LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

On 10/6/2023 at 4:30 PM, Mike Teavee said:

Depends on whether you were Thai Tax Resident in the years the income was earned & what Tax was paid on that income.

 

E.G. I moved to Thailand full time in 2020 so any money I bring into Thailand that was earned before then is not taxable. 
 

 

I seriously doubt for LTR visa holders that savings from past years (prior to obtaining the LTR visa) will be taxed when transferred to Thailand.  Further in many cases those now on pension in Thailand were likely already taxed by countries that have tax agreements with Thailand,  and they have saved that already taxed money,  which means no double tax (due to such tax agreements).

 

Obviously, if a pensioner in Thailand was also working in Thailand, prior to obtaining the LTR visa, and they did not pay Thai tax the LTR visa is NOT going to suddenly exempt them from what they failed to legally do in previous years.  But to see beyond that to think past already taxed savings from abroad would suddenly be taxed when the money is brought into Thailand to invest, or to use for Thailand living expenses, is contrary to the entire reason of the LTR and in my view highly unlikely.

 

Honestly - I just read a bunch of scaremongering on this thread about potential tax changes - full of speculation. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by oldcpu

[K2938]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

What countries might those be? Remittance taxation vs income taxation seems so weird. Are these OECD countries? Thanx.

The UK and various former colonies of the UK or countries with a legal system in the UK tradition for example have remittance taxation for certain non-domiciled, but tax resident individuals.  You can google on the internet.  Somewhere higher up in this or the LTR thread I also as an example posted a link to some of the rules from the UK which can give you an indication of how complex things might become.

Edited October 7, 2023 by K2938

[Misty]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:30 AM, SHA 2 BKK said:

Saw this on a Reddit Sub Forum.   Very much of interest to LTR VIsa holders given the discussions on overseas remittances.  It comes from an AM-Cham meeting specifically to discuss the RD’s announcement on taxing overseas remittance.  

“

Just listened in on the AMCHAM presentation.

Key takeaways -

As of Jan 1, 2024

-You are a Tax resident in Thailand regardless of your Visa status if you stay here 180 days or more. Always been the case, but not enforced. Stay less than 180 days, you can transfer as much money as you want into the country - no need to declare or file thai tax.

- Any transfers into the country will need to be declared. To avoid double taxation, you will need to file taxes in Thailand yearly and claim exemption.

- Thai Elite Visa does not help. The only visa classes that will allow tax free transfers the 4 categories of LTR. https://www.belaws.com/thailand/ltr-visa-tax-benefits/ - under theses visas you will need to work anyway, but income tax is capped at 17%, transfers into Thailand, are tax free.

- They will be monitoring foreign credit card and debit card transactions in Thailand and will tie into the global system. How they will do that is anyone's guess.”

 

 

For LTR visas, the BoI has clarified that these three categories allow tax free transfers:  GWC, P, WP.  But the LTR Highly Skilled Professionals does not.  Conversely, only one LTR visa has income tax capped at 17% - the LTR HSP.  The other LTR visas all have the normal progressive income tax rates up to 35%.

[K2938]

14 hours ago, aublumberg said:

What makes you think it would be retroactive? Any indication in any announcement or regulatory changes? Their announcement says effective 01 Jan 2024.

There appear to be two things to differentiate:

(1) The time at which the money is remitted to Thailand:  The new tax law interpretation indeed only covers remittances made on or after Jan 1, 2024.

 

(2) The other thing however is the time the foreign income arose, i.e. not when it was remitted, but when it arose.  According to the Thai language Q&A from the Thai Revenue Department on the new tax law interpretation from a few days ago the link to which is posted higher up in this or the general tax thread it would appear that this is NOT limited to income which only arose on or after Jan 1, 2024. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by K2938

[oldcpu]

35 minutes ago, K2938 said:

The UK and various former colonies of the UK or countries with a legal system in the UK tradition for example have remittance taxation for certain non-domiciled, but tax resident individuals.  You can google on the internet.  Somewhere higher up in this or the LTR thread I also as an example posted a link to some of the rules from the UK which can give you an indication of how complex things might become.

I googled this and I read for the UK :

 

"A double tax agreement may specify that the pension is taxable only in the UK, or only in the other country. In the latter case, the double tax agreement effectively overrides the UK domestic position and no UK tax is due"  (but one still may be required to report the pension the the HM Revenue & Customs). So again, DTA (double tax agreements) plays an important factor here and one may not in the UK have to pay tax on foreign pension money brought into the UK, based on the DTA with the originating country of one's pension.

 

Also - even if taxed in the UK on one's foreign pension, the DTA typically allows one to get the taxes back that one paid in the foreign country. So there is no double taxation by bringing pension money into the UK.

Edited October 7, 2023 by oldcpu

[SHA 2 BKK]

50 minutes ago, Misty said:

For LTR visas, the BoI has clarified that these three categories allow tax free transfers:  GWC, P, WP.  But the LTR Highly Skilled Professionals does not.  Conversely, only one LTR visa has income tax capped at 17% - the LTR HSP.  The other LTR visas all have the normal progressive income tax rates up to 35%.

Misty you know more than all than all of us combined!  Changing LTR midstream - champion in my books.  Yes 17% on Thai sourced income.  But for we “poor” pensioners no tax reduction for income made in Thailand but zero tax on income remitted from the previous year?  
 

I reckon I close to the mark Krap????

[TravelerEastWest]

On 10/2/2023 at 7:58 AM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Yes I understand what you mean, but the rent I was referring to where they were charged for stay and separare bill for electric and cleaner was a hotel style rent scheme of pool villas in Hua Hin. Imagine you going in any hotel in Thailand and they charge you separate...it would lead to an uproar all over social media and give bad publicity one the visitor is back home.

Not unusual in Thailand i have stayed in a hotel paying by the week and was charged for electricity as used - water was not expensive and not charged.

[TravelerEastWest]

I heard today that LTR pension visas qualify you for 17% tax rates if you have Thai income.

 

Also that the once a year reports can now be done online just like a 90 day report.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by TravelerEastWest

[Pib]

21 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I heard today that LTR pension visas qualify you for 17% tax rates if you have Thai income.

 

Also that the once a year reports can now be done online just like a 90 day report.

 

 

Heard where/from who?   Maybe got a weblink?  Thanks.

[TravelerEastWest]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Heard where/from who?   Maybe got a weblink?  Thanks.

From a visa agency that is a certified partner with the BOI - but this is Thailand he could be wrong so I asked him to confirm directly with BOI... stay tuned for an update.

Edited October 12, 2023 by TravelerEastWest

[SHA 2 BKK]

Don’t use an agent.  Just go through BOI.   Yes no 90 day report just annually if you don’t leave the country.  I only stayed one year and that during COVID. 
 

0% Tax on remittances from Overseas (as long as earned the year before) for three types of Visas.  
 

If you work in Thailand as a Highly Skilled LTR 17% Tax.  
 

Some “chicken littles” saying the Government is going to get rid of this Visa but I think after Farangs stop sending so much coin after January 1 they wont dare.  Time will tell.  
 

Anyway it’s far better than the Elite Visa (I had one before this). No 90 reports.  
 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

[Ben Zioner]

20 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Anyway it’s far better than the Elite Visa (I had one before this). No 90 reports.  

Obviously, but let's pray they don't close it. You  know Thais tend  to believe that foreigners are ready yo pay any amount to stay in the Land Of Smiles. But the truth is that I couldn't afford to pay income tax  in Thailand. I the  EU many countries tax the family unit, for instance in France I'd pay only 35% of the tax I'd pay here.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Ben Zioner

[Ben Zioner]

10 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Some “chicken littles” saying the Government is going to get rid of this Visa

Could you clarify the  meaning of "chicken littles" in this context?

[Seppius]

A friend of mine is going for the LTR, 43yo and a UK citizen, he is using a lawyer in Bangkok to prepare the application, he fits all the requirements.

 

I will update how he gets on

[SHA 2 BKK]

2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Could you clarify the  meaning of "chicken littles" in this context?

Some bloke on the main “2024 Tax Thread” said the LTR was a hangover from the previous Government and a pet project of some out of favour ex Minister.  The gist was there will be a new Royal Decree to get rid of the LTR Visa. 
 

Proper “chicken little thinking”.  
 

Anyway I will have to enough coin here by December to see me through the whole of next year and keep my dollars parked offshore to see how this plays out. 
 

Yes most Thais see Farngs as easy marks with lots of money but to get rid of the LTR will hurt their EEC project and certainly see me finding a new Tax Domicile post.  TIT. 

[TravelerEastWest]

"For the tax question, yes, you are subject to 17%. (Pension category) There are lot of misleading information online. 

And yes, the annual report can be done online."

 

Confirmed above from BOI via my agent.

[SHA 2 BKK]

2 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

"For the tax question, yes, you are subject to 17%. (Pension category) There are lot of misleading information online. 

And yes, the annual report can be done online."

 

Confirmed above from BOI via my agent.

No.  The Pension LTR is Tax Free on Foreign Remittances (as long as earned the previous year)

 Highly Skilled LTRs pay 17% tax on income earned in Thailand.  I don’t think they can claim the tax free for Overseas Remittance.  
 

This is from the BOI to me.  I wouldn’t use an agent personally. 
 

“

Thank you for your inquiry. On the note of the recent Revenue Department announcement on the new conditions for oversea income that generate from business/ asset or work abroad to be subject for personal income tax. 

 

We would like to address that for the LTR tax benefits: the revenue department has already announced a royal decree to exempt the LTR- Wealthy Global/ Wealthy Pension/ Work from Thailand from paying the income tax derived from oversea business/ work and assets. Therefore the change in conditions will not effect the exemption of the LTR mentioned group. 

 

Therefore, we can assure you that the incentive of the LTR visa is still the same. We also believe the revenue department will shortly give an official clarification also as it is their main responsibility and we will work with them to get the procedure for future assistance i.e. to address when you wire in the money that it is from the work remotely (same as in LTR application)- the revenue can cross check with us if they want, don't worry. 

 

If you have any further inquiry or find any obstacles, please let us know so we can address the issue with revenue department on your behalf.”

 

[Ben Zioner]

6 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Some bloke on the main “2024 Tax Thread” said the LTR was a hangover from the previous Government and a pet project of some out of favour ex Minister.  The gist was there will be a new Royal Decree to get rid of the LTR Visa. 

Sadly this cannot be  entirely discounted. And amusingly they asked us to sign a document saying the  50k visa fee wasn't refundable, whatever happend to the programme.

 

Regarding the transfer of cash before December 31, I  reckon it is a good idea, but I'll spread it over 3 or  4 years, just to keep the  tax in lower brackets, if the worst was to happen.

[TravelerEastWest]

28 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Don’t use an agent.  Just go through BOI.   Yes no 90 day report just annually if you don’t leave the country.  I only stayed one year and that during COVID. 
 

0% Tax on remittances from Overseas (as long as earned the year before) for three types of Visas.  
 

If you work in Thailand as a Highly Skilled LTR 17% Tax.  
 

Some “chicken littles” saying the Government is going to get rid of this Visa but I think after Farangs stop sending so much coin after January 1 they wont dare.  Time will tell.  
 

Anyway it’s far better than the Elite Visa (I had one before this). No 90 reports.  
 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

I prefer going through an agent as i am working more than full time and have a family so I am busy 7 days a week and the money is not an issue Also I am in the habit of using a an agent for my Thai wife visa as they did all the forms and made an appointment for me...

 

But thank you for your advice!

 

Recently my agent helped with a LTR pension visa and a digital work permit with 17% tax was allowed. But you never know things change...

[TravelerEastWest]

9 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

No.  The Pension LTR is Tax Free on Foreign Remittances (as long as earned the previous year)

 Highly Skilled LTRs pay 17% tax on income earned in Thailand.  I don’t think they can claim the tax free for Overseas Remittance.  
 

This is from the BOI to me.  I wouldn’t use an agent personally. 
 

“

Thank you for your inquiry. On the note of the recent Revenue Department announcement on the new conditions for oversea income that generate from business/ asset or work abroad to be subject for personal income tax. 

 

We would like to address that for the LTR tax benefits: the revenue department has already announced a royal decree to exempt the LTR- Wealthy Global/ Wealthy Pension/ Work from Thailand from paying the income tax derived from oversea business/ work and assets. Therefore the change in conditions will not effect the exemption of the LTR mentioned group. 

 

Therefore, we can assure you that the incentive of the LTR visa is still the same. We also believe the revenue department will shortly give an official clarification also as it is their main responsibility and we will work with them to get the procedure for future assistance i.e. to address when you wire in the money that it is from the work remotely (same as in LTR application)- the revenue can cross check with us if they want, don't worry. 

 

If you have any further inquiry or find any obstacles, please let us know so we can address the issue with revenue department on your behalf.”

 

Sorry for any confusion in my post the quotes were from my Thai agent so may not be clear:

 

17% refers to Thai income in Thailand using a digital work permit.

LTR Pension visa does not have a no work limitation apparently that is an misunderstanding...

 

I understand that you would not use an agent but I am comfortable paying agents and accountants etc all the time to both get advice and free up my time. I am shall we say somewhat busy those with families and a lot of work will understand... Normally i save money by hiring professionals.

Edited October 12, 2023 by TravelerEastWest

[Ben Zioner]

3 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I prefer going through an agent as i am working more than full time and have a family so I am busy 7 days a week and the money is not an issue Also I am in the habit of using a an agent for my Thai wife visa as they did all the forms and made an appointment for me...

 

But thank you for your advice!

 

Recently my agent helped with a LTR pension visa and a digital work permit with 17% tax was allowed. But you never know things change...

Could you PM the coordinates of your agent?  Even if we remain tax free, I'll need to find ways  to minimize tax(es) for my Thai wife after my demise. She'll get half my pension (monthly) and my savings. So the tax changes definitely affect us.

[SHA 2 BKK]

2 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Sorry for any confusion in my post the quotes were from my Thai agent so may not be clear:

 

17% refers to Thai income in Thailand using a digital work permit.

LTR Pension visa does not have a no work limitation apparently that is an misunderstanding...

 

I understand that you would not use an agent but I am comfortable paying agents and accountants etc all the time to both get advice and free up my time. I am shall we say somewhat busy those with families and a lot of work will understand... Normally i save money by hiring professionals.

Understand matey.  I did my whole family online.  Finished in two weeks! 
 

But I don’t want any work visa in Thailand.   Retirement now and live off my pension and investments.  
 

Personally I’m kind of happy not to be in the Thai Tax system (yet)!  

[TravelerEastWest]

20 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Understand matey.  I did my whole family online.  Finished in two weeks! 
 

But I don’t want any work visa in Thailand.   Retirement now and live off my pension and investments.  
 

Personally I’m kind of happy not to be in the Thai Tax system (yet)!  

I am in the Thai tax system as I work full time here and I have a local CPA take care of all tax returns auditors etc - very easy... Work permits have always been easy and now will soon be easier.

 

Sounds like being retired you have an easy life! In the future I will be there - maybe - my kids will go to university in America soon which is very expensive... My wife and I would like to do some interesting traveling and will not be doing it soon...

Edited October 12, 2023 by TravelerEastWest

[TravelerEastWest]

27 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Could you PM the coordinates of your agent?  Even if we remain tax free, I'll need to find ways  to minimize tax(es) for my Thai wife after my demise. She'll get half my pension (monthly) and my savings. So the tax changes definitely affect us.

I can't give a reference today as I don't have my visa yet but here is where you start:

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/page/ca.html

 

Ask the usual questions:

 

Cost?

How they operate?

How many have you done so far? (and which type)

 

it is difficult to find a good tax specialist in Thailand other than the large accounting firms (and some law firms) but for after you are dead to be safe I would find a Thai CPA that has lots of experience with your situation...

[SHA 2 BKK]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I am in the Thai tax system as I work full time here and I have a local CPA take care of all tax returns auditors etc - very easy... Work permits have always been easy and now will soon be easier.

 

Sounds like being retired you have an easy life! In the future I will be there - maybe - my kids will go to university in America soon which is very expensive... My wife and I would like to do some interesting traveling and will not be doing it soon...

Apart the missus keeping me on me toes it's very good to live here and have done so for 8 years.  It's a good base to travel (In Australia half the trip is just getting out of the place).  My kids go to International school here and we have seen much of Asia.  Good luck for your travels mate.

[TravelerEastWest]

49 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Apart the missus keeping me on me toes it's very good to live here and have done so for 8 years.  It's a good base to travel (In Australia half the trip is just getting out of the place).  My kids go to International school here and we have seen much of Asia.  Good luck for your travels mate.

My wife keeps me on my toes and my kids are in international school also - we have some things in common...

 

I always thought that Thai wives listened to every word of their husbands but apparently the good ones are like a tough school teacher...

[SHA 2 BKK]

22 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

My wife keeps me on my toes and my kids are in international school also - we have some things in common...

 

I always thought that Thai wives listened to every word of their husbands but apparently the good ones are like a tough school teacher...

THAI!  Count your blessings cobber.  My better half is from Singapore!  Stone the bloody crows they are tough bloody work.  Enough to drive a man to drink but it's Buddhist Lent and I promised to be good.  Anyway I've been impressed with this LTR Visa - let's hope they don't change it.  

[TravelerEastWest]

But these ladies make great mothers!

 

ON to the LTR visa after more conversations with my agent the 17% tax rate is not available for the Pension version I am applying for. I have Thai income but not a lot so it is not an issue.

[mudcat]

It never made much sense to market a new visa program to persons who demonstrate the wherewithal to bring significant assets, income, or cash benefits into the kingdom only to turn around and  subject the transfers to taxation.  The exception for highly skilled workers being granted a capped low tax rate is reasonable recognition they are not bringing assets but their skills.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, mudcat said:

It never made much sense to market a new visa program to persons who demonstrate the wherewithal to bring significant assets, income, or cash benefits into the kingdom only to turn around and  subject the transfers to taxation.  The exception for highly skilled workers being granted a capped low tax rate is reasonable recognition they are not bringing assets but their skills.

While not true in every case, most wealthy individuals who become long term residents will spend plenty of money here which has a beneficial effect on the economy. I personally think the LTR visa program has been well thought out and implemented (amazingly, without a hint of corruption). It will attract many who would otherwise not consider Thailand as their base.