2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, but the withdrawal agreement isn't going to be rescinded because of the Irish border issue .

  As both sides of Ireland seem content with the current situation , neither seem to be in a hurry to have a conclusion 

You severely underplay the effects if the UK unilaterally ignores the Protocol. Imo as a minimum, the EU will impose sanctions of some sort. The matter will go to (non-binding) arbitration. Let's assume the ruling isn't respected (by either side), where do we go from there? Probably to increased sanctions, and then possibly to the Agreement being torn up. Let's hope that it doesn't get that far.

1 minute ago, RayC said:

You severely underplay the effects if the UK unilaterally ignores the Protocol. Imo as a minimum, the EU will impose sanctions of some sort. The matter will go to (non-binding) arbitration. Let's assume the ruling isn't respected (by either side), where do we go from there? Probably to increased sanctions, and then possibly to the Agreement being torn up. Let's hope that it doesn't get that far.

Yes, the E.U /Brussels telling United Kingdom and Ireland what they should be doing .

   Brussels saying to London and Dublin : We will punish you if you come to an agreement that we don't condone .

   The British and Irish will discuss the border they both share and come to an agreement /arrangement and then send it to Brussels for them to either pass or reject .

   And they wonder why we didnt want to stay in the E.U !!!!!!!!!

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I was addressing the lack of clarity and clear guidance in the EU Treaty (as amended and consolidated in the Treaty of Lisbon, particularly Article 50). I can only assume that as it was written by the EU it was vague by design. PM Brown did not sign it but gave Milliband the pen. Maybe Gordon knew something spooky? 

 

Anyway the Lisbon Treaty is separate to but resulted in this Withdrawal Agreement, which itself is as bad, or worse. The Belfast Agreement itself, is also separate, of course.

The only relevance that Article 50 has to the Withdrawal Agreement is that invoking it was a pre-requisite for negotiations to commence.

 

Other than that, it is completely irrelevant. It has no relationship to the contents of the Withdrawal Agreement. 

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

You severely underplay the effects if the UK unilaterally ignores the Protocol. Imo as a minimum, the EU will impose sanctions of some sort. The matter will go to (non-binding) arbitration. Let's assume the ruling isn't respected (by either side), where do we go from there? Probably to increased sanctions, and then possibly to the Agreement being torn up. Let's hope that it doesn't get that far.

Alas, in my opinion, the BNPKIP now masquerading as the CONs actively seek confrontation with the EU. How else can they explain to their people why the promised earthly paradise is not unfolding? 

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, the E.U /Brussels telling United Kingdom and Ireland what they should be doing .

   Brussels saying to London and Dublin : We will punish you if you come to an agreement that we don't condone .

   The British and Irish will discuss the border they both share and come to an agreement /arrangement and then send it to Brussels for them to either pass or reject .

   And they wonder why we didnt want to stay in the E.U !!!!!!!!!

???? Oh here we go again! How many more times????

 

No one held a gun to the UK government's head. If they couldn't accept the contents of the Withdrawal Agreement, then they shouldn't have signed it. If they didn't understand the implications of what they were signing, then they were incompetent. If the UK government had no intention of honouring the Agreement, then they were duplicitous. 

 

It really is as simple as that.

 

No amount of belly-aching about how unfair the EU is being in implementing the Agreement will change that.

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

???? Oh here we go again! How many more times????

 

No one held a gun to the UK government's head. If they couldn't accept the contents of the Withdrawal Agreement, then they shouldn't have signed it. If they didn't understand the implications of what they were signing, then they were incompetent. If the UK government had no intention of honouring the Agreement, then they were duplicitous. 

 

It really is as simple as that.

 

No amount of belly-aching about how unfair the EU is being in implementing the Agreement will change that.

The pedant in me suggests that the UK held the gun to their own head, Blazing Saddles style.

But the EU said, 'Fine. Pull the trigger, then.'

We elected not to, but keep trying that same stunt over and over again. However the adults move on and leave us as the gibbering wreck in the corner...

Just now, RayC said:

???? Oh here we go again! How many more times????

 

No one held a gun to the UK government's head. If they couldn't accept the contents of the Withdrawal Agreement, then they shouldn't have signed it. If they didn't understand the implications of what they were signing, then they were incompetent. If the UK government had no intention of honouring the Agreement, then they were duplicitous. 

 

It really is as simple as that.

 

No amount of belly-aching about how unfair the EU is being in implementing the Agreement will change that.

There were many different issues involved in the W.D , too four years and three different UK P.M's  for the UK to reach an agreement with the E.U.

   The Irish border issue is just a minor issue .

Northern Ireland , Ireland and the U.K call all come to an agreement on the issue , its just the E.U than cannot accept any of the agreements . 

   Don't forget that the E.U also signed the W.D agreement .

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There were many different issues involved in the W.D , too four years and three different UK P.M's  for the UK to reach an agreement with the E.U.

   The Irish border issue is just a minor issue .

Northern Ireland , Ireland and the U.K call all come to an agreement on the issue , its just the E.U than cannot accept any of the agreements . 

   Don't forget that the E.U also signed the W.D agreement .

The Irish Border issue is inextricably linked to the Good Friday Agreement.

 

Washington will not let London mess that up.

 

And the UK needs a trade deal from Washington.

 

This is no minor issue.

 

 

2 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Totally wrong - any increase are BELOW normal -they re trying to scrape back to the levels they were BEFORE Brexit - which BTW - is still going on.

UK and Russia are the only 2 countries in the G7 facing recession.

 

UK and Russia are the only 2 countries in the G7 facing recession.

Hilarious. And you inferred that I was obtuse. 

32 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There were many different issues involved in the W.D , too four years and three different UK P.M's  for the UK to reach an agreement with the E.U.

Agreed. It was (is) complicated. Why then did Johnson rush through the signing when clearly there were still major issues to resolve? 

 

32 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

   The Irish border issue is just a minor issue .

No matter how many times you restate this, it is still incorrect.

 

32 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Northern Ireland , Ireland and the U.K call all come to an agreement on the issue , its just the E.U than cannot accept any of the agreements . 

The EU cannot be left out of discussions while the UK remains out of the Single Market and customs union and the RoI remains within it.

 

The EU is mainly concerned with ensuring the integrity of the single market. Why should it have to potentially enter into a time-consuming revision of its' Treaties to satisfy the demands of a state which left the organisation of its' own accord?

 

32 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

   Don't forget that the E.U also signed the W.D agreement .

It did but what real choice did it have?

 

Imagine the outcry from Brexiters if the EU had turned round and said that they wouldn't sign the Agreement because they didn't think that it could work? "The EU won't let us leave!""The EU is interfering in the UK's domestic politics (in Northern Ireland), etc.

 

The problems are entirely of the UK government's making. They need to be accountable for it.

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

UK and Russia are the only 2 countries in the G7 facing recession.

Hilarious. And you inferred that I was obtuse. 

QED!!

2 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Totally wrong - any increase are BELOW normal -they re trying to scrape back to the levels they were BEFORE Brexit - which BTW - is still going on.

UK and Russia are the only 2 countries in the G7 facing recession.

...................well apart from the fact that Russia is not part of the G7 group

You state that I am "totally wrong" when I post facts and you post something that is actually completely wrong . The UKs imports and exports have both been growing and Russia is NOT a G7 Country

1 minute ago, Thunglom said:

QED!!

I see you are new on the thread. Welcome. But now be prepared to cite your arguments against a kaleidoscope of utter flapdoodle.

Polish your armour and stay with us...

25 minutes ago, baboon said:

I see you are new on the thread. Welcome. But now be prepared to cite your arguments against a kaleidoscope of utter flapdoodle.

Polish your armour and stay with us...

No arguments forthcoming so no need to add any extra confusing tasks. 

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I see you are new on the thread. Welcome. But now be prepared to cite your arguments against a kaleidoscope of utter flapdoodle.

Polish your armour and stay with us...

you're sealioning, baboon. get over it!

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

No arguments forthcoming so no need to add any extra confusing tasks. 

the arguments are above - it would appear you are incapable of grasping them - but I suppose you have a counter argument?

7 hours ago, baboon said:

The pedant in me suggests that the UK held the gun to their own head, Blazing Saddles style.

But the EU said, 'Fine. Pull the trigger, then.'

We elected not to, but keep trying that same stunt over and over again. However the adults move on and leave us as the gibbering wreck in the corner...

Been following this whole thing a bit on twitter I was suprised how many people from the UK thought it was madness that they left the EU and how they said what the hell were the leavers thinking. Plus a lot about Brit self importance. One noted Brexit been in our newspapers all the time, but if you look at other countries it does not make the news anymore. While in the UK they keep suggesting that other countries are punishing them. While nobody in the other countries really cares (hence no longer news). 

 

They say that a lot of people they talk with have almost forgotten it or shrug and just laugh at the self inflicted damage. The self importance part does show as the UK stated how the EU would colapse after they left. But it seems the only one suffering is the UK why else does Brexit and its problems come up all the time and it does not in come up in other EU countries in their newspapers.

 

 

 

Just funny how some people think its all done to anoy them. The fact is even if the French wanted to add extra people there is no room. The Brits shot down a funding for this.  So all this is self inflicted but all the UK politicians ever do is blame others. Its like the whole world is out to get them.(in their eyes).

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, robblok said:

Been following this whole thing a bit on twitter I was suprised how many people from the UK thought it was madness that they left the EU and how they said what the hell were the leavers thinking. Plus a lot about Brit self importance. One noted Brexit been in our newspapers all the time, but if you look at other countries it does not make the news anymore. While in the UK they keep suggesting that other countries are punishing them. While nobody in the other countries really cares (hence no longer news). 

 

They say that a lot of people they talk with have almost forgotten it or shrug and just laugh at the self inflicted damage. The self importance part does show as the UK stated how the EU would colapse after they left. But it seems the only one suffering is the UK why else does Brexit and its problems come up all the time and it does not in come up in other EU countries in their newspapers.

 

 

 

Just funny how some people think its all done to anoy them. The fact is even if the French wanted to add extra people there is no room. The Brits shot down a funding for this.  So all this is self inflicted but all the UK politicians ever do is blame others. Its like the whole world is out to get them.(in their eyes).

 

 

 

All that is from your Dutch perspective, not a British one.

But just for you, from the future UK PM which is, ON TOPIC....????

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/french-accused-ruining-summer-holidays-074606726.html

11 hours ago, RayC said:

 

I know that I shouldn't encourage you, but I'm curious how you arrive at these assumptions (especially the bizarre nonsense about visas and the Costa de Lotta)?

From the future UK PM, just to close your bumph down...????

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/french-accused-ruining-summer-holidays-074606726.html

A troll post "fluffing around about Brexit" has been removed, please note Brexit is in the topic title:

 

Long traffic delays at Dover ferry port are fault of Brexit, claim French

 

And Brexit is mentioned in the opening line of the OP:

 

French politicians have blamed the chaos at Dover ferry port which has led to long delays for families travelling to Europe on the introduction of passport checks under Brexit rules.

 

1 minute ago, transam said:

All that is from your Dutch perspective, not a British one.

But just for you, from the future UK PM which is, ON TOPIC....????

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/french-accused-ruining-summer-holidays-074606726.html

Eh the people on twitter and this Brit expert all claim its the UK and it is. I mean how stupid are you you union and become a third country and expect the things to stay the same. It does not and then they French ask for funding for dover gets shot down and now they are complaining.

 

Of course the ProBrexit press will claim its the French, the are a bunch of wingers. I mean there is no factual evidence at all. The guy in the twitter feed explains it quite nicely.  He is a respected Brit so you can't disqualify it this time on your narrow view that its a not Brit. 

 

Get over the fact that you guys shot yourself in the foot and now are making fools of yourself. Its looks nice in the press but factually its again a lie. This article totally ignores the fact that the French asked for funding to solve this problem ahead of problems but it was shot down. Plus not mentioned. Maybe the news should be a bit more even but i guess that is too much to ask.

 

Quote

 

In December 2020, the UK Cabinet Office reportedly rejected a £33m proposal to double the capacity for French government passport checks at Dover after the port requested funding to help it pay for additional Brexit-related border expenses.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/23/dover-travel-chaos-border-gridlock-brexit

 

 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Eh the people on twitter and this Brit expert all claim its the UK and it is. I mean how stupid are you you union and become a third country and expect the things to stay the same. It does not and then they French ask for funding for dover gets shot down and now they are complaining.

 

Of course the ProBrexit press will claim its the French, the are a bunch of wingers. I mean there is no factual evidence at all. The guy in the twitter feed explains it quite nicely.  He is a respected Brit so you can't disqualify it this time on your narrow view that its a not Brit. 

 

Get over the fact that you guys shot yourself in the foot and now are making fools of yourself. Its looks nice in the press but factually its again a lie. This article totally ignores the fact that the French asked for funding to solve this problem ahead of problems but it was shot down. Plus not mentioned. Maybe the news should be a bit more even but i guess that is too much to ask.

 

 

As I said, from your Dutch perspective.............????

Did you read my link about the Dover delays....?

It seems the French are dragging their feet, would you believe it..........????

The Frenchman in me is now utterly embarrassed, as our Government has failed to follow the shining light of Thailand. They should have implemented a France pass, where travellers would have had to give proof that they had voted "remain".

26 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

The Frenchman in me is now utterly embarrassed, as our Government has failed to follow the shining light of Thailand. They should have implemented a France pass, where travellers would have had to give proof that they had voted "remain".

No Regard to the 5 million plus EU nationals living and working in the UK then,

schools break up childcare very expensive so they decided to take children to stay with grandparents living in the EU during the summer hols

 

So many predictions and sweet promises turned out to be hot air.

 

6 minutes ago, bannork said:

 

So many predictions and sweet promises turned out to be hot air.

 

"The delays will not be at Dover, they will be at Calais" 

Turned out to be true 

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Irish Border issue is inextricably linked to the Good Friday Agreement.

 

Washington will not let London mess that up.

 

And the UK needs a trade deal from Washington.

 

This is no minor issue.

 

 

Nobody cares about Biden and his silly story that he is Irish. It's the same as all his old stories like the Mandela rubbish he comes out with. Given his state of mind he probably believes it himself at this point.

 

We didn't have a trade deal with the US when we were in the EU. We aren't desperate for one now. Especially if he thinks he can use that as a carrot for ordering us around. Did he not see how we reacted when the EU tried to do use trade to order us around? We told them to do one, pronto. We'll do the same with the US.

 

Washington doesn't tell London what to do. Except in your anti UK mind.

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Eh the people on twitter and this Brit expert all claim its the UK and it is. I mean how stupid are you you union and become a third country and expect the things to stay the same. It does not and then they French ask for funding for dover gets shot down and now they are complaining.

 

Of course the ProBrexit press will claim its the French, the are a bunch of wingers. I mean there is no factual evidence at all. The guy in the twitter feed explains it quite nicely.  He is a respected Brit so you can't disqualify it this time on your narrow view that its a not Brit. 

 

Get over the fact that you guys shot yourself in the foot and now are making fools of yourself. Its looks nice in the press but factually its again a lie. This article totally ignores the fact that the French asked for funding to solve this problem ahead of problems but it was shot down. Plus not mentioned. Maybe the news should be a bit more even but i guess that is too much to ask.

 

 

Yes, I agree with the U.K's decision . 

The U.K shouldn't be liable to pay France for their immigration offices in Calais 

France needs to pay for its own immigration offices .

I do not think its stupid to expect France to supply enough Immigration officers to meet the demand 

France often seems to asking the U.K to give them money 

soon to be introduced....

The new bio-metric system.

The Entry/Exit System (EES) will be an automated system that will be used to register travellers from third countries each time they cross an EU external border, SchengenVisaInfo.comreports.

Once it starts being functional in September, the system will protect the Schengen zone.

In full respect of fundamental rights and data protection, the system will register the person’s name, type of travel document, biometric data (fingerprints and captures facial images), as well as the date and place of entry and exit. In addition, the system will also record entry refusals.

The data will be gathered at land crossings, seaports, and air and then will be shared with the relevant government agencies.

In reports I have seen so far, Brexiters havent realised the Etias scheme is Not a visitor permit being forced on us by Eu. As others have commented, our Government suggested it as a security/vetting document, valid for 3 years, to be used by non Eu member visitors to visit Eu member countries.

19 minutes ago, bannork said:

 

So many predictions and sweet promises turned out to be hot air.

 

 

 

 

You were saying....................????