LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[hwas]

Received this from BOI today, tax exempt only for prior year:

Greetings from the LTR Visa Unit.

 

We want to clarify that the tax exemption for overseas income will commence from the month you receive the LTR Visa onward, which typically falls within the next tax year. 

 

Any income earned in the period prior to holding the LTR Visa will not be considered for tax exemption.

 

 

 

[K2938]

26 minutes ago, hwas said:

Received this from BOI today, tax exempt only for prior year:

Greetings from the LTR Visa Unit.

 

We want to clarify that the tax exemption for overseas income will commence from the month you receive the LTR Visa onward, which typically falls within the next tax year. 

 

Any income earned in the period prior to holding the LTR Visa will not be considered for tax exemption.

Thank you for posting this.  So if I read this correctly, this would unfortunately mean that the tax exemption under the LTR visa - if even this is maintained - is really of the minimal possible amount as it ONLY covers income earned while holding the LTR visa.  So if you now get a LTR visa and then transfer let's say 250k USD from your foreign savings to Thailand to buy some real estate or fund your general living expenses, then this will NOT be exempted as these 250k USD are NOT income only received AFTER holding a LTR visa.

[Pib]

12 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Thank you for posting this.  So if I read this correctly, this would unfortunately mean that the tax exemption under the LTR visa - if even this is maintained - is really of the minimal possible amount as it ONLY covers income earned while holding the LTR visa.  So if you now get a LTR visa and then transfer let's say 250k USD from your foreign savings to Thailand to buy some real estate or fund your general living expenses, then this will NOT be exempted as these 250k USD are NOT income only received AFTER holding a LTR visa.

Money you simply transfer is not taxable now or possibly under this new tax rule beginning 1 Jan 2024..it's interest and dividends you earn from assets like say 5% interest on a 250K savings acct.

[K2938]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

Money you simply transfer is not taxable now or possibly under this new tax rule beginning 1 Jan 2024..it's interest and dividends you earn from assets like say 5% interest on a 250K savings acct.

I wish you were right, but that is unfortunately not at all clear at the moment as the 250k savings are surely income of some prior year.  And if by comparison you look at other countries taxing remitted funds, then in some of them this would be a taxable event, in some it would not.  So how things will eventually be construed in Thailand nobody unfortunately knows at the moment.  The fact that the LTR exemption does not appear to cover this is therefore a real potential problem.

Edited September 27, 2023 by K2938

[Pib]

However this new rule works out or possibly just disappears as resistance grows against it the Thai revenue dept is not going to be looking back in time like 2, 3, 5 years, etc.  If the new rule does go into affect 1 Jan 2024 then they would only be looking from that date forward...and as said earlier on income, interest, dividends earned since 1 Jan 2024 (not before that) if not already shielded by a DTA.

[CobyW]

WFTP related ???? 

From a previous email response from BOI, they said that they don't care where my funds are paid from as long as I have an active contract with the company that meets the USD 150m criteria. 

 

My Company has advised that they are happy to pay me as a contractor via a business in Thailand which I have confirmed with my tax agent will also work for my goals.

 

My question to this group is:

"I only want to setup the business in Thailand in order to receive funds that will allow me to get the LTR (WFTP) Visa. When I apply for an LTD company in Thailand, does anyone know if a visa MUST be linked to this application? If so, can an LTR Visa be linked?"

Currently, everything I have seen only talks about the non-immigration visa which is fine as a backup but I would much prefer the LTR for multiple reasons. I assume that it is just because legal companies are not specifically advertising this Visa type yet but hoping someone in this group may have done something similar or converted from a non-immigration business visa to an LTR and can point me in the right direction.

Thanks

[LivinLOS]

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

However this new rule works out or possibly just disappears as resistance grows against it the Thai revenue dept is not going to be looking back in time like 2, 3, 5 years, etc.  If the new rule does go into affect 1 Jan 2024 then they would only be looking from that date forward...and as said earlier on income, interest, dividends earned since 1 Jan 2024 (not before that) if not already shielded by a DTA.

Disagree as the entire issue here is PAST earnings being claimed as savings.. If it doesnt look backwards the whole thing is useless. 

[K2938]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

If the new rule does go into affect 1 Jan 2024 then they would only be looking from that date forward...and as said earlier on income, interest, dividends earned since 1 Jan 2024 (not before that) if not already shielded by a DTA.

Unfortunately my suspicion mentioned above with the caveat "if I read this correctly" now also appears to have been confirmed by the BOI as just posted by @hwas on the main tax change thread in this forum.  So I am just cross-linking this in case there are people not following both threads:

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by K2938

[Pib]

Impossible to enforce.  So, what is Thailand going to do?   Say a person transfers over 25K USD from a savings acct a person has had for many years accumulating income say from income sources exempt under DTA such as U.S. govt Social Security/military retirement pension payments....the revenue dept is not going attempt to tax that.  What are they going to do?...start immediately deducting a tax from any foriegn SWIFT/Wise type transfer arriving a Thai bank acct?...I don't think so.

[Ben Zioner]

6 hours ago, K2938 said:

Thank you for posting this.  So if I read this correctly, this would unfortunately mean that the tax exemption under the LTR visa - if even this is maintained - is really of the minimal possible amount as it ONLY covers income earned while holding the LTR visa.  So if you now get a LTR visa and then transfer let's say 250k USD from your foreign savings to Thailand to buy some real estate or fund your general living expenses, then this will NOT be exempted as these 250k USD are NOT income only received AFTER holding a LTR visa.

Odd, as if they wanted to stop LTR visa holders from investing in Thailand.

[RafPinto]

10 minutes ago, Pib said:

Impossible to enforce.  So, what is Thailand going to do?   Say a person transfers over 25K USD from a savings acct a person has had for many years accumulating income say from income sources exempt under DTA such as U.S. govt Social Security/military retirement pension payments....the revenue dept is not going attempt to tax that.  What are they going to do?...start immediately deducting a tax from any foriegn SWIFT/Wise type transfer arriving a Thai bank acct?...I don't think so.

There won't be anymore any transfer. Everything paid by foreign debit/credit card or withdraw cash.

Living on 12000 baht a month.

[RafPinto]

https://www.imi.gov.my/index.php/en/main-services/malaysia-my-second-home-mmh2-en/

 

Buy and own a house.

Bring in your car.

 

Sounds good to me.

[Pib]

11 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

There won't be anymore any transfer. Everything paid by foreign debit/credit card or withdraw cash.

Living on 12000 baht a month.

Oh no...the "sky is falling" crowd will probably say the govt will just direct all Thai banks to apply say a 15% fee to all "non-Thai" debt/credit card transactions as that foreigner might be trying to use income that might be taxable.  The millions of tourists visiting Thailand every year and using credit/debit cards to pay bills/get cash during that visit will love that--and never visit Thailand again.  

 

[CRUNCHER]

Sorry if this question has been asked and answered, but is there any recommendation for health insurance for a 76 year old?

[Ben Zioner]

8 hours ago, CRUNCHER said:

Sorry if this question has been asked and answered, but is there any recommendation for health insurance for a 76 year old?

If it is for LTR you should look for  some government sponsored coverage in your home country. I you go try yo get a private insurance you'll get fleeced,  especilly in Thailand.

[leedm]

Hi all,  I'm hoping I can get some advice regarding my circumstances.

 

My Thai wife and I currently living and working in the UK, planning to retire to LOS in 4 or 5 years.   In order to smooth the transition, I am looking at the LTR-WFT Visa as I think I meet the criteria.  This will enable us to move earlier and maintain an income until such time as I don't need to work anymore.

 

In regards to the LTR-WFT Visa criteria, I have a few doubts.

 

I work a very large Global Manufacturer that are listed on the NYSE.  net profit of over a billion  USD.

However, as I'm in the UK, my contract is with the UK LTD subsidiary, which has an annual turnover of 560MM GBP, gross profit of 80MM GBP and net profit of 8MM GBP

 

First question is,  will they consider the US companies turnover when determining the criteria.

Second question,  my company also has a subsidiary in Thailand, however, I don't do any work for them in my role, and neither will I do any work for them when working from Thailand,   would this cause any issues ?

Thirdly,  can anyone in a similar position to me advise if there are any other considerations or issues I need to be aware.

 

Lastly,  as I have a Thai wife,  would there be any other Visa option (marriage Visa perhaps ?)  that would allow me to continue working for my company from Thailand.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Pib]

My guess is BoI would focus on the subsidiary regarding company size, profit, etc., as I expect your employment contract shows the subsidiary as the company you are employed by.   You can contact/email BoI LTR folks with specifics  and they should be able to tell you whether they would consider the parent global company or their UK subsidiary as your employer.   BoI LTR is responding pretty fast to inquires now days....usually respond same business day or with in a few business days......before it could be weeks before they responded.

https://ltr.boi.go.th/#contact

 

Sure a Non-immigration marriage visa is possible....lots of people are on them....I use to be on one.  I switched from a Non OA Retirement visa/extension of stay in 2019 after being on one for a dozen years to avoid the Thai health insurance requirement that came into affect in 2019 for people on an OA Visa/extension.  A marriage visa/extension does not require health insurance.    And a marriage visa/extension has lower income requirements than a retirement visa/extension.

[leedm]

Thanks for that, I’ll send them a message and ask.

 

regarding the marriage Visa, do you know if that will allow me to work for my foreign company ?   I assume I’d need to apply for a work permit?   Any idea where I can find more information about that

 

thanks

[K2938]

3 hours ago, leedm said:

First question is,  will they consider the US companies turnover when determining the criteria.

Initially some people got away with arguing that the ultimate parent company turnover counts.  But the BOI then changed this and did not allow it any longer.  So unless the BOI has changed its practices again, that would unfortunately mean a no for you.

[leedm]

33 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Initially some people got away with arguing that the ultimate parent company turnover counts.  But the BOI then changed this and did not allow it any longer.  So unless the BOI has changed its practices again, that would unfortunately mean a no for you.

Thanks.  On the BOI website it says over 150MM USD in revenue, any idea what that actually means, is it annual turnover or gross or net profit or something else ?

[K2938]

1 minute ago, leedm said:

Thanks.  On the BOI website it says over 150MM USD in revenue, any idea what that actually means, is it annual turnover or gross or net profit or something else ?

Revenue = annual turnover

[leedm]

7 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Revenue = annual turnover

Ok so UK company annual turnover is 500MM, so should be ok then

 

thanks

[Middle Aged Grouch]

On 7/10/2022 at 10:17 AM, GroveHillWanderer said:

I would say there are enough details to say that's the total fee for 10 years. It's what's been annnounced and there's no hint of any additional fees being required.

 

What the main issue would be for most people, I suspect, are the relatively onerous financial requirements to qualify in the first place.

 

That's basically, whether working or not, having $80,000 a year in income; for "Wealthy Global Citizens," having in addition, a minimum of $1 million in assets and an investment in Thailand of $500,000; for retirees, having in addition to the income requirement, an investment of $250,000 in Thailand. 

 

If I'm being honest, I don't expect to see a whole bunch of people both qualifying and applying for this new LTR visa.

For the retirement visa the lucky ones making 80k a year in pension (mainly those from Europe and Switzerland etc) do not need to have any further investments.

 

The health care is top level in France, Switzerland and few other european countries for all it's residents no matter how much they earn. They are the quality retirees Thailand wants to woe with this scheme.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

On 9/27/2023 at 2:15 PM, Pib said:

Oh no...the "sky is falling" crowd will probably say the govt will just direct all Thai banks to apply say a 15% fee to all "non-Thai" debt/credit card transactions as that foreigner might be trying to use income that might be taxable.  The millions of tourists visiting Thailand every year and using credit/debit cards to pay bills/get cash during that visit will love that--and never visit Thailand again.  

 

The biggest cheats are the credit-debit card goons of the banks abroad,  who scam the naive customers who think credit cards are the solution. Cash ont the other hand is risky to carry, fully agree, but remains the best and cheapest option if you want to avoid those hateful commissions.  Not to menton the risks of getting your card skimmed in Thailand...

[Northwest87]

11 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

For the retirement visa the lucky ones making 80k a year in pension (mainly those from Europe and Switzerland etc) do not need to have any further investments.

 

The health care is top level in France, Switzerland and few other european countries for all it's residents no matter how much they earn. They are the quality retirees Thailand wants to woe with this scheme.

The 80K needs to be "passive income" but it doesn't necessarily have to be from pension(s). From the BOI:

1. Evidence of income tax payment or annual personal income tax return
2. Please provide the evidence of your regular passive income such as rental income, investment income, pension income, and etc. According to our criteria, wealthy pensioner applicants will count passive income only, not counted from the salary.

As for medical insurance,  even very comprehensive national health schemes do not always provide full coverage abroad; I believe France does, but I am not sure to what extent. Britain however certainly does not, if we take as guide the frequent repatriation funds solicitations in local expat forums for sick and injured Brits.

[Ben Zioner]

On 7/10/2022 at 3:17 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

"Wealthy Global Citizens," having in addition, a minimum of $1 million in assets and an investment in Thailand of $500,000; for retirees, having in addition to the income requirement, an investment of $250,000 in Thailand. 

Becoming hilarious, can imagine someone investing USD 500.000 in Thailand to  qualify for  a visa, and having to pay USD 150.000 as income tax because he didn't count to 180 before moving to his  new, so welcoming, "home".

[Misty]

16 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Becoming hilarious, can imagine someone investing USD 500.000 in Thailand to  qualify for  a visa, and having to pay USD 150.000 as income tax because he didn't count to 180 before moving to his  new, so welcoming, "home".

Agreed that that would be a nonstarter. It'll be interesting to see if this ruling holds whether there may be exemptions.

 

Still, if I understand correctly, the tax if only for tax residents who haven't already paid tax on the income to a country where there's a DTA.  So if you aren't a tax resident yet (for example, you don't yet have an LTR), then no tax.  Or if you have tax reporting records showing your $500k has already been taxed, then no tax.

[Ben Zioner]

19 minutes ago, Misty said:

So if you aren't a tax resident yet (for example, you don't yet have an LTR), then no tax. 

Yep, I'd get the visa in June and move in July, easy and nice way to save 150k. But then no one knows exactly what's going to happen. 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Becoming hilarious, can imagine someone investing USD 500.000 in Thailand to  qualify for  a visa, and having to pay USD 150.000 as income tax because he didn't count to 180 before moving to his  new, so welcoming, "home".

In Thailand never buy. Always rent. And even renting can end up as a nightmare with sudden costs that can surge. I knew a family who rented a pool villa in Hua Hin. They were charged for the rent, separate bill for electricity and another one for getting the house cleaned at their departure.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Middle Aged Grouch

[oldcpu]

16 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

In Thailand never buy. Always rent. And even renting can end up as a nightmare with sudden costs that can surge. I knew a family who rented a pool villa in Hua Hin. They were charged for the rent, separate bill for electricity and another one for getting the house cleaned at their departure.

It is actually very standard that those renting long term in Thailand will also, in addition to the rent, need to pay for water and electricity. The landlord can not guess in advance how much water and electricity the tenant will use, so the bill for those will be passed on to the tenant.  As for cleaning, many landlords will require that the tenant pay for a maid to come some TBD time per month (from 1 to 4 times per month) to clean.  Having the placed cleaned after departure is very common.

 

I rented in Germany for 2 decades, and it was common there for the tenant to pay for electricity, water, and for cleaning.