LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[stat]

5 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Mr. Stat,

I want to apologize to you and everyone else for the way I responded to one of your posts on Tuesday. I know it's no excuse, but I was at a Thai house party with lots of people drinking, including myself, and I was wrong to respond the way I did. I know everyone is trying to interpret the rules and figure out how it affects their situation. I am fortunate in that I have pre-2024 monies I can remit for several years until things become clearer. Best of luck with your situation.

Apologies thankfully accepted!

 

I have also monies from before 2024 but the declaration and sorting out could be a nightmare or it could be very easy (I suspect the latter).

[stat]

3 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Maybe this document could shed a bit of light. 

 

Thai version

 

Could anyone confirm wether it was issued by RD?

Thanks for posting this document! The conditions mentioned seemed to be straightforward and easy (having an LTR visa that is still valid etc).

 

 

However it is also stated that you would have to file an income tax statement. I have no idea how to fill in a thai tax statement that encompasses several accounts with highly complex financial instruments such as futures, options, capital changes etc. Maybe this income is not reportable anyway as it will not be remitted to Thailand anyway.

 

Question to the guys with a WP LTR: Did you file an income tax statement? Did you file all zeros because of no or low remittance?

 

Thanks!

[Ben Zioner]

28 minutes ago, stat said:

Thanks for posting this document! The conditions mentioned seemed to be straightforward and easy (having an LTR visa that is still valid etc).

 

 

However it is also stated that you would have to file an income tax statement. I have no idea how to fill in a thai tax statement that encompasses several accounts with highly complex financial instruments such as futures, options, capital changes etc. Maybe this income is not reportable anyway as it will not be remitted to Thailand anyway.

 

Question to the guys with a WP LTR: Did you file an income tax statement? Did you file all zeros because of no or low remittance?

 

Thanks!

 

Honestly I am getting somewhat confused too. I'll manage as follows:

 

a) No remittance of earnings prior to Jan 1, 2024 for as long as possible. 

b) Hire a tax accountant sometimes after June 1, 2025.

 

I am fortunate as I earn only pensions. And one of them might be exempt under Section 42.12 of the Revenue code.

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I am fortunate in that I have pre-2024 monies I can remit for several years until things become clearer. 

When I wrote my last post "a) No remittance of earnings prior to Jan 1, 2024 for as long as possible. " I thought about adding "or until the global income tax comes into effect". Clarity could turn out to be expensive.

[stat]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

When I wrote my last post "a) No remittance of earnings prior to Jan 1, 2024 for as long as possible. " I thought about adding "or until the global income tax comes into effect". Clarity could turn out to be expensive.

If ww income tax would come into effect I would not live in TH anymore ever and I think a lot of "asset rich" LTR guys would do the same (in case LTR is not sheltering from PIT).

[Ben Zioner]

8 minutes ago, stat said:

If ww income tax would come into effect I would not live in TH anymore ever and I think a lot of "asset rich" LTR guys would do the same (in case LTR is not sheltering from PIT).

If that happens I'll consider splitting 6 months a year between Vietnam, Malaysia and possibly Indonesia. The remaining 6 months will be dedicated to watching my girls grow.

 

Won't save any money though, but I reach the stage where I just hate the place and can't see anything positive when I look around me. So I'll use the IT as a financial justification for getting fresh air elsewhere.

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Maybe this document could shed a bit of light. 

 

Thai version

 

Could anyone confirm wether it was issued by RD?

 

Thanks.  I have never seen that document before.

 

When reading that document, it notes foreigners who are eligible for tax reduction or exemption under Section 3 and Section 4 of the Royal Decree (no.743) must "File a personal income tax return (P.N.D.95) for a tax year in which income tax reduction or exemption is applied within a period of time prescribed by the law or an extended period of time".

 

So next I looked at the Royal decree to see which LTR visas are listed under Section-3 and Section-4 of that Royal decree.

 

Section-3 is "Highly Skilled Professional".

 

Section-4 is a foreigner whose income is withheld for income tax at the rate of 17% of assessable income under section-3.

 

Not mentioned is Section-5 in the Royal Decree which covers Wealthy Global Citizens, Wealthy Pensioners, and Work-from-Thailand professionals.

 

So as near as I can tell, that document does not clarify whether Wealthy Global Citizens, Wealthy Pensioners, and Work-from-Thailand professionals need to file a tax return.

 

What concerns me the most is the wording in the Royal Decree that notes all the LTR visa holders (ie those under Section-3, 4, and 5 in the Royal Decree) must meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.

 

And with that in mind, I note Thailand Revenue Department now wants foreigners who reside in Thailand for >180 days to file an income tax return (at least that is my current understanding).

 

Hence I am concerned (and I could be VERY VERY WRONG) that it may be necessary to file an income tax return if on an LTR-Wealthy Pensioner visa.

 

But I don't know. And I don't want to base my 'actions' on hope.  Its quite possible nothing is required (in terms of tax return), and the opposite is also possible (maybe a return will be wanted). This is Thailand and for me that often means things are not always what they seem.

 

I am also curious if any on an LTR Wealth Pensioner, Wealthy Citizen, or Work From Thailand Professional have filed a Thai tax return.

Edited July 11 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, stat said:

Question to the guys with a WP LTR: Did you file an income tax statement? Did you file all zeros because of no or low remittance?

 

Currently - even thou I am applying for a Thai-Tax-ID, I may not submit a tax return for tax-year 2023 (nor possibly tax-year-2024, 2025 ... ). This is something I am reviewing for myself and I am not yet certain.

 

My details:

 

I am no accountant, nor financial tax advisor. I am definitely not a tax expert.  I only try to look after myself in terms of my own obligations and risks.

 

I note the Thailand tax rules on foreign-sourced income changed per Por 161/2566 on 15-Sep-2023 which were subsequently officially recorded in the Royal Gazette on 6-Oct-2023, giving them the force of Thai law. Under the new regulations, any individual who spends 180 days or more in Thailand within a tax year, is considered a Thai tax resident.  

 

This interpretation requires Thai tax residents (which can include foreigners) to pay tax on foreign sourced income in the year in which it is brought into Thailand.

 

A further clarification came out on 20-Nov-2023 (P162/2023), that this is not effective for assessable income arrising before 1-Jan-2024.  

 

The VAST majority of my savings, are from long before 1-Jan-2024.  And while I do obtain pension income (enough to qualify me to be an LTR-WP visa holder), my pension income is much less than the money I have in my overseas bank accounts.

 

So obviously, I am trying to see how the Revenue Department tax interpretations may apply to me as a holder of a LTR-Wealthy Pensioner visa.  

 

I have not brought any money into Thailand in 2024 (I brought some in to Thailand in 2023), so at the most, from what I can read, I have no assessable income (except for small amounts of local interest in Thai banks/bonds) for the 2023 tax year. Hence even thou I have applied for a Tax ID number, I likely do not need to file a tax return this year, for tax-year 2023.

 

However next year (in early 2025), even if I bring money into Thailand via bank to bank transfer, if that money was in my foreign bank account from before 1-Jan-2024, it may not be considered assessable income because that money dates back to my foreign accounts going back more than a decade.  This is independent of me being an LTR-WP visa holder.

 

Hence that makes me think - at present, that I won't have enough assessable income to file a Thailand tax return, even if my assessable income was not tax exempt due to me holding an LTR-WP visa.  But I am an LTR-WP visa holder which I suspect makes me tax exempt and it even less likely for me to need to file a Thai tax return.

 

But again - I don't know for certain, and for myself, and my financial situation, I will continue to try to improve my own understanding.

 

Edited July 11 by oldcpu

[Ben Zioner]

21 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Currently - even thou I am applying for a Thai-Tax-ID, I may not submit a tax return for tax-year 2023 (nor possibly tax-year-2024, 2025 ... ). This is something I am reviewing for myself and I am not yet certain.

 

My details:

 

I am no accountant, nor financial tax advisor. I am definitely not a tax expert.  I only try to look after myself in terms of my own obligations and risks.

 

I note the Thailand tax rules on foreign-sourced income changed per Por 161/2566 on 15-Sep-2023 which were subsequently officially recorded in the Royal Gazette on 6-Oct-2023, giving them the force of Thai law. Under the new regulations, any individual who spends 180 days or more in Thailand within a tax year, is considered a Thai tax resident.  

 

This interpretation requires Thai tax residents (which can include foreigners) to pay tax on foreign sourced income in the year in which it is brought into Thailand.

 

A further clarification came out on 20-Nov-2023 (P162/2023), that this is not effective for assessable income arrising before 1-Jan-2024.  

 

The VAST majority of my savings, are from long before 1-Jan-2024.  And while I do obtain pension income (enough to qualify me to be an LTR-WP visa holder), my pension income is much less than the money I have in my overseas bank accounts.

 

So obviously, I am trying to see how the Revenue Department tax interpretations may apply to me as a holder of a LTR-Wealthy Pensioner visa.  

 

I have not brought any money into Thailand in 2024 (I brought some in to Thailand in 2023), so at the most, from what I can read, I have no assessable income (except for small amounts of local interest in Thai banks/bonds) for the 2023 tax year. Hence even thou I have applied for a Tax ID number, I likely do not need to file a tax return this year, for tax-year 2023.

 

However next year (in early 2025), even if I bring money into Thailand via bank to bank transfer, if that money was in my foreign bank account from before 1-Jan-2024, it may not be considered assessable income because that money dates back to my foreign accounts going back more than a decade.  This is independent of me being an LTR-WP visa holder.

 

Hence that makes me think - at present, that I won't have enough assessable income to file a Thailand tax return, even if my assessable income was not tax exempt due to me holding an LTR-WP visa.  But I am an LTR-WP visa holder which I suspect makes me tax exempt and it even less likely for me to need to file a Thai tax return.

 

But again - I don't know for certain, and for myself, and my financial situation, I will continue to try to improve my own understanding.

 

 

Try not to remit int 2024/2025 (Actually I have remitted 2023 on January 2, this year).

 

Get a CPA, possibly not before next year as they will most certainly have to go through their own learning curve.

[stat]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:59 AM, Ben Zioner said:

I have read the BOI answer on their Q&A on Facebook. What they say is that while the Tax exemption is applicable one has to contact RD to ascertain one's exact situation. Or in other words, they confirm exemption they won't can't rule on individual cases. Which I understand as there may be all sorts on income mixes: local/overseas, pension/non pension, interest/capital gains etc.. For those converting from another visa the first year in TDR may also be interesting x months taxable/ y months non taxable.

What BOI is basically saying is that the exemption they are posting on their website is worth nada as it is not up to BOI do decide anything regarding PIT. So either TRD is posting out a blanket statement regarding tax exemption or there is no guranteed tax exemption for LTR holders just a higher chance that maybe remitted income is tax exempt.

 

I hope I am wrong.

[JohnnyBD]

By Paul Ashburn, Partner HLB Thailand

April 25, 2024

Approximately a year before the Revenue Department announced the changes to foreign income taxation, Thailand launched a long-term resident visa (LTR visa) programme to enhance the country’s attractiveness as a regional hub for living and doing business for ‘high-potential’ foreigners.

One of the benefits granted to an LTR visa holder is an exemption from income tax on foreign income brought into Thailand, pursuant to Royal Decree No. 743 issued under the Revenue Code. The exemption applies to income from an employment or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, that has been brought into Thailand.

There are three categories of LTR visa holders eligible for the exemption:

• Wealthy global citizens;

• Wealthy pensioners; and

• Work-from-Thailand professionals.

Foreign nationals holding an LTR visa in one of these categories are not affected by the change of the Revenue Department’s interpretation of the law.

[K2938]

2 hours ago, stat said:

What BOI is basically saying is that the exemption they are posting on their website is worth nada as it is not up to BOI do decide anything regarding PIT. So either TRD is posting out a blanket statement regarding tax exemption or there is no guranteed tax exemption for LTR holders just a higher chance that maybe remitted income is tax exempt.

 

I hope I am wrong.

Well, what they do would be consistent with them potentially knowing something bad they do not want to say (yet) and therefore hedging themselves.  One would think that for them as a government entity it should be so easy to talk to the revenue service to get and publish the terms.  But for some reason they do not do this...

Edited July 15 by K2938

[stat]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

By Paul Ashburn, Partner HLB Thailand

April 25, 2024

Approximately a year before the Revenue Department announced the changes to foreign income taxation, Thailand launched a long-term resident visa (LTR visa) programme to enhance the country’s attractiveness as a regional hub for living and doing business for ‘high-potential’ foreigners.

One of the benefits granted to an LTR visa holder is an exemption from income tax on foreign income brought into Thailand, pursuant to Royal Decree No. 743 issued under the Revenue Code. The exemption applies to income from an employment or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, that has been brought into Thailand.

There are three categories of LTR visa holders eligible for the exemption:

• Wealthy global citizens;

• Wealthy pensioners; and

• Work-from-Thailand professionals.

Foreign nationals holding an LTR visa in one of these categories are not affected by the change of the Revenue Department’s interpretation of the law.

Thanks for the info! Apparently BOI themselfes now think differently about tax exemption. When reading the "exemption" the question come to my mind what about investment income? It is not mentioned at all in the RD.

 

Again I hope you are right and everything is exempt!

[Incorrigible1]

For what it is worth, today I went to One Stop to get a residence certificate (LTR proved to be valuable in getting expedited, courteous service).  After finishing I stopped by BOI and met with one of the representatives.  In answer to my question, he told me that any income earned outside of Thailand is exempt and that if I had no income generated in Thailand, I did not have to file a tax return 

[JohnnyBD]

10 minutes ago, Incorrigible1 said:

For what it is worth, today I went to One Stop to get a residence certificate (LTR proved to be valuable in getting expedited, courteous service).  After finishing I stopped by BOI and met with one of the representatives.  In answer to my question, he told me that any income earned outside of Thailand is exempt and that if I had no income generated in Thailand, I did not have to file a tax return 

Thanks for the post. I was told the same thing last week when I went to my LTR-WP visa issuance appointment. They also told me the 1-year reporting clock starts over again after I return from an overseas trip, so I will never need to do 1-year report.

[Incorrigible1]

1 minute ago, JohnnyBD said:

They also told me the 1-year reporting clock starts over again after I return from an overseas trip, so I will never need to do 1-year report.

That is also what I as told.  

[shdmn]

On 7/10/2024 at 4:47 AM, oldcpu said:

The "why" is a good question.

 

I note Canada has required a tax return from me for decades, even thou I am a non resident to Canada, and the withholding tax I pay for years on minimal ban interest exceeded the tax owed in a tax return. Canada didn't care. They wanted the tax return. If I didn't submit they would fine me. ... So IMHO it wouldn't surprise me for a second if counties such as Thailand adopt a similar approach. ... Now I hope the LTR visa holders who have next to zero Thai income won't have to file a Thai tax return,  .. but I won't let my "hope" inappropriately drive my assessment as to what may be needed.

Why is that?  As far as I know, if you are a non resident of Canada you do not need to file a tax return.  They just take 25% right off the top, but you have to apply to become a non-resident for tax purposes first.  Did you ever do that?

Edited July 15 by shdmn

[oldcpu]

57 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Why is that?  As far as I know, if you are a non resident of Canada you do not need to file a tax return.  They just take 25% right off the top,  ....

 

 

If you receive any income from Canada (such as interest in a Canadian bank account), no matter how small, they want an income tax return.

 

57 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Why is that?  As far as I know, if you are a non resident of Canada you do not need to file a tax return.  They just take 25% right off the top, but you have to apply to become a non-resident for tax purposes first.  Did you ever do that?

 

No. Anyone who gets ANY income from Canada, is supposed to file a tax return.  And in that tax return, one is required to state one's global income, and state the global income of one's spouse.

 

I received a letter in year 2001 from Revenue Canada, confirming I am not a tax resident.  That still does not exempt me from filing a Canadian tax return and paying tax on any Canadian income, regardless as to how small (unless it is a big ZERO).  ONLY if I had no Canadian income, could I then not have to file a Canadian tax return

 

That's just the way it is.

 

As long as the 'withholding tax' (from one's interest in Canada) is greater than what the tax would be if one filed a tax return - then if no income tax return was filed, then there is no fine for not filing a tax return.  

 

But if because one's global income drives one to a high tax bracket (which eventually became my case), such that one would owe more tax than the withhold tax rate ( ie tax on one's interest from assets still in Canada) then one runs into issues for not filing the tax return and for not paying the extra tax (due to being in a higher tax bracket from global income).  Note as a non-resident to Canada, one does not owe tax on the Global income outside of Canada - but the global income does drive one into a higher tax bracket.   I should also note that if one has not filed a tax return (because their Global income puts one in a high tax bracket), then  as a minimum one will pay punitive interest to Revenue Canada (at a very high interest rate) and worst case one will also receive a fine that has to be paid (with interest accumulating on any unpaid fine amount year after year, until one finally settles their tax account).

 

That also is just the way it is.

 

How do I know this? I've been there. Done that. Paid the interest & fine.

 

Edited July 15 by oldcpu

[shdmn]

28 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

If you receive any income from Canada (such as interest in a Canadian bank account), no matter how small, they want an income tax return.

 

 

No. Anyone who gets ANY income from Canada, is supposed to file a tax return.  And in that tax return, one is required to state one's global income, and state the global income of one's spouse.

 

I received a letter in year 2001 from Revenue Canada, confirming I am not a tax resident.  That still does not exempt me from filing a Canadian tax return and paying tax on any Canadian income, regardless as to how small (unless it is a big ZERO).  ONLY if I had no Canadian income, could I then not have to file a Canadian tax return

 

That's just the way it is.

 

As long as the 'withholding tax' (from one's interest in Canada) is greater than what the tax would be if one filed a tax return - then if no income tax return was filed, then there is no fine for not filing a tax return.  

 

But if because one's global income drives one to a high tax bracket (which eventually became my case), such that one would owe more tax than the withhold tax rate ( ie tax on one's interest from assets still in Canada) then one runs into issues for not filing the tax return and for not paying the extra tax (due to being in a higher tax bracket from global income).  Note as a non-resident to Canada, one does not owe tax on the Global income outside of Canada - but the global income does drive one into a higher tax bracket.   I should also note that if one has not filed a tax return (because their Global income puts one in a high tax bracket), then  as a minimum one will pay punitive interest to Revenue Canada (at a very high interest rate) and worst case one will also receive a fine that has to be paid (with interest accumulating on any unpaid fine amount year after year, until one finally settles their tax account).

 

That also is just the way it is.

 

How do I know this? I've been there. Done that. Paid the interest & fine.

 

That sounds like something unique to your situation that makes you not qualify for being a non-resident for tax purposes even though you don't live there.  Like still having significant residential ties, rental income, or certain kinds of pensions.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/non-residents-canada.html

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/electing-under-section-217.html

 

Quote

If you are a non-resident of Canada, Canadian payers must withhold non-resident tax on certain types of Canadian-source income that they pay or credit to you. The tax withheld is usually your final tax obligation to Canada on this income. You do not have to file a Canadian Income Tax and Benefit Return to report it; however, you can choose to file a Canadian return to report certain types of Canadian-source income by “electing under section 217 of the Income Tax Act.” By making a section 217 election, you may pay tax on this income using a different method and may receive a refund of all or part of the non-resident tax withheld.

 

Edited July 15 by shdmn

[oldcpu]

15 minutes ago, shdmn said:

If you are still required to file a tax return then you are NOT considered a non-resident for tax purposes.  If you don't live there then it would be for some other reason, such as still having "significant residential ties", having Canadian rental income, or certain Canadian pension income.  Most people who are non-residents, with no significant residential ties, do not need to file a tax return.  The other possibility is that you chose to report certain types of income by electing to under section 217 of the income tax act.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/non-residents-canada.html

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/electing-under-section-217.html

 

 

 

You ARE required, as a non-resident to Canada, to file a tax return on any Canadian sourced income (such as interest from a Canadian bank account one might still have)  if you are in a higher income tax bracket (due to your global income outside Canada) which results in the withholding tax being insufficient.

 

And no, I did NOT choose to report under section-217.

 

If one does not, as I noted, one will be fined and pay interest on the tax due.

 

Every year !!! (since Revenue Canada caught up with me)  I receive (very late given how slow postal mail is between Thailand and Canada) a package with the Canadian paper income tax return to be filled in.

 

That just is the way it is.  One needs to be VERY careful in reading Canadian tax documents as there are all sorts of almost hidden aspects ...  It can be very complex.

 

Again ... why do I know? Because as an expat (with a letter from Revenue Canada saying I was not a tax-resident)  I did not file a Canadian tax return for years. When I started receiving my Canadian OAS (Old Age Security) - which I get for working in Canada for 1/4 century before becoming a non-tax resident)  I filed a tax return, and Revenue Canada then 'hit' me with a bill for unpaid "DELTA" amounts (above the withholding tax they already deducted) from past taxation years when I did not file a tax return.  Further, they also DEMANDED I file a tax return for those past years. 

 

Be very careful when you read those documents. There is more to this than 'just meets the eye'.

 

Edited July 15 by oldcpu

[shdmn]

19 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

You ARE required, as a non-resident to Canada, to file a tax return on any Canadian sourced income (such as interest from a Canadian bank account one might still have)  if you are in a higher income tax bracket (due to your global income outside Canada) which results in the withholding tax being insufficient.

 

And no, I did NOT choose to report under section-217.

 

If one does not, as I noted, one will be fined and pay interest on the tax due.

 

Every year !!! I receive (very late given how slow postal mail is between Thailand and Canada) a package with the Canadian paper income tax return to be filled in.

 

That just is the way it is.  One needs to be VERY careful in reading Canadian tax documents as there are all sorts of almost hidden aspects ...  It can be very complex.

 

Again ... why do I know? Because I did not file a Canadian tax return for years. When I started receiving my Canadian OAS (Old Age Security) - which I get for working in Canada for 1/2 century before becoming a non-tax resident)  I filed a tax return, and Revenue Canada then 'hit' me with a bill for unpaid "DELTA" amounts (above the withholding tax they already deducted) from past taxation years when I did not file a tax return.  Further, they also DEMANDED I file a tax return for those past years. 

 

Be very careful when you read those documents. There is more to this than 'just meets the eye'.

 

I don't know what your particular situation is, and there are definitely reasons you might still need to file a return, but generally speaking it's a flat 25% taken off the top with no tax return required once you apply and are accepted as being a non-resident for tax purposes.  That includes interest from banks.

 

Here is another link and quote so feel free to go argue with Revenue Canada about it.

 

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/nrtc/beta/ng/entry

Quote

Interest payments that a payer resident in Canada makes to a non-resident recipient with whom the payer deals at non arm's length will be taxed at the statutory Part XIII tax rate of 25% or the reduced rate of Part XIII tax eligible under a tax convention between Canada and the beneficial owner's country of residence, where applicable.

 

Edited July 15 by shdmn

[stat]

2 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

That is also what I as told.  

Thx for asking the question! Did one of you guys ask why on the internet they are not stating the same and are instead pointing to the TRD?

[JackGats]

On 7/11/2024 at 10:32 AM, Ben Zioner said:

Maybe this document could shed a bit of light. 

 

Thai version

 

Could anyone confirm wether it was issued by RD?

Note that this predates the recent changes, quote: "Clause 4 This Notification shall come into force from 1st September B.E. 2565 (2022) onwards."

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, JackGats said:

Note that this predates the recent changes, quote: "Clause 4 This Notification shall come into force from 1st September B.E. 2565 (2022) onwards."

Yes, and there haven't been any amendments to it since.

 

We have RD 743 stating:

 

"Section 6 A foreigner who is entitled to benefits under Section 3, Section 4, and Section 5 must meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department.

 

"Section 7 In the case that a foreigner has applied tax reduction or exemption under this Royal Decree, and later does not comply with rules prescribed in Section 3, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 in any tax year, benefits will be suspended in that tax year"

 

and TDR's contribution in Notification 427 of DR TRD :

 

"Clause 2 A foreigner categorised as High-Skilled Professional, Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is eligible for income tax reduction or exemption under Section 3, Section 4, or Section 5 of the Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code governing reduction of tax rates and exemption of taxes (No. 743) B.E. 2565 (2022), as the case may be, must meet the following qualifications: (1) Be granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law, as the case may be; (2) Meets qualifications for and complies with rules and conditions on Long-Term Resident Visa as prescribed by the Office of the Board of Investment."

 

Anything else at this stage is mostly speculation.

 

I someone sent me this quote BOI:

 

"Greeting from LTR Visa Unit.

 

The LTR Visa tax exemption benefit will continue to be applied indefinitely. Please do not trust rumors or outside news sources such as Bangkok Post.

 

If you have no income within Thailand, you don't need to file a tax report annually with the Thai Revenue Department, even if staying over 180 days."

 

So, IMHO the only thing one can do at this stage is this get clarifications of the "rules" to follow to benefit from the exemption we are still entitled to. I certainly won't do that before October/November this year. And stop asking BOI...

 

Also IMHO section 7 of RD 743 means that if you drop lose your 80k pension or health insurance in mid year, your will be taxed for the whole year. The "rules" may also indicate whether a tax return is needed of not.

[JohnnyBD]

13 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

For what it is worth, today I went to One Stop to get a residence certificate (LTR proved to be valuable in getting expedited, courteous service).  After finishing I stopped by BOI and met with one of the representatives.  In answer to my question, he told me that any income earned outside of Thailand is exempt and that if I had no income generated in Thailand, I did not have to file a tax return 

I do not understand why some, who do not have LTR visas, keep posting that LTR visa holders can lose their tax exempt status for no reason at all. I was at BOI just last week, and was told as long as I continue to meet the requirements; insurance, $100k in bank, $80k pension income, etc., then all the monies I remit from overseas, will be tax exempt. The tax exempt benefits are posted on BOI's website for all to see, (Royal Decree 743 and Director-General's Notification on Tax No. 427). Take care.

Edited July 16 by JohnnyBD

[stat]

10 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

---

 

Also IMHO section 7 of RD 743 means that if you drop lose your 80k pension or health insurance in mid year, your will be taxed for the whole year. The "rules" may also indicate whether a tax return is needed of not.

IMHO BOI is not checking mid year if you still have 80K pension. AFAIK they will check after 5 years again and then maybe only the last year. Do not know about Health insurance but I would assume the same.

 

I understand that the folks who already have the LTR do not want to hear any doubts about the tax exemption status but there also the folks like me who are thinking about getting an LTR. BTW even if you have an LTR you should be very interested in any developments for example if you have capital income and can "time" your income as in the case of capital gains.

 

It strikes me as odd that some people get the feedback from individual BOI staff that all is swell but the "official" FB posts and the written responses are somehow elusive. Nevertheless the BOI page is very sure about the tax exempt status.

 

 

Edited July 16 by stat

[oldcpu]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:20 PM, oldcpu said:

 

Currently - even thou I am applying for a Thai-Tax-ID, I may not submit a tax return for tax-year 2023 (nor possibly tax-year-2024, 2025 ... ). This is something I am reviewing for myself and I am not yet certain.

...

But again - I don't know for certain, and for myself, and my financial situation, I will continue to try to improve my own understanding.

 

 

My Thai wife submitted the online application for a Thai Tax-ID for myself (a foreigner in Thailand on an LTR-WP visa) , where that included uploading copies of my pink-ID and Yellow Book. She gave her phone # as the contact number.

 

Today she received a phone call from the Thai tax department, advising her, given I had no income in Thailand, that I did not have to obtain a Thai tax ID, even though I am in Thailand for >180 days.    My wife asked that some sort of official document be sent to her (and me) to record that. 

 

The person on the phone also purportedly told her that while a pink-ID card's number can be a foreigner's tax ID, it needs to be activated by Revenue Thailand before it becomes active as a Thai Tax ID number.

 

My wife advised the official on the phone that I obtain interest from Thai banks (which have a withholding tax amount) and also interest from a Thai bond (which also has a with holding tax amount).  My wife asked at what point do I have to obtain a Thai Tax ID if that interest exceeds some TBD financial level.

 

The official advised my wife she would call her back later after researching answer for the two questions (ie (1) my wife asking for an official record that I don't have to ask for a Tax ID, and (2) when do I have to ask for a Tax ID due to Thai interest reaching some TBD amount of money).

 

Frankly - I don't know if this was good or bad news - I was kind of left with a fuzzy feeling that the official may not be up to date with the latest Thai tax laws (but they should be) ... so I am most curious as to what the answer will be when my wife is phoned back (which IMHO could be a week or more).

 

Edited July 16 by oldcpu

[stat]

7 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I do not understand why some, who do not have LTR visas, keep posting that LTR visa holders can lose their tax exempt status for no reason at all. I was at BOI just last week, and was told as long as I continue to meet the requirements; insurance, $100k in bank, $80k pension income, etc., then all the monies I remit from overseas, will be tax exempt. The tax exempt benefits are posted on BOI's website for all to see, (Royal Decree 743 and Director-General's Notification on Tax No. 427). Take care.

Because "those people" questioning the tax exempt staus think about getting an LTR 😉. I will only get an LTR if the tax exemption is valid and ideally confirmed by TRD (not much hope though this will happen).

 

Did you kindly ask BOI explicitly if TRD has confirmed their view and or why their offical FB page states all is dependant on TRD? I know loss of face issue etc but this is business we are talking about serious money.

 

Thanks!

[JimGant]

52 minutes ago, stat said:

I will only get an LTR if the tax exemption is valid and ideally confirmed by TRD (not much hope though this will happen).

Then, don't get one. Move on with your life, and quit whining on this thread.

 

Not exactly sure of why such a big decision -- either a LTR visa, or you move out of Thailand?  Obviously, if you plan to stay in Thailand, and you qualify for the LTR visa -- get one. The probability is huge that the LTR tax exemption will survive any scenario. But, if not -- and you had planned to live in Thailand indefinitely -- you're then just another peon, with a Non Imm O visa. Is that not survivable? Anyway, maybe you should take a course in probability analysis..

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, stat said:

IMHO BOI is not checking mid year if you still have 80K pension. AFAIK they will check after 5 years again and then maybe only the last year. Do not know about Health insurance but I would assume the same.

Not yet but their are likely to request proof of conformity at the 5 years renewal. And recalc your tax for every year you have failed to conform. Also they put TRD into the picture who is developing all the tools to keep people in check.

 

1 hour ago, stat said:

I understand that the folks who already have the LTR do not want to hear any doubts about the tax exemption status but there also the folks like me who are thinking about getting an LTR.

There is no doubt that we have tax exemption at this point in time and in all likelihood for the rest of 2024. What will happen next is everyone's guess. Mine would be a 60% chance that the exemption stays, because we are not dealing with idiots here, BOI and TRD know that too much tax kills revenue, even Reagan knew that. And even more so with highly mobile people on yearly incomes of 100000 Euros or more, who will simply vote with their feet and look from greener pastures 186 days a year.

 

As far as you are concerned, it is difficult to understand that you express such anxiety, if you really want to retire to Thailand build your best case, solely based on one pension if you can and move ahead. The visa costs only 50000 Baht. But, between you and me, I wouldn't move here right now, I'd enjoy the mountains of Bavaria, Strudel, Weisswurzt and German P4P, which is quite good, I hope you are aware of that.

Edited July 16 by Ben Zioner