LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, stat said:

It is not exactly a "what if" question it is a simple question if the existing 50.000 Baht LTR visa will shelter unremitted income no matter what (royal degree). Further more it is maybe the most important point of the LTR visa for most people. BOI could also answer "we do not know" which would imply there is a real risk. BTW they already answered the question for remitted incomeso it is not that they are not answering what you called a "what if" question.

 

That they are not answering the question about unremitted income (so far) shows already that the risk is very real. Frankly I do not fully understand your post as I read into your kind answer that you do not really care if you are taxed to the hilt with 35%! on capital gains or not at all come 2025. This tax change amounts to a MINIMUM tax of about 25.000K USD p.a. in case you only have the minimum 80K USD for passive income for LTR and stay 179 days plus in TH.

 

But maybe I am misinterpreting your post or I am overlooking something.

My understanding of your question was you were trying to get BOI to answer if unremitted income under the worldwide taxable income "what-if" would be taxable.    

 

Under the new & improved tax rule (whether you have an LTR visa or not) if the income such as cap gains is not remitted its not taxable. 

 

Now if the "what if" worldwide income taxing method is implemented whether remitted or not then there could be tax depending on any DTA between Thailand and your country.    

 

And even the new & improved tax rule still has a lot of unanswered questions which the Thai Revenue Dept will surely continue their vague to no answer information crossfeed methods.

 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, stat said:

It is not exactly a "what if" question it is a simple question if the existing 50.000 Baht LTR visa will shelter unremitted income no matter what (royal degree).

I don't know how long you have been in Thailand, but you have to know that it is near impossible to get an honest "I don't know" answer from anyone here. Right now nobody knows when the "global income" change will come into effect and how it will affect RD 743.

 

But I am not too optimistic, and I reckon nobody is here. Even though I wouldn't mind if they exempted "remitted income" only. But that's me.

[stat]

25 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I don't know how long you have been in Thailand, but you have to know that it is near impossible to get an honest "I don't know" answer from anyone here. Right now nobody knows when the "global income" change will come into effect and how it will affect RD 743.

 

But I am not too optimistic, and I reckon nobody is here. Even though I wouldn't mind if they exempted "remitted income" only. But that's me.

I am fully aware of the "loss of face" issue at play here and mentioned it in one of my posts before.

 

This is why I am thinking the "not answering" of BOI is the answer we were afraid of.

 

As long as the issue is not solved the LTR is seriously lacking IMHO. It is like asking immigration can I enter TH with the LTR visa that I paid 50000 baht for and the answer is we do not know and we do not care to answer as you arrive in the future. What strikes me is that some posters here think that this is perfectly normal and acceptable (not you).

 

I know fully well that every TH visa comes with the caveat that the entry is at the discretion of the IO officer 😉. In the case of the LTR visa we are not talking about a 2 week trip and 1000USD loss we are talking about planing to live 10 years abroad and paying hundred of thousands USD in taxes and having clear conditions at least when applying.

 

I love Thailand and the interaction with BOI was pleasant but paying 50.000 Baht for a visa just to pay more tax then back home does not make economic sense.

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

2 hours ago, stat said:

It is not exactly a "what if" question it is a simple question if the existing 50.000 Baht LTR visa will shelter unremitted income no matter what (royal degree). Further more it is maybe the most important point of the LTR visa for most people. BOI could also answer "we do not know" which would imply there is a real risk. BTW they already answered the question for remitted incomeso it is not that they are not answering what you called a "what if" question.

I understand what you are asking them, but I wouldn't expect them to answer you because they don't know whether a new tax law on worldwide income will be passed or not. Yes, BOI answered, that under the current rules, all remitted income is tax exempt once I obtained my LTR-WP visa. That's all I expected them to say. We already know, that under the current rules, all unremitted income is tax exempt for everyone, so I didn't need to ask BOI about that. It didn't matter to me whether a new worldwide tax law was passed or not because I wanted the LTR-WP visa for the convenience of not having to renew my extension each year and of not hvaing to do 90-day reports. If they pass a new law and I lose my tax exempt status, no problem, I will just stay less than 180 days every year, so I'm not a tax resident.

[K2938]

8 hours ago, stat said:

BOI is not answering my email about tax exemption of unremitted income in 2025. So I guess there will be no gurantee that unremitted income will be tax free if ww taxation comes into existence.

 

I would highly appreciate it if others were to ask BOI about tax exemption of unremitted income for LTR visa holders.

If tax is very important to you and the LTR does not work, as it might well not, consider Malaysia.  The MM2H visa there is more costly, but under the new MM2H rules just released a few days ago, foreign income remitted and unremitted is tax-free there. 

[K2938]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Yeah...I wouldn't bug BOI with "what if" scenarios...and I can understand why they don't reply to "what if" type questions such as future possible tax changes.

But then the proper thing to do would be to respond accordingly instead of just ignoring the question

[K2938]

2 hours ago, stat said:

This tax change amounts to a MINIMUM tax of about 25.000K USD p.a. in case you only have the minimum 80K USD for passive income for LTR and stay 179 days plus in TH.

The vast majority of LTR retirement visa holders on this forum and outside are pension rich, not asset/capital gains rich.  So their situation is entirely different from yours.  And the people who drew up the rules for the LTR visa also really largely only focused on pensioners and are evidently struggling to even really understand other people.  Otherwise you would not have the most bizarre rules like the $100k for the insurance waiver cannot be in a brokerage account, capital gains are disliked etc. etc.

[stat]

7 minutes ago, K2938 said:

The vast majority of LTR retirement visa holders on this forum and outside are pension rich, not asset/capital gains rich.  So there situation is entirely different from yours.  And the people who drew up the rules for the LTR visa also really largely only focused on pensioners.  Otherwise you would not have the most bizarre rules like the $100k for the insurance waiver cannot be in a brokerage account, capital gains are disliked etc. etc.

You are correct I missed the part about most of the LTR holders being pension rich! Some pensions being exempted by DBA so people with those pensions do not care much about change of law, thanks for pointing it out! 

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

37 minutes ago, K2938 said:

The vast majority of LTR retirement visa holders on this forum and outside are pension rich, not asset/capital gains rich.

Just curious how you know the vast majority on this forum and outside are pension rich, and not asset/capital gains rich. If they passed a worldwide income tax law, I would be paying about $25k to $30k to Thailand in taxes, maybe more. I didn't bother to figure it. And, that would be after my Social Security DTA and other deductions. if I loss my tax exempt status, I would just stay less than 180 days per year, so I'm not a tax resident. I'm pretty sure many others who worked long enough to have earned $80k plus in pensions, also have other income streams like me.

[stat]

59 minutes ago, K2938 said:

If tax is very important to you and the LTR does not work, as it might well not, consider Malaysia.  The MM2H visa there is more costly, but under the new MM2H rules just released a few days ago, foreign income remitted and unremitted is tax-free there. 

MM2H is on my radar, thanks for mentioning it! Malaysia is a very nice country, however I find the pool villa options are very limited or non existent in Malaysia so Malaysia is behind the PH on my list where to go to next.

[stat]

25 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Just curious how you know the vast majority on this forum and outside are pension rich, and not asset/capital gains rich. If they passed a worldwide income tax law, I would be paying about $25k to $30k to Thailand in taxes, maybe more. I didn't bother to figure it. And, that would be after my Social Security DTA and other deductions. if I loss my tax exempt status, I would just stay less than 180 days per year, so I'm not a tax resident. I'm pretty sure many others who worked long enough to have earned $80k plus in pensions, also have other income streams like me.

In my country Germany I am one of the very few asset rich and pension "poor", but I agree with you no one really knows about the distribution of wealth vs pensions but I always got the feeling on ASEAN I am the outlier and most people have a pension + some rental income from back home with cap gains a distant 3rd.

 

I would never go above 179 days in TH if I had to pay like 50% tax on my ww income. Do not forget losses are not counted AFAIK, so you could end up paying more taxes then you actually earned in a year. In addition I doubt they would understand a US brokerage statement at least outside of BKK.

[oldcpu]

22 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Just curious how you know the vast majority on this forum and outside are pension rich, and not asset/capital gains rich.

 

I don't think the vast majority of LTR visa holders on the forum are pensioners, but I note from the BoI website most recent statistic, they (the pensioners) are the largest group (if one ignores 'dependents').

 

There are 1,260 LTR-WP according to BoI (at end of May), and ignoring 'dependents' the next largest number is 922 highly skilled professionals, followed by 634 work from home professionals.  The 'wealthy global citizens' are relatively a very small number, only 197.

 

I also suspect the number of LTR-WP, whose passive income has not yet been taxed outside of Thailand, is relatively small. 

 

Yes, I know some have managed to legally work for employers where there is now no tax on their pension (and thats good for them !! ) , but I suspect that is a relatively small minority, and most LTR-WP holders have already paid tax on their pensions and are covered by a Double Tax Agreement (DTA).

 

Still having typed that, I think most of us are very interested to learn how these tax implementations will 'pan out'.

.

[JackGats]

11 hours ago, stat said:

BOI is not answering my email about tax exemption of unremitted income in 2025. So I guess there will be no gurantee that unremitted income will be tax free if ww taxation comes into existence.

 

I would highly appreciate it if others were to ask BOI about tax exemption of unremitted income for LTR visa holders.

 

 

This is what I see on their website. Good enough for now ie for 2024. I don't think it is productive to badger the BOI about what will happen post 2024.

 

 

[stat]

14 hours ago, JackGats said:

This is what I see on their website. Good enough for now ie for 2024. I don't think it is productive to badger the BOI about what will happen post 2024.

 

 

2025 is 5 monthy away and we are talking about a 10 year visa... No offense but if a pictogram is good enough for you, there is no basis for an exchange of arguments. I agree for the rest of 2024 the LTR visa should be OK taxwise.

[Presnock]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:38 PM, stat said:

BOI is not answering my email about tax exemption of unremitted income in 2025. So I guess there will be no gurantee that unremitted income will be tax free if ww taxation comes into existence.

 

I would highly appreciate it if others were to ask BOI about tax exemption of unremitted income for LTR visa holders.

 

 

it is on the advertised page for the BOI LTR - says remitted income is not taxable.  If any of the benefits are dropped, the BOI I am sure they would advise us to that effect of the new tax interpretation.  Once you get the LTR you have an account with them and they can easily advise one of any changes.  I got my LTR in March of this year so this taxing of remitted income came before and nothing has been said.  If they do drop it out, I will make sure I alert folks on this forum.  good luck

[stat]

8 minutes ago, Presnock said:

it is on the advertised page for the BOI LTR - says remitted income is not taxable.  If any of the benefits are dropped, the BOI I am sure they would advise us to that effect of the new tax interpretation.  Once you get the LTR you have an account with them and they can easily advise one of any changes.  I got my LTR in March of this year so this taxing of remitted income came before and nothing has been said.  If they do drop it out, I will make sure I alert folks on this forum.  good luck

Thanks for your post! I am however talking about unremitted income.

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! I am however talking about unremitted income.

I think you are wasting your time asking BOI to comment on future tax policy or asking them to guarantee you that future foreign unremitted income will be tax exempt if you buy the LTR visa. If you want a 10-year LTR visa, you will probably just have to buy one based on the current rules, and then hope for the best like everyone else. Good luck...

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! I am however talking about unremitted income.

As far as I'm aware, the "Tax on Worldwide Income" was suggested as an idea by 1 person & has so far not progressed to any kind of official policy so I'm not surprised BOI do not have an answer for you, though they should have given you an answer similar to what I just said! 

 

I think it's going to be a case of wait & see and I can understand your frustration being faced with paying 50K for a Visa that you might not use, I'm lucky in a way in that I won't be in a position to apply for the LTR until Feb 2026 so time on my side to see how things shape up.

 

BUT, if I could get an LTR tomorrow I would... Financially it works out better for me (I pay 12K per year for my extensions/re-entry permits because I use an Agent (for convenience), 8K Extension + 4K for a Multi Re-entry permit) and pre-covid used to pay 20K pa to Thailand Long Stay Management for unlimited fast track In/Out at BKK (was visiting/leaving every other weekend so worked out less than 500B a time), I'd happily pay 5K pa for that alone now even though I only enter/leave 2-3 times pa nowadays.

 

 

 

 

[JackGats]

Is anybody here suggesting remitted income might be tax-free for LTR holders while unremitted income might be taxable? This would be the World upside down. This would mean you'd need to have your pension transferred direct to your Thai bank account for it to be tax-free.

[JohnnyBD]

42 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Is anybody here suggesting remitted income might be tax-free for LTR holders while unremitted income might be taxable? This would be the World upside down. This would mean you'd need to have your pension transferred direct to your Thai bank account for it to be tax-free.

No, not at all. The person has emailed BOI 2 or 3 times asking if unremitted income would still be tax free for LTR visa holders if Thailand passes a worldwide income tax law in 2025. BOI would not answer him, because they do not know if any new tax laws will be passed in 2025. You just have to read back through the posts. He is trying to get BOI to put it in writing that unremitted income will be tax exempt if a new worldwide tax law is passed before he buys a LTR visa because he doesn't want to spend 50k for a LTR visa, and then have the laws change which would require him to report his worldwide income and pay taxes on it. That's what I understand anyway. Under the current law, all unremitted income is tax exempt for everyone, and remitted income is tax exempt for LTR-WP visa holders as per Royal Decree 743.

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! I am however talking about unremitted income.

 

4 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

No, not at all. The person has emailed BOI 2 or 3 times asking if unremitted income would still be tax free for LTR visa holders if Thailand passes a worldwide income tax law in 2025. BOI would not answer him, because they do not know if any new tax laws will be passed in 2025. You just have to read back through the posts. He is trying to get BOI to put it in writing that unremitted income will be tax exempt if a new worldwide tax law is passed before he buys a LTR visa because he doesn't want to spend 50k for a LTR visa, and then have the laws change which would require him to report his worldwide income and pay taxes on it. That's what I understand anyway. Under the current law, all unremitted income is tax exempt for everyone, and remitted income is tax exempt for LTR-WP visa holders as per Royal Decree 743.

This year unremitted doesn't count but if an who knows if that will pass and even if the current govt will be in power, but if it does passl and worldwide income counts, even the BOI doesn't know where the LTR folks will be, just have to wait and see what the final gazette article says about any new laws or amendments to current laws.  How can any office predict publically on something?  WIsh that were a policy worldwide. have a good day..Thunderstorm and rain here in BKK

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

How can any office predict publically on something?

That is what I've been telling this person. BOI is not going to comment publicly on future tax policy. Not raining here in Phrom Phong.

[Presnock]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:49 AM, JohnnyBD said:

BOI probably blocked you after you sent your second request. 

I just do not understand why anyone with half a brain would ask any govt office especially in this country to PREDICT what the tax situation will be with the next tax program that is just now under discussion!

 

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

As far as I'm aware, the "Tax on Worldwide Income" was suggested as an idea by 1 person & has so far not progressed to any kind of official policy so I'm not surprised BOI do not have an answer for you, though they should have given you an answer similar to what I just said! 

 

I think it's going to be a case of wait & see and I can understand your frustration being faced with paying 50K for a Visa that you might not use, I'm lucky in a way in that I won't be in a position to apply for the LTR until Feb 2026 so time on my side to see how things shape up.

 

BUT, if I could get an LTR tomorrow I would... Financially it works out better for me (I pay 12K per year for my extensions/re-entry permits because I use an Agent (for convenience), 8K Extension + 4K for a Multi Re-entry permit) and pre-covid used to pay 20K pa to Thailand Long Stay Management for unlimited fast track In/Out at BKK (was visiting/leaving every other weekend so worked out less than 500B a time), I'd happily pay 5K pa for that alone now even though I only enter/leave 2-3 times pa nowadays.

 

 

 

 

plus no 90-day reports either...then just an avisory to the BOI on your yearly address (however you do it by exciting the country and then starting the year over before next report) or have your wife or agent advise the BOI of your address.  Some of us are still going to be protected by the DTA's with our native countries and our pensions.  JUst saying...and I am sure that the BOI will advise those of us who have an account with them already, of any change to the benefits.  No one could expect any office or person to PREDICT what his govt will do in the future - even if the current one is still in power.

[Presnock]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:32 PM, stat said:

It is not exactly a "what if" question it is a simple question if the existing 50.000 Baht LTR visa will shelter unremitted income no matter what (royal degree). Further more it is maybe the most important point of the LTR visa for most people. BOI could also answer "we do not know" which would imply there is a real risk. BTW they already answered the question for remitted incomeso it is not that they are not answering what you called a "what if" question.

 

That they are not answering the question about unremitted income (so far) shows already that the risk is very real. Frankly I do not fully understand your post as I read into your kind answer that you do not really care if you are taxed to the hilt with 35%! on capital gains or not at all come 2025. This tax change amounts to a MINIMUM tax of about 25.000K USD p.a. in case you only have the minimum 80K USD for passive income for LTR and stay 179 days plus in TH.

 

But maybe I am misinterpreting your post or I am overlooking something.

actually, I have a US govt pension, so the tax remitted exempted wasn't a consideration for me...I opted for the BOI LTR so no more 90-day reports, no yearly extension with anything other than letting BOI know where on is living, in and out much easier  for me and in the long run could be even  cheaper than doing yearly extensions.  Just saying...for me it was/is the best option going.

[mokwit]

At a certain level of assets it seems foreigners cease to be a threat to"national security" such that they have to report their address every 90 days. It is really about keeping us in our place.

[Presnock]

On 6/21/2024 at 11:31 AM, JimGant said:

Several months ago I asked BoI about mail-in 365 day reports. They weren't too keen on it, but advised to look at the SMART site and use the address given there. Well, yesterday I brought up that SMART site to get the address -- and it had  disappeared. So, I asked BoI about it, and about reporting by mail. Here's their answer:

 

So, no more mail-in options for 365 day reporting, for both LTR and SMART visa holders. I would imagine Immigration just didn't want to deal with mail call.

 

Mail-in was my backup plan. Plan A was using the LTR agent here in Chiang Mai -- Star Visa. So, today I took my filled in TM95 and -- as they said was absolutely required -- my TM30. Imagine my surprise when they said something like, "You're our first TM95 customer; we're not too sure if Immigration has total grasp on this; we'll keep you advised" Gulp.

 

Now, maybe I'll have to go to Bangkok -- or hire a mule to go for me. Probably easier just to fly out and back across the border.

I have an LTR and never heard or read anything about a mail in 365 -day report.  All I have seen is an agent, including one's wife or whatever could take the form 95 to the BOI for that notification which is to provide them with one's current address or the bit about leaving Thailand during the one-year period and upon re-entry the 365 days begin once more.

 

On 6/23/2024 at 12:47 PM, Pib said:

 

Where did you get that TM95 weblink from?   Maybe just made it up?

 

I can replace the the tm95 portion of the weblink with most anything like tm0, tm999, etc., and still get above system maintenance message vs a no such weblink type message.

I believe you should be able to find the tm95 on the boi website...in your own account if not elsewhere.  

[Presnock]

11 minutes ago, mokwit said:

At a certain level of assets it seems foreigners cease to be a threat to"national security" such that they have to report their address every 90 days. It is really about keeping us in our place.

 

12 minutes ago, mokwit said:

At a certain level of assets it seems foreigners cease to be a threat to"national security" such that they have to report their address every 90 days. It is really about keeping us in our place.

totally agree especially that which I hate is the TM 30 which is the owner's responsibility to report signing in but which the expat themselves are the one's fined if the owner doesn't feel like doing it or won't provide ID card copy and blue book for the house/condo/apartment/hotel...Why not just re-instate the tm28 and let the expat report without all the other necessary extra person's id etc?

[JimGant]

Did my one-year report in Chiang Mai, using the Star Visa agent. Asked them if I could have done this myself, using the 90-day report drive-thru window. They said, probably not, that I'd have to go inside and find someone who knew what a TM95 was. Anyway, nice to know the report can be done at CM Imm.

 

Here's my receipt. Note they used the machine that spits out 90-day report receipts -- and my receipt is duly noted as a 90-day report receipt. But, the important annotation is: Next report is due in one year, not 90 days. So, all done for this year -- and didn't need to go to Bangkok, or hire an agent to go to Bangkok.

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

8 hours ago, JackGats said:

Is anybody here suggesting remitted income might be tax-free for LTR holders while unremitted income might be taxable? This would be the World upside down. This would mean you'd need to have your pension transferred direct to your Thai bank account for it to be tax-free.

 

Not, read RD 743 and associated implementation papers  carefully, some even believe it just "grandfathers" the cancelled "not remitted in the year of earning" exemption, so I believe it could end up that way.

 

And it would make sense from the Thai (Finance) point of view; if the average LTR retiree makes 100k USD this could be, for every 1000 visas, 100 Million USD (35 Billion THB)  brought into the country every year. 

 

Ok, it maybe wishful thinking on my part, and as someone pointed out TIT and thing never make sense, but on the other hand I have found BOI to be quite impressive.

 

An other thing gives me that nagging feeling this could be the case is that, last September, when people started querying BOI about remittance tax there answer was "remitted income not taxed". And we now for sure that global IT was already considered at that stage, the first article on the September changes here was mentioning it. 

 

And last, wouldn't that be exactly BOI's mission? Otherwise why would they deal with retirement visa?