LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Presnock]

On 6/21/2024 at 11:31 AM, JimGant said:

Several months ago I asked BoI about mail-in 365 day reports. They weren't too keen on it, but advised to look at the SMART site and use the address given there. Well, yesterday I brought up that SMART site to get the address -- and it had  disappeared. So, I asked BoI about it, and about reporting by mail. Here's their answer:

 

So, no more mail-in options for 365 day reporting, for both LTR and SMART visa holders. I would imagine Immigration just didn't want to deal with mail call.

 

Mail-in was my backup plan. Plan A was using the LTR agent here in Chiang Mai -- Star Visa. So, today I took my filled in TM95 and -- as they said was absolutely required -- my TM30. Imagine my surprise when they said something like, "You're our first TM95 customer; we're not too sure if Immigration has total grasp on this; we'll keep you advised" Gulp.

 

Now, maybe I'll have to go to Bangkok -- or hire a mule to go for me. Probably easier just to fly out and back across the border.

I have an LTR and never heard or read anything about a mail in 365 -day report.  All I have seen is an agent, including one's wife or whatever could take the form 95 to the BOI for that notification which is to provide them with one's current address or the bit about leaving Thailand during the one-year period and upon re-entry the 365 days begin once more.

 

On 6/23/2024 at 12:47 PM, Pib said:

 

Where did you get that TM95 weblink from?   Maybe just made it up?

 

I can replace the the tm95 portion of the weblink with most anything like tm0, tm999, etc., and still get above system maintenance message vs a no such weblink type message.

I believe you should be able to find the tm95 on the boi website...in your own account if not elsewhere.  

[Presnock]

11 minutes ago, mokwit said:

At a certain level of assets it seems foreigners cease to be a threat to"national security" such that they have to report their address every 90 days. It is really about keeping us in our place.

 

12 minutes ago, mokwit said:

At a certain level of assets it seems foreigners cease to be a threat to"national security" such that they have to report their address every 90 days. It is really about keeping us in our place.

totally agree especially that which I hate is the TM 30 which is the owner's responsibility to report signing in but which the expat themselves are the one's fined if the owner doesn't feel like doing it or won't provide ID card copy and blue book for the house/condo/apartment/hotel...Why not just re-instate the tm28 and let the expat report without all the other necessary extra person's id etc?

[JimGant]

Did my one-year report in Chiang Mai, using the Star Visa agent. Asked them if I could have done this myself, using the 90-day report drive-thru window. They said, probably not, that I'd have to go inside and find someone who knew what a TM95 was. Anyway, nice to know the report can be done at CM Imm.

 

Here's my receipt. Note they used the machine that spits out 90-day report receipts -- and my receipt is duly noted as a 90-day report receipt. But, the important annotation is: Next report is due in one year, not 90 days. So, all done for this year -- and didn't need to go to Bangkok, or hire an agent to go to Bangkok.

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

8 hours ago, JackGats said:

Is anybody here suggesting remitted income might be tax-free for LTR holders while unremitted income might be taxable? This would be the World upside down. This would mean you'd need to have your pension transferred direct to your Thai bank account for it to be tax-free.

 

Not, read RD 743 and associated implementation papers  carefully, some even believe it just "grandfathers" the cancelled "not remitted in the year of earning" exemption, so I believe it could end up that way.

 

And it would make sense from the Thai (Finance) point of view; if the average LTR retiree makes 100k USD this could be, for every 1000 visas, 100 Million USD (35 Billion THB)  brought into the country every year. 

 

Ok, it maybe wishful thinking on my part, and as someone pointed out TIT and thing never make sense, but on the other hand I have found BOI to be quite impressive.

 

An other thing gives me that nagging feeling this could be the case is that, last September, when people started querying BOI about remittance tax there answer was "remitted income not taxed". And we now for sure that global IT was already considered at that stage, the first article on the September changes here was mentioning it. 

 

And last, wouldn't that be exactly BOI's mission? Otherwise why would they deal with retirement visa? 

Edited Saturday at 04:06 AM by Ben Zioner

[Ben Zioner]

8 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Did my one-year report in Chiang Mai, using the Star Visa agent. Asked them if I could have done this myself, using the 90-day report drive-thru window. They said, probably not, that I'd have to go inside and find someone who knew what a TM95 was. Anyway, nice to know the report can be done at CM Imm.

 

Here's my receipt. Note they used the machine that spits out 90-day report receipts -- and my receipt is duly noted as a 90-day report receipt. But, the important annotation is: Next report is due in one year, not 90 days. So, all done for this year -- and didn't need to go to Bangkok, or hire an agent to go to Bangkok.

 

 

 

Thanks we should keep this example to show to our local cops...

[Pib]

@JimGant

   That's good news you were able to do your 1 year address report at your local immigration office vs needing to go to BOI Chamchuri Sq Immigration Office in Bangkok.   Regarding whether a LTR person can do the 1 year address report online using the 90 day address online reporting system, I was told by BOI in some email exchanges AND me talking face-to-face to two Immigration Officer at BOI Immigration Chamchuri Square that an LTR visa holder can "not" use the online 90 day reporting system to accomplish their 1 year address report.  And where the 90 days online reporting system mentions/implies BOI related visas address reporting can be done online (see partial snapshot below from the 90 day online system)  that refers to those types of BOI visas that require address reporting every 90 days....does not apply to 1 year address reporting visas like LTR or SMART visas.   But hey who really knows until someone tries it regardless of what BOI/immigration says.

 

 

 

 

Partial Snapshot from 90 day address reporting system.  And the circled part has shown in the online system even before the LTR visa became available in Sep 2022.

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 04:18 AM by Pib

[stat]

16 hours ago, JackGats said:

Is anybody here suggesting remitted income might be tax-free for LTR holders while unremitted income might be taxable? This would be the World upside down. This would mean you'd need to have your pension transferred direct to your Thai bank account for it to be tax-free.

I am suggesting that there is a real possibility of that happening i.e. unremitted income will be taxable and remitted income will be taxfree. RD states explicitly "(only) remitted income is tax free". Remember one of BOI goals is to strenghten the thai economy and so they could be quite happy of forcing you to send money to Thailand.

 

Again it would be very simple to state that the LTR visa will be providing tax shelter for all worldwide income, no matter what. BTW the same happens when a foreign company builds a power plant in the other country. The receiving state confirms that no additional taxes or levies will be implemented, otherwise no investment would take place. Germany just lost one of the cases versus a foreign power plant operator, because Germany changed the rules.

 

I am simply amazed that a lot of people seem OK with the way they are treated and are not even posing a simple question to BOI about their potential tax bill. If BOI answers "we do not know, anything could happen" then at least everyone knows what maybe to expect.

 

I will not apply for an LTR if the tax issue is not solved, as for me taxes are paramount in my living location. I fully understand that for other people taxes are just a side issue so each to their own.

 

Have a good day everyone!

[JohnnyBD]

39 minutes ago, stat said:

I will not apply for an LTR if the tax issue is not solved, as for me taxes are paramount in my living location. I fully understand that for other people taxes are just a side issue so each to their own.

I am waiting approval of my LTR-WP visa and I'm not concerned at all about what may happen in the future if Thailand taxed residents based on worldwide income. Why, because, 50k for a visa is small change to begin with, and I will just less than 180 days in country if they taxed residents on worldwide income. Even though I'm pension rich, like someone said earlier, I am also investment income rich too, so you are not an outlier as much as you think. A worldwide income tax would also hit me very hard if I was a tax resident. Bur, I'm not one to panic. I will deal with whatever comes. Have a good day too.

Edited Saturday at 12:47 PM by JohnnyBD

[JimGant]

22 minutes ago, stat said:

I am suggesting that there is a real possibility of that happening i.e. unremitted income will be taxable and remitted income will be taxfree.

That makes no sense. If the worldwide taxation scenario is implemented, then the "remitted income" scenario is replaced, and goes away. There won't be any parallel taxation schemes. And if the 'powers that be' wanted LTR visa holders to have a special tax break, then there will have to be some rewording of the Royal Decree to accomodate such a tax break. Meanwhile, BoI is as clueless as the rest of us.

[JackGats]

1 hour ago, stat said:

.....

 

I will not apply for an LTR if the tax issue is not solved, as for me taxes are paramount in my living location. I fully understand that for other people taxes are just a side issue so each to their own.

 

Have a good day everyone!

What if the principle of acquired rights prevail? Existing LTRs tax-free, future LTRs taxable. This is not 100% unlikely. If I were you I'd get an LTR asap. It's a gamble worth 50k baht for sure.

 

[JohnnyBD]

36 minutes ago, JackGats said:

What if the principle of acquired rights prevail? Existing LTRs tax-free, future LTRs taxable. This is not 100% unlikely. If I were you I'd get an LTR asap. It's a gamble worth 50k baht for sure.

 

You may be right. There's a real possibility that all LTR-WP visa holders may be grandfathered in if a worldwide tax law is passed, especially since BOI advertised and promoted them as being tax exempt.

[K2938]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

What if the principle of acquired rights prevail? Existing LTRs tax-free, future LTRs taxable. This is not 100% unlikely. If I were you I'd get an LTR asap. It's a gamble worth 50k baht for sure.

While a grandfathering is of course not impossible to exclude, I would see this as highly unlikely.  We will see.  But you are right, for 50k THB it might well be worth it if one already has everything prepared and is not concerned about disclosing his or her financial data.

Edited Saturday at 03:50 PM by K2938

[stat]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I am waiting approval of my LTR-WP visa and I'm not concerned at all about what may happen in the future if Thailand taxed residents based on worldwide income. Why, because, 50k for a visa is small change to begin with, and I will just less than 180 days in country if they taxed residents on worldwide income. Even though I'm pension rich, like someone said earlier, I am also investment income rich too, so you are not an outlier as much as you think. A worldwide income tax would also hit me very hard if I was a tax resident. Bur, I'm not one to panic. I will deal with whatever comes. Have a good day too.

Fully agree if you want to stay in TH below 180 days per year! I would rather stay in one country long term as I am not a travel guy. So if ww income taxation in TH will get legislated I will likely stay full year in another country.

[stat]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

You may be right. There's a real possibility that all LTR-WP visa holders may be grandfathered in if a worldwide tax law is passed, especially since BOI advertised and promoted them as being tax exempt.

Valid point that the option is low priced with 50K, however I think there will be 99.9% no grand fathering as only remitted income is mentioned in the royal degree AFAIK.

[stat]

25 minutes ago, K2938 said:

While a grandfathering is of course not impossible to exclude, I would see this as highly unlikely.  We will see.  But you are right, for 50k THB it might well be worth it if one already has everything prepared and is not concerned about disclosing his or her financial data.

I very much like that you mention the financial disclosure aspect! I really hate to disclose part of my finances and will only provide the needed 80K not a penny more per account segregation. However in the end they will get the CRS report and in addition every concierge in TH will see the stamp WP...

[oldcpu]

13 hours ago, stat said:

I am simply amazed that a lot of people seem OK with the way they are treated and are not even posing a simple question to BOI about their potential tax bill.

 

I think almost everyone is watching this, but I think there are a few reasons why everyone is not overly excited about this:

 

(1) this is not yet law - so far this is what? one or two Thai officials stating this 'their' plan?  A lot can change between now and the implementation, and

 

(2) I suspect most of us on an LTR-WP visa, already paid foreign tax (in country of source) on our income (pensions) and we are covered by a Double Tax Agreement, so the impact of any such law, IF it comes to pass, could be non-existant, and

 

(3) even if such a possible change to taxation is implemented (AND even if LTR visa impacted), if one compares a LTR-WP to a non-immigrant Type-O/OA (for retirement extensions) the LTR-WP is still preferable over the Type-O/OA, even if taxed, and

 

(4) given the Royal Decree backing the LTR Visa, it simply could be the LTR Visa will not see any such hypothetical new tax implementation, IF (note the IF) such is implemented.

 

The above is not to say those of us on the LTR Visa are not watching this.  I think clearly we are watching such, but there are reasons why we are not overly excited about such a prospect.

[MPoll]

The YouTube channel Retired Working For You has a recent interview with a tax lawyer (Mahanakorn Partners Group) discussing the tax rules. He asks specifically about taxation of unremitted income (at time 4:30 min). The short answer is that it is something being considered by the revenue department but is undecided and of course any effect regarding the tax exemption status of LTR holders is also undecided. Also he doesn’t think it will happen but who knows?

 

Regarding the current tax rule they talk about LTR’s (at 17:00 min). Remote workers pay 17% on their income. He mentions Wealthy Global Citizens and retirees and while not explicit the meaning (to me) is that remitted income is not taxed.