73 year-old American motorbike driver injured by hanging communication wires

[RobU]

There are a lot of 'victim shaming' posts on this topic

i.e. he deserved to be pulled off his motorbike by a dangerous hanging wire because

1. He is old (irrelevant)

2. He wasnt wearing a helmet (also Irrelevant)

I wish some people would grow up and stop trolling and actually discuss the topic rather than just finding unneccesary fault with the rider

The wire was a danger to the public and the people you should be shaming are the ones who left it like that

[EricTh]

14 hours ago, toho said:

Probably less than with a young guy with a lot less experience but lots of testosterone.

Why are you discriminating elderly? They cause less traffic problems than young persons.

And by the way: it was not him that caused the problem, but the wires. 

 

Totally agree. Remember it was a very young Thai guy riding on a fast motorbike which caused the death of a doctor while she was walking along the zebra crossing a while back.

 

There's nothing wrong with an elderly guy riding a bike if he drives slowly.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by EricTh

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Totally agree. Remember it was a very young Thai guy riding on a fast motorbike which caused the death of a doctor while she was walking along the zebra crossing a while back.

 

There's nothing wrong with an elderly guy riding a bike if he drives slowly.

 

 

Its a valid point....  

That point could also be made for many ‘driving scenarios’....  for example, even after 5 beers I’d be much safer than some of the speeding pickup drivers I see cutting through the traffic....  (of course I don’t DUI).

 

Regarding ‘ageing’ folks riding a motorcycle, they are more at risk to themselves, so continuing to ride is their own decision... But when ‘older riders’ suggest their reactions are fine and they are fit and healthy etc... they are perhaps pulling the wool over their own eyes....  Their reactions are a lot slower. 

 

My reactions in my 40’s are already a lot slower than they were in my 20’s... (I can tell as I still play football and some of the younger guys in their 20’s are just faster, sharper, quicker... )... its the same when motorcycling.... Guys in their 60’s and 70’s are going to react to situations slower than those in their 30’s and 40’s.. thats just a fact that can’t be argued against no matter how much one’s ego thinks they are ‘fine’... Not accepting this reality is just a bit hubris..  I hope the elder riders do recognise they are slower to react and ride accordingly.

But, also IF the rider is the slowest guy on the road, he’s going to cause other problems and risk getting himself run off the road by an inconsiderate ayhole in a delivery pickup up....   that may be the time to switch to 4 wheels. 

 

[RobU]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its a valid point....  

That point could also be made for many ‘driving scenarios’....  for example, even after 5 beers I’d be much safer than some of the speeding pickup drivers I see cutting through the traffic....  (of course I don’t DUI).

 

Regarding ‘ageing’ folks riding a motorcycle, they are more at risk to themselves, so continuing to ride is their own decision... But when ‘older riders’ suggest their reactions are fine and they are fit and healthy etc... they are perhaps pulling the wool over their own eyes....  Their reactions are a lot slower. 

 

My reactions in my 40’s are already a lot slower than they were in my 20’s... (I can tell as I still play football and some of the younger guys in their 20’s are just faster, sharper, quicker... )... its the same when motorcycling.... Guys in their 60’s and 70’s are going to react to situations slower than those in their 30’s and 40’s.. thats just a fact that can’t be argued against no matter how much one’s ego thinks they are ‘fine’... Not accepting this reality is just a bit hubris..  I hope the elder riders do recognise they are slower to react and ride accordingly.

But, also IF the rider is the slowest guy on the road, he’s going to cause other problems and risk getting himself run off the road by an inconsiderate ayhole in a delivery pickup up....   that may be the time to switch to 4 wheels. 

 

Recent research in the UK showed that Older drivers tended to

1. Leave more room between themselves and the vehicle in front to prevent adding to an accident that happens to the car in front

2. Be more cautious whe joining a main road e.g. not take risks pulling out in front of oncoming cars by hoping they could accellerate fast enough to stop the oncoming car ramming them

3. Drive within the speed limits

4. Drive according to the road conditions rather than according to an inflated ego and ignorance

5. Use mirrors and signals more effectively

6. Have better lane discipline

[Lucky Bones]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

I can assume , but you stated    "We do know that he wasn't wearing a helmet. "

no we don't , unless he is your friend and you have been talking to him, but

I don't think so , the way you have been talking about him.

Quote you      

"- affected by drugs or alcohol 

 

- tired or fatigued 

 

- wearing suitable eye sight glasses for road use. 

 

- mentally unstable 

 

-fit and healthy for riding 

 

- knowledge and ability, having the skillset to ride these dangerous roads 

 

- on medication "

 

or maybe he did not see the wire , that should not have been there  , your embarrassing yourself ....

regards worgeordie

Fair assumption.

[Lucky Bones]

The guy was unlucky. It happens.

No-one expects low lying wires.

Watch Ch32.....it happens every day somewhere.

[Lucky Bones]

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its a valid point....  

That point could also be made for many ‘driving scenarios’....  for example, even after 5 beers I’d be much safer than some of the speeding pickup drivers I see cutting through the traffic....  (of course I don’t DUI).

 

Regarding ‘ageing’ folks riding a motorcycle, they are more at risk to themselves, so continuing to ride is their own decision... But when ‘older riders’ suggest their reactions are fine and they are fit and healthy etc... they are perhaps pulling the wool over their own eyes....  Their reactions are a lot slower. 

 

My reactions in my 40’s are already a lot slower than they were in my 20’s... (I can tell as I still play football and some of the younger guys in their 20’s are just faster, sharper, quicker... )... its the same when motorcycling.... Guys in their 60’s and 70’s are going to react to situations slower than those in their 30’s and 40’s.. thats just a fact that can’t be argued against no matter how much one’s ego thinks they are ‘fine’... Not accepting this reality is just a bit hubris..  I hope the elder riders do recognise they are slower to react and ride accordingly.

But, also IF the rider is the slowest guy on the road, he’s going to cause other problems and risk getting himself run off the road by an inconsiderate ayhole in a delivery pickup up....   that may be the time to switch to 4 wheels. 

 

It all depends where you are going.

I putt putt the Cub to get essentials small sois in Pattaya.

It gets me where I need to be. Back in Aus I hade a wonderful GPZ750.

It is all about awareness and respect for where you are.

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, RobU said:

There are a lot of 'victim shaming' posts on this topic

i.e. he deserved to be pulled off his motorbike by a dangerous hanging wire because

1. He is old (irrelevant)

2. He wasnt wearing a helmet (also Irrelevant)

I wish some people would grow up and stop trolling and actually discuss the topic rather than just finding unneccesary fault with the rider

The wire was a danger to the public and the people you should be shaming are the ones who left it like that

I agree the hanging wire should not have been there.

The fact he was not wearing a helmet is highly relevant. From the location of his injury, it's a no-brainer if he had been wearing a helmet he might well have escaped with just a nasty scare.

Look around you, and see how many Thais are dutifully wearing masks while riding helmetless. Blissfully unaware of the relative probabilities of injury and death via COVID, vs in an accident without a helmet.

It's not victim shaming to say he contributed to his injury, just fact.

[Lacessit]

41 minutes ago, RobU said:

Recent research in the UK showed that Older drivers tended to

1. Leave more room between themselves and the vehicle in front to prevent adding to an accident that happens to the car in front

2. Be more cautious whe joining a main road e.g. not take risks pulling out in front of oncoming cars by hoping they could accellerate fast enough to stop the oncoming car ramming them

3. Drive within the speed limits

4. Drive according to the road conditions rather than according to an inflated ego and ignorance

5. Use mirrors and signals more effectively

6. Have better lane discipline

It's a bit like the aviation aphorism: "There are bold pilots, and there are old pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."

[Lucky Bones]

Just now, Lucky Bones said:

It all depends where you are going.

I putt putt the Cub to get essentials small sois in Pattaya.

It gets me where I need to be. Back in Aus I hade a wonderful GPZ750.

It is all about awareness and respect for where you are.

 

 I haven't drunk one beer or smoked wakky weed and ridden/driven in 20 years.

It was just a decision I made.

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic bickering, baiting, flames and troll posts have been removed also replies to same

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, RobU said:

Recent research in the UK showed that Older drivers tended to

1. Leave more room between themselves and the vehicle in front to prevent adding to an accident that happens to the car in front

2. Be more cautious whe joining a main road e.g. not take risks pulling out in front of oncoming cars by hoping they could accellerate fast enough to stop the oncoming car ramming them

3. Drive within the speed limits

4. Drive according to the road conditions rather than according to an inflated ego and ignorance

5. Use mirrors and signals more effectively

6. Have better lane discipline

All valid points, but they are somewhat vague as no ages are mentioned. 

 

What age did this recent research refer to when it refers to older drivers ?

Are they referring to those in their 40’s compared to those in their 20’s ?... Or are they referring to those older than 70 compared to those younger than 70 ??.

 

It is of course obvious that on average 50 year olds are going to be a lot more careful than 20 year olds. 

 

But.. all of the above missed the point regarding motorcycle riding and reaction / response of older 60+ riders compared to younger riders i.e. those their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s etc.....  So, while those of maturer years are generally wise and cautious at some point the physical restrictions of age outweigh the caution which comes with wisdom and experience. 

 

It should also be noted that many of those who have retired to Thailand may not have experience of riding a motorcycle and at 60 years old there are enjoying their first years of riding.... 

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Regarding ‘ageing’ folks riding a motorcycle, they are more at risk to themselves, so continuing to ride is their own decision... But when ‘older riders’ suggest their reactions are fine and they are fit and healthy etc... they are perhaps pulling the wool over their own eyes....  Their reactions are a lot slower. 

Rubbish! Enough of this damn agism!

 

I'm still riding here accident free after 7 years precisely because my reflexes are still as sharp as they ever were. Regular riding actually serves to keep them sharp. I've avoided several potentially nasty situations because of that. Use them or loose them. 

 

 

[Jorgendk]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:43 PM, steven100 said:

73 years old and riding a motorbike in Thailand .....   what could possibly go wrong   !!

Speek for yourself.. I am 73 and ride motorbike most days.
I have been racing all my life, and I am sure my reaktion is better than most Thai drivers. (not that that say a lot)

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Regarding ‘ageing’ folks riding a motorcycle, they are more at risk to themselves, so continuing to ride is their own decision... But when ‘older riders’ suggest their reactions are fine and they are fit and healthy etc... they are perhaps pulling the wool over their own eyes....  Their reactions are a lot slower. 

Rubbish! Enough of this damn agism!

 

I'm still riding here accident free after 7 years precisely because my reflexes are still as sharp as they ever were. Regular riding actually serves to keep them sharp. I've avoided several potentially nasty situations because of that. Use them or loose them. 

 

Its not ageism... Its just fact.... 

 

I’m suffering too.... when playing football against younger players they are sharper, faster, quicker with better reactions....    with age we slow, there is no getting away from that no matter how your emotions distort your perspective.....  With age we can’t react as quickly, we break more easily and mend more slowly.....  and as we age further our motor-functions also become impeded....

 

At some point there is a line in the sand where riding a motorcycle becomes a lot more dangerous than it was a few years before hand, that line is different for all of us, but its there...  

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Jorgendk said:

Speek for yourself.. I am 73 and ride motorbike most days.
I have been racing all my life, and I am sure my reaktion is better than most Thai drivers. (not that that say a lot)

At 73 your reaction will not be as fast as the majority of riders on the road. 

But as you wrote, with quality training and vast wealth of experience your reaction will be better, your interpretation of events will be better....    

 

But, is your reaction better than it was 10 years ago?.... is it better than the 50 year old you? thats where age comes into and a factor one must evaluate when it comes time to hangup the helmet. 

 

Of course, safety involves much more than age... it also involves were you ride. 

There is a big difference between pottering down to the 7-11, or the beach and back vs lane-splitting and navigating Bangkok’s traffic etc... 

 

 

It would also be a fair assumption to argue that the reaction of the vast majority of ‘Western riders’ here in Thailand have a better reaction than most Thai riders because they read the road ahead and predict the unpredictability rather than make assumptions which when wrong lead to a collision. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

34 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I'm still riding here accident free after 7 years precisely because my reflexes are still as sharp as they ever were. 

Unless you are 24 years old or different from every other human on the planet your reflexes are not as sharp as they 'ever were'.

 

Reflexes and reaction continue to slow as you age - the physical changes in the nerve fibers lose the speed of conduction and the part of the brain involved in motor-function lose cells over time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by richard_smith237

[RobU]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

All valid points, but they are somewhat vague as no ages are mentioned. 

 

What age did this recent research refer to when it refers to older drivers ?

Are they referring to those in their 40’s compared to those in their 20’s ?... Or are they referring to those older than 70 compared to those younger than 70 ??.

 

It is of course obvious that on average 50 year olds are going to be a lot more careful than 20 year olds. 

 

But.. all of the above missed the point regarding motorcycle riding and reaction / response of older 60+ riders compared to younger riders i.e. those their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s etc.....  So, while those of maturer years are generally wise and cautious at some point the physical restrictions of age outweigh the caution which comes with wisdom and experience. 

 

It should also be noted that many of those who have retired to Thailand may not have experience of riding a motorcycle and at 60 years old there are enjoying their first years of riding.... 

 

It was in an an article on the BBC website I honestly cant be bothered to seek it out

Your points are valid regarding reaction times.

I am aquainted with men in england in their 50's and 60's who are just getting their first big bike, they are really the only people who can afford them. Younger people buzz around on 125's then stop riding when they can afford a car since it costs as much to buy and maintain a big bike as it does to run a small car. There are consequences to these men not realising that they are not kids any more. The consequences of ageing vary widely some people deteriorate more rapidly than others. A man in his 70's or 80's could have the strenght and reactions of what is perceived to be a much younger man conversely a man in his 30's or 40's can have the reaction time and physique of a man perceived to be in his 80's it is partially dependant on hormone levels in the body. I respect your statement about those retiring to Thailand.

 

However this isn't about whether old men should ride or not. It's about the dangerous hanging wires of Thailand, the 8th wonder of the world after the hanging gardens of Babylon????

[waders123]

Isn't hanging wires, broken/uneven sidewalks, and possible electrocution every time it rains, what you pay for in the "Adventures to Thailand" package you purchase from your travel agent or airlines?   Come on, (for those that are perpetual complainers), if it were perfect and uneventful you would probably go elsewhere to find something to complain about.  Lighten up!  Yes, the wires are a danger but this gentleman has been living here, it would appear, for a while now and we all learn immediately when first coming to Thailand to watch out for where we place our feet on the sidewalk, motorcycles on the sidewalk, and hanging wires and other obstacles.  It is what it is.  You learn to navigate as everyone else does and go on with your life. 

For the record, I am thankful he is alive, and wish Khun Mark a speedy recovery.  I hope he wears his helmet and watches more carefully where he is going.  This can happen to anyone regardless of age.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by waders123

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It should also be noted that many of those who have retired to Thailand may not have experience of riding a motorcycle and at 60 years old there are enjoying their first years of riding.... 

 

Quite true. IIRC, I first started riding a scooter in Thailand at age 68. No previous experience on two wheels, except for bicycles I rode as a kid.

 

I passed my motorcycle license in Australia, which has somewhat more value than the Thai license I also obtained after a farcical test procedure, which involved looking at a traffic light, and presenting a 200 baht health certificate, indicating I could talk, hear and breathe.

 

What I did enjoy most in the Australian qualification process was the fact I topped the applicants in the written test, while four 18 year-olds flunked and were told to come back in a month's time. They were the ones doing wheelstands in the forecourt while waiting for the testing official to arrive. I'll admit I was only adequate in the practical test.

 

I do not rely on my reflexes, which are pretty slow at 0.4 seconds reaction time. I compensate by not exceeding 40 km/hr in most traffic conditions. I constantly check front, back and sides for threats.

 

I'll know it is time to get off the scooter when I can no longer control it with my GF riding pillion. It will be a sad day when I have to.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Barrydives said:

Plenty have died already because of these wires. One or two more will make no difference.

It works based on a particular location.... like the general traffic accidents and holes in the roads.

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I do not rely on my reflexes, which are pretty slow at 0.4 seconds reaction time. I compensate by not exceeding 40 km/hr in most traffic conditions. I constantly check front, back and sides for threats.

The average conscious reaction time is around 0.2 secs, so yes, at 0.4 secs could be considered slow (although it's not exactly sluggish it)

 

But note what I said. 'The average conscious reaction time'. Reflexive reaction times, the ones that kick in during 'fight or flight mode' are much quicker because they bypass the brain. They are around 0.08 secs and they're are the ones that react in an emergency.

 

When an old lady pulled a U turn in front of me a while ago my brakes were full on before I'd even thought about how to react.

 

Everyone who has spoken about 'reaction times' on this and other threads are probably not aware of this.

 

http://www.scifun.ed.ac.uk/pages/exhibits/ex-reaction-timer.html

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Moonlover

[Gandtee]

22 hours ago, JohnHans said:

My reaction time are probably 2x better than yours sonny, I am 70.

There you go. 'Hans Knees and bumps a daisy.' Ask a Brit.????

[Gandtee]

13 hours ago, RobU said:

It was in an an article on the BBC website I honestly cant be bothered to seek it out

Your points are valid regarding reaction times.

I am aquainted with men in england in their 50's and 60's who are just getting their first big bike, they are really the only people who can afford them. Younger people buzz around on 125's then stop riding when they can afford a car since it costs as much to buy and maintain a big bike as it does to run a small car. There are consequences to these men not realising that they are not kids any more. The consequences of ageing vary widely some people deteriorate more rapidly than others. A man in his 70's or 80's could have the strenght and reactions of what is perceived to be a much younger man conversely a man in his 30's or 40's can have the reaction time and physique of a man perceived to be in his 80's it is partially dependant on hormone levels in the body. I respect your statement about those retiring to Thailand.

 

However this isn't about whether old men should ride or not. It's about the dangerous hanging wires of Thailand, the 8th wonder of the world after the hanging gardens of Babylon????

Well said, Sir. Obviously wired to the nub of the subject.????

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[Noah K]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:43 PM, steven100 said:

73 years old and riding a motorbike in Thailand .....   what could possibly go wrong   !!

I'm 65 years old and I have been riding since I was 14 years old. So, unless they outlaw motorcycles, or take away my drivers license, I will ride until the very end, whatever age that may be. You can get injured at 73 in a car accident as well, but by the looks of the photos, a helmet and other protective riding gear was not being used. That I have an issue with.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Noah K said:

I'm 65 years old and I have been riding since I was 14 years old. So, unless they outlaw motorcycles, or take away my drivers license, I will ride until the very end, whatever age that may be. You can get injured at 73 in a car accident as well, but by the looks of the photos, a helmet and other protective riding gear was not being used. That I have an issue with.

I think I had a mini-bike at about 12! I I rode regularly until I was thirty, and occasionally until I was about sixty. 

 

You can slip in the shower or get hit walking across the street. Life is too short to spend time worrying about what you shouldn't do, particularly at an age where we should be doing what we want, as long as we can. 

[GaWalker]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:43 PM, steven100 said:

73 years old and riding a motorbike in Thailand .....   what could possibly go wrong   !!

Why not if he’s fit and well

[GaWalker]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its not ageism... Its just fact.... 

 

I’m suffering too.... when playing football against younger players they are sharper, faster, quicker with better reactions....    with age we slow, there is no getting away from that no matter how your emotions distort your perspective.....  With age we can’t react as quickly, we break more easily and mend more slowly.....  and as we age further our motor-functions also become impeded....

 

At some point there is a line in the sand where riding a motorcycle becomes a lot more dangerous than it was a few years before hand, that line is different for all of us, but its there...  

 

 

 

Your comparison with agility and speed is laughable, when playing football there’s no choosing to be cautious, it’s all in or get off the pitch, riding a bike on the road isn’t a competitive sport it’s a survival instinct sport. 

[richard_smith237]

41 minutes ago, GaWalker said:

Your comparison with agility and speed is laughable, when playing football there’s no choosing to be cautious, it’s all in or get off the pitch, riding a bike on the road isn’t a competitive sport it’s a survival instinct sport. 

The comparison is to highlight how very noticeable the ‘slow down’ is…..     you may not want to accept that you are a lot slower now than your younger years, but its fact.  
 

Its fact if you are driving a car, riding a motorcycle or walking down the street….  Something happens and your response is slower the older you are.

 

If you don’t like that, you’re in good company. I don’t like that I’m slower either, but to deny this is foolish, and if riding a motorcycle, to deny that your abilities, reaction, reflexes and even faculties diminish with age places you in position whereby your ego is your enemy.