednesday by the House Select Committee Investigating the Jan. 6 Attack on the U.S. Capitol.

 

The subpoena compels Cipollone to testify on July 6.

 

Cipollone held the same position in the Trump administration on Jan. 6 that John Dean held in the Nixon administration during Watergate.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/pat-cipollone-jan-6-subpoena/?traffic_source=Connatix

 

 

The former president wrote, "Unselect Committee (sic) is asking to interview the former White House counsel for dirt, even though that would set a terrible precedent for future Presidents. NO!"

Trump also denied he "tried to commandeer control of a moving White House Limo."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-jan-6-select-committee-2657587191/

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, candide said:

You are right that the ,"cowering" Republicans have much to lose.  However, you have no evidence that she will be offered several high paying jobs..

 

It's not without risk for her. She will likely be blacklisted by her usual employers (GOP politicians), may find it difficult to work in the private sector (it may not please Republican customers or stakeholders). On top of it, she gets insulted, gets threatened, may be assaulted by a right-wing nutter, would need a security escort for some time  etc... I guess she would prefer the normal life she had before

 

Why do you assume that she was motivated by doing a little math, and not simply by the will to do her citizen's duty?

 

Or should it be assumed that all Republicans are only motivated by greed?

 

 

I'm prognosticating based on seeing similar things happen again and again. Does that count as "evidence?" Nope. But its a pretty strong clue on which to build one's prognostication.

 

Meanwhile, after declaring "you have no evidence"........... you then proceed to do your own detailed  prognostication about her future, with no "evidence." ............. What you have are CLUES, clues based on what's happening NOW............. But you have no way of knowing whether those things will fade away quickly.............. or escalate mercilessly. All you can do is take those clues.......... combine them others you think are relevant........... and take your best stab at what those clues tell you/us about the future.

 

That's what you did.

That's what I did.

 

Because the one big flaw in demanding "evidence" for things that haven't happened yet.......... for predicted future events.......... is.......... well........ there isn't any! It hasn't happened yet! LOL

 

All we can do is wait and see. But.......... of course......... I believe MY ability to tell fortunes...........  is WAY better than YOURS!

 

But then, of course, you would have no way to know this about me, but for literally decades I have been predicting "The sun will come out tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, there'll be sun!" *

 

And, even without "evidence," I've been right every single day!

 

----------------

----------------

 

*  (Lyrics from the musical ANNIE, for anyone who is not familiar. Don't wanna get accused of play-churism! )

 

(And yes, I DO know how to spell the word correctly. C-O-R-R-E-C-T-L-Y-! So there!)

Edited June 30, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I'm prognosticating based on seeing similar things happen again and again. Does that count as "evidence?" Nope. But its a pretty strong clue on which to build one's prognostication.

 

Meanwhile, after declaring "you have no evidence"........... you then proceed to do your own detailed  prognostication about her future, with no "evidence." ............. What you have are CLUES, clues based on what's happening NOW............. But you have no way of knowing whether those things will fade away quickly.............. or escalate mercilessly. All you can do is take those clues.......... combine them others you think are relevant........... and take your best stab at what those clues tell you/us about the future.

 

That's what you did.

That's what I did.

 

Because the one big flaw in demanding "evidence" for things that haven't happened yet.......... for predicted future events.......... is.......... well........ there isn't any! It hasn't happened yet! LOL

 

All we can do is wait and see. But.......... of course......... I believe MY ability to tell fortunes...........  is WAY better than YOURS!

 

But then, of course, you would have no way to know this about me, but for literally decades I have been predicting "The sun will come out tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, there'll be sun!" *

 

And, even without "evidence," I've been right every single day!

 

----------------

----------------

 

*  (Lyrics from the musical ANNIE, for anyone who is not familiar. Don't wanna get accused of play-churism! )

 

(And yes, I DO know how to spell the word correctly. C-O-R-R-E-C-T-L-Y-! So there!)

The problem with your analogy about the sun coming up every day without evidence is that there is evidence, lots of it.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

42 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Neither side is going to employ her I think but that's the least of her worries. She's going to make a motza out of a book.

I was mostly guesssing one of a bunch of tv and cable media outlets........... But there are lots of other political and non-political places, too. 

 

I suspect there are LOTS of left-leaning companies and organizations who would offer her a position to "thank her" for "Stepping forward and showing the world what integrity looks like!" 

 

Time will tell.........!

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I was mostly guesssing one of a bunch of tv and cable media outlets........... But there are lots of other political and non-political places, too. 

 

I suspect there are LOTS of left-leaning companies and organizations who would offer her a position to "thank her" for "Stepping forward and showing the world what integrity looks like!" 

 

Time will tell.........!

Stick to her testimony given under oath.

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

Just now, ozimoron said:

The problem with your analogy about the sun coming up every day without evidence is that there is evidence, lots of it.

Well, if you're going to get pedantic about it, the sun NEVER "comes up!"

 

The earth rotates and creates that illusion!

 

Never in the history of the planet......... has there ever been a "sunrise" or a "sunset!"

 

Or..........

 

There may be no actual physical reality, at all! No sun, no earth, no rotation, no seeing these things interact.

 

Because everything we know about the "physical world".......... is a matter of perception!

 

We believe........... we believe in the physical world because we believe the physical world triggers our perceptions. But we also DREAM!

 

Dreams also give us a perception of something like a physical world........... but our "dream world" has exactly zero substance. It is nothing......... absolutely nothing. It is nothing more than a mental construct!

 

And frankly, there's nothing........ absolutely nothing........ that proves that everything else we perceive as "real"............ isn't just another construct of imagination; imagination that creates false perceptions of reality.

 

Thus............ the physical world may not exist AT ALL! It may all just be perceptions we have in our........... um....... Universal Mind-State!

 

See that?

 

When you start getting pedantic, it becomes a question of just how far down the rabbit-hole you want to go! Lol

 

Because if you're far enough down the rabbit-hole...........

 

You'll  realize that you didn't just read that........... and I didn't just write it!

 

None of it exists anyhere, except in your mind!!

 

No, wait! That's wrong! I'M perceiving this......... so its all happening in MY mind!

 

(But then............ how are YOU reading it?...........)

 

See?

 

And THAT'S what happens when you take the literal............ a little too literally!

 

Lol

[Phoenix Rising]

Right-Wing News Site Declares Trump 'Unfit To Be Anywhere Near Power Ever Again'

 

"New testimony from the most recent Jan. 6 committee hearing shows that former President Donald Trump is a “disgrace” who is “unfit to be anywhere near power ever again,” according to right-wing news website the Washington Examiner.
“Hutchinson’s testimony confirmed a damning portrayal of Trump as unstable, unmoored, and absolutely heedless of his sworn duty to effectuate a peaceful transition of presidential power,” the site concluded.

“Trump is a disgrace and the Republicans have far better options to lead the party in 2024.""

[KanchanaburiGuy]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Stick to her testimony given under oath.

 

Stick to controlling what YOU say, and not trying to control what others say. Fair enough?

[Phoenix Rising]

Stephen Colbert Spots One Of The Most Awkward Fox News Moments Yet

 

"Stephen Colbert said this week’s Jan. 6 committee testimony was so bad for former President Donald Trump that “even Fox News didn’t know how to spin it.”

Fox News anchor Bret Baier called it “really, really powerful,” which led to about five seconds of awkward silence as neither John Roberts nor Sandra Smith knew quite how to react.

“Sandra, are you still here?” Roberts finally asked."????

 

[Phoenix Rising]

Former White House chief of staff says Trump should be most worried about evidence the January 6 panel may have for obstruction of justice

 

"The former acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney wrote on Wednesday that in his view the real threat to former President Donald Trump was evidence that might lead to accusations of obstruction of justice.
Mulvaney wrote that he had previously defended the former president against claims that he did "anything illegal or criminal" in relation to the Capitol riot. He said he was having difficulty maintaining that position, however, particularly after Hutchinson's testimony, which he said he found "eminently credible.""

[candide]

2 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I'm prognosticating based on seeing similar things happen again and again

Which ones?

[Phoenix Rising]

16 minutes ago, candide said:

Which ones?

Getting owned.

[Phoenix Rising]

Right-Wing Lawmaker's 'BEST' Trump Question Backfires Spectacularly On Twitter

 

LOL, have a look!

[candide]

21 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Right-Wing Lawmaker's 'BEST' Trump Question Backfires Spectacularly On Twitter

 

LOL, have a look!

I like the choice of picture! ????

[pomchop]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:30 AM, g man said:

I have strong hunch that this women is in legal jeopardy now, in way over her head and very soon she will be outed and find herself under felony indictment and trying to post bond. She's lying, obviously.

 

Trump White House attorney disputes Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony about handwritten note

"The handwritten note that Cassidy Hutchinson testified was written by her was in fact written by Eric Herschmann on January 6, 2021," a spokesperson for Herschmann told ABC News Tuesday evening.
"All sources with direct knowledge and law enforcement have and will confirm that it was written by Mr. Herschmann," the spokesperson said”.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-white-house-attorney-disputes-cassidy-hutchinsons-testimony/story?id=85898838

https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/06/trump-wh-attorney-shoots-down-hutchinsons-testimony-over-handwritten-note/

 

Hear no evil see no evil ...typical trumper response....attack the 25 y.o gal for lying ....she did not say she was in the car when trump lunged...she said she was told this by a guy who was in the car....maybe HE was lying?  Did she write the note?  Hand writing experts can answer that in about 2 minutes....meanwhile i don't see anyone attacking the vast majority of her testimony for much more important revelations because they know damn well it was true.

 

She was a very credible witness who gave detail after detail....of FIRST hand conversations.  She certainly is no dummy.  If meadows or others want to deny what she said then let them testify UNDER oath rather than hiding under their desks.

[ozimoron]

'He's a Trump acolyte': Reporter shreds Secret Service agent's credibility in face of denials about SUV incident

 

https://www.rawstory.com/tony-ornato/

 

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

'He's a Trump acolyte': Reporter shreds Secret Service agent's credibility in face of denials about SUV incident

https://www.rawstory.com/tony-ornato/

 

The DT faithful are going to town on the on this steering wheel stuff as if it was the most important thing about her testimony.  Fox can't talk about it enough.  Yes, it was hearsay, she said so herself.  Two hours of in-person testimony in addition to the previously recorded stuff, but nothing in there to talk about but this. 

Yeah, the steering wheel and the near-fatal assault on Rudy "I thought I wuz gonna die!" Giuliani.  The blow was so intense it shook the earth and those around him felt it, but he doesn't mention how much he had to drink at the time.  Calling this bunch a clown car is denigrating to clowns.

 

A year from now will be the start of the presidential campaign.  Will this stuff have any impact?  DOJ?  Things take a looooooooong time to happen there as it stands, and I suspect there are enough pro-DT elements in there to ensure this is not settled by Election Day 2024.

 

IMO the best outcome is DT does a Thaksin and self-exiles to a friendly country like Russia or Hungary.  The sooner the  better.

 

 

[Berkshire]

15 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Right-Wing Lawmaker's 'BEST' Trump Question Backfires Spectacularly On Twitter

 

LOL, have a look!

I like these two visuals the best...

 

 

[xylophone]

22 hours ago, ozimoron said:

About half say Trump should be charged for 1/6: AP-NORC poll

 

The survey from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds that 48% of U.S. adults say the former president should be charged with a crime for his role, while 31% say he should not be charged. An additional 20% say they don’t know enough to have an opinion.

 

Fifty-eight percent say Trump bears a great deal or quite a bit of responsibility for what happened that day.

 

https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-crime-donald-trump-congress-government-and-politics-bb9efcbca309c3acb66e9c6d8a13657d

 

 

Watching these events unfold, and also seeing the posts here, I get a horrible feeling that trump might just get off of any serious charges with a slap or two on the wrist!

 

I loathe the orange man for his lies, corrupt practices, and general stupidity/dumbness, however these are not enough to be able to put the man away, and from what I can see there is no real clear cut and overwhelming case to do so, unless something else is proven.

 

In addition, he has a lot of powerful friends who would happily lie on his behalf, having drunk the Kool-Aid and therefore being unable to see what he really is.

 

There is one further thing which I consider could be telling, from an overarching standpoint, and that is should he be found guilty of some serious misdemeanour and jailed (hopefully) it will reflect badly upon the USA as a whole, not only as a country in which a corrupt and dumb person can rise up through the ranks to become president, but that just about half the population condone/support it, when these sort of events only happen in other countries which are supposedly nowhere near as advanced (I'll leave it at that).

 

In summary, what sort of country has the US become whereupon this can happen, and it was only a short while ago when this dumb ex-president was berating NATO and wanting to pull out of it, when it has now been seen that it is very necessary to be able to bring some stability to Europe.

 

Irrespective of all of the above, it may well be that should he be cleared of most things, he won't be around to run for president again, because a fat lump of lard, with poor dietary habits and what looks to be high blood pressure could well be stoking fires down below.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Watching these events unfold, and also seeing the posts here, I get a horrible feeling that trump might just get off of any serious charges with a slap or two on the wrist!

 

I loathe the orange man for his lies, corrupt practices, and general stupidity/dumbness, however these are not enough to be able to put the man away, and from what I can see there is no real clear cut and overwhelming case to do so, unless something else is proven.

 

In addition, he has a lot of powerful friends who would happily lie on his behalf, having drunk the Kool-Aid and therefore being unable to see what he really is.

 

There is one further thing which I consider could be telling, from an overarching standpoint, and that is should he be found guilty of some serious misdemeanour and jailed (hopefully) it will reflect badly upon the USA as a whole, not only as a country in which a corrupt and dumb person can rise up through the ranks to become president, but that just about half the population condone/support it, when these sort of events only happen in other countries which are supposedly nowhere near as advanced (I'll leave it at that).

 

In summary, what sort of country has the US become whereupon this can happen, and it was only a short while ago when this dumb ex-president was berating NATO and wanting to pull out of it, when it has now been seen that it is very necessary to be able to bring some stability to Europe.

 

Irrespective of all of the above, it may well be that should he be cleared of most things, he won't be around to run for president again, because a fat lump of lard, with poor dietary habits and what looks to be high blood pressure could well be stoking fires down below.

As your summary seems to mainly pertain to Trump berating NATO (actually some individual members), these members, particularly Germany, were indeed guilty of long-term under contribution relative to their GDP's and far less than their pledged commitments, which put even more burden on the USA. Trump reminded them of this but I don't think he really wanted the USA to quit NATO. Look what's happening now that Putin has attacked Ukraine - those that have not done so already, are increasing their military spending.

 

NATO would have been far more capable already if all members had kept to the deal over time. Germany, by far the largest economy in Europe, will take years to be at the NATO member strength that it should be at today.  

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

As your summary seems to mainly pertain to Trump berating NATO.......

Through the eyes of a trumpist, of course two lines mentioning NATO out of 19 lines would equate to "mainly pertain" in your language, but it wasn't the main point of my post, but you chose to focus on it........can't get out of the trump mindset I suppose.

 

And the likelihood of trump negotiating anything successfully would be fairly remote given his IQ level, business failures and utter dumbness.

 

I will agree though that other nations were falling behind on their financial obligations towards NATO, and they needed to be brought into line with this, however last year, trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

 

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

 

So much for negotiating.

Edited July 1, 2022 by xylophone

[Berkshire]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

When someone says they're not "Trumpist," but then proceed to express Trumpist attitude and opinions, well....    I'm pretty certain every NATO member will say President Biden is better for NATO than Trump. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Scott

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

When someone says they're not "Trumpist," but then proceed to express Trumpist attitude and opinions, well....    I'm pretty certain every NATO member will say President Biden is better for NATO than Trump. 

Well I said you wouldn't believe me. But that's OK.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

As your summary seems to mainly pertain to Trump berating NATO (actually some individual members), these members, particularly Germany, were indeed guilty of long-term under contribution relative to their GDP's and far less than their pledged commitments, which put even more burden on the USA. Trump reminded them of this but I don't think he really wanted the USA to quit NATO. Look what's happening now that Putin has attacked Ukraine - those that have not done so already, are increasing their military spending.

 

NATO would have been far more capable already if all members had kept to the deal over time. Germany, by far the largest economy in Europe, will take years to be at the NATO member strength that it should be at today.  

You might want to contemplate the historical reasons why Germany has not militarized over say the past 70 years or so.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You might want to contemplate the historical reasons why Germany has not militarized over say the past 70 years or so.

I might but could you start another thread for that?

[Slip]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I might but could you start another thread for that?

You can contemplate without a new thread.  Think of it as educating yourself.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Slip said:

You can contemplate without a new thread.  Think of it as educating yourself.

I say, thanks!

[ozimoron]

Arizona Senate President Karen Fann and Mesa Republican Senator Kelly Townsend were subpoenaed by the FBI for an on-going investigation into President Donald Trump’s alleged pressure campaign on state officials to overturn the 2020 presidential election results.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/karen-fann-fbi-subpoena/?traffic_source=Connatix

[Chomper Higgot]

42 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I might but could you start another thread for that?

I think my comment goes very well with you apparent lack of understanding on the subject you yourself were discussing.