Should teachers hit students? Case highlights teacher/student/parent relationships in Thailand

[Thunglom]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Western TEFL teachers aren't hitting anyone.  They would be gone instantly.  Foreign teachers are not the same as Thai teachers.

 

Also, someone saying, as part of a discussion on the subject, "Maybe there is justification for very light corporal punishment in some circumstances" is nowhere near "violent psychopath" level. 

 

That's simply ridiculous.

Sorry but I've witnessed it. I also used to employ foreign teachers and many I rejected because they failed my discipline questions but nevertheless would go on to work elsewhere.

As I explained many are not actually trained to be teachers - they just have a one month or worse still, online certificate - this elps with the theory of TEFL but it doesn't give Tham the psychological training to understand why corporal punishment is such a no-no.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Thunglom

[Sydebolle]

Irrespective of private international school or governmental Thai school; the teacher has no right to slap a child. Likewise the child has to behave within the framework of the class and communicate with teacher(s) and fellow students in an orderly, polite and correct manner. 

If there is a repetitive provocation, continuous delayed arrival, no homework done etc. - then the school office has to inform the parents accordingly; best by having a/the parent/s seeing the teacher person-to-person. 

A class is always as fast as its weakest link; that is a given. What a teacher does not want is purposely slowing down the development with inappropriate behaviour. 

In the above case, reprimand the student for being late (if it happens again I will dismiss you from the class you've arrived late); a log-in issue is to be solved once and the next time the student can sit around watching fellow students doing whatever they do and given the remedy of password log-ins at the end of the lesson with a hint to be more attentive to such things. 

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

but it doesn't give Tham the psychological training to understand why corporal punishment is such a no-no.

What psychological training is that?

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

What psychological training is that?

I think he means when a teacher undertakes a Batchelor of Education degree (in the UK for example) part of the study is ‘child psychology’... 

 

I can’t say for sure because I’m not an educated educator - but those who are, are taught the skills not only to teach, but to interpret and read the classroom and respond accordingly, they are trained to handle ‘certain situations’ conversely a TEFL’er does not undergo education or training to anywhere near that extent.

 

 

 

 

[Hatyaier]

Bullying is normal in Thailand. 

[BangkokReady]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think he means when a teacher undertakes a Batchelor of Education degree (in the UK for example) part of the study is ‘child psychology’... 

 

I can’t say for sure because I’m not an educated educator - but those who are, are taught the skills not only to teach, but to interpret and read the classroom and respond accordingly, they are trained to handle ‘certain situations’ conversely a TEFL’er does not undergo education or training to anywhere near that extent.

Is child psychology able to prove that there is no benefit to corporal punishment in any culture?  It seems like it would still be an opinion.  An opinion of an expert, but still an opinion.

 

I'm interested to see any research, but it seems like it would be hard to prove.

 

Also, it was made illegal, so I'm not sure they would need to try to argue why corporal punishment is not a positive thing.

Edited August 10, 2022 by BangkokReady

[Sir Dude]

It's a rhetorical question really... and the answer is "No". However, errant students should be failed for their belligerence or lack of co-operation. At school or university, it is simply a case of "To pass, you have to jump this high"... then, "Can you jump that high?". If not, then you are in remedial class. No need for physical nonsense.

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

Irrespective of private international school or governmental Thai school; the teacher has no right to slap a child. Likewise the child has to behave within the framework of the class and communicate with teacher(s) and fellow students in an orderly, polite and correct manner. 

If there is a repetitive provocation, continuous delayed arrival, no homework done etc. - then the school office has to inform the parents accordingly; best by having a/the parent/s seeing the teacher person-to-person. 

A class is always as fast as its weakest link; that is a given. What a teacher does not want is purposely slowing down the development with inappropriate behaviour. 

In the above case, reprimand the student for being late (if it happens again I will dismiss you from the class you've arrived late); a log-in issue is to be solved once and the next time the student can sit around watching fellow students doing whatever they do and given the remedy of password log-ins at the end of the lesson with a hint to be more attentive to such things. 

Sounds normal, but doesn't work here in THailand with Thai students en in Thai schools. Believe me there is nothing that will work and the students can drive you really crazy. They know they are are back-upped by the school, parents and society and the teacher stands empty handed... Expel from class not possible, stay after school cannot as the kid goes home by schoolbus, same can't come earlier, writing rules they don't or parents and brothers and sisters will help them if you have a good student who is willing otherwise they don't, Even let them clean the schoolyard, wash the schoolbus, or clean the toilets are forbidden by the headmasters and directors, keep them in the class till everyone is finished is not done, and many more.... Believe me teachers don't have any means to correct the student and the students know it and use it.. The cane or a slap are being a n" normal" punishment and is accepted by them. 

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

What psychological training is that?

QED - did you train as a teacher??

[Gecko123]

8 hours ago, Thunglom said:

QED - did you train as a teacher??

It has not gone unnoticed that you're very dismissive towards anyone who doesn't fit your mold of proper teacher conduct. You resort to putdowns whenever you can't rebut counterpoints made about the realities of teaching in government schools. You keep questioning people's qualifications and teaching experience.

 

In turn, I am starting to wonder how much time you've actually spent in the classroom, or whether you're just some former backroom school administrator trying to relive your officious glory days?

 

If you were as truly concerned about student welfare and as experienced as you claim to be, you'd be offering specific and REALISTIC suggestions about how a teacher's classroom management skills could be improved upon so that corporal punishment would be completely unnecessary.

 

For example, just a little earlier on this thread, one poster suggested a whole slew of conventional disciplinary steps a teacher could take as alternatives to corporal punishment. This was quickly followed by another poster who methodically explained why most of these suggestions lacked practicality in many Thai government schools.

 

So my specific question to you is: what guidance can you with your presumably decades worth of teaching experience, and your walls plastered with early education and child psychology diplomas and teaching certificates offer to those so obviously in need of guidance about how to manage these classroom realities?

Edited August 11, 2022 by Gecko123

[tingtong]

Sincere question:

If the parent doesn't like the grade the kid gets, can he just casually, and meaninglessly slept the teacher front of his/her peers?

 

I feel other parents with kids who take home bad grades would be sympathetic, so all should be fine and well then, right?

 

 

[zoltannyc]

6 hours ago, tingtong said:

Sincere question:

If the parent doesn't like the grade the kid gets, can he just casually, and meaninglessly slept the teacher front of his/her peers?

 

I feel other parents with kids who take home bad grades would be sympathetic, so all should be fine and well then, right?

 

 

Exactly my question too. PTAs (Parent Teacher Association) should introduce spanking for teachers who can't teach kids to get good grades.

[Slip]

22 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

It's a rhetorical question really... and the answer is "No". However, errant students should be failed for their belligerence or lack of co-operation. At school or university, it is simply a case of "To pass, you have to jump this high"... then, "Can you jump that high?". If not, then you are in remedial class. No need for physical nonsense.

If you fail students for belligerence or lack of co-operation, then you are not giving an authentic assessment of the skills in the subject surely?  Is the point of your class to teach content or 'appropriate behaviour'?

[Slip]

Sorry to post twice in quick succession, but I remembered the answer.  Several posters have alluded to it already, but not sure have said it straight out.  It's rapport.  If you have it, you can control any class; if you don't even the mildest class could be challenging.  It's a rare case where a beating builds rapport.  We just need to get better- well those of us here who are actually teachers. lol.

[MyFriend You]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:50 PM, kingstonkid said:

Big difference between your psycho uncle and a teacher or disciplinarian

The problem is that parents no longer teach kids respect anywhere anymore.

 

Let's look at it a different way.  You are trying to teach a group of 35 teens some are paying attention and are interested.  Some don't care

 

6 boys in the back are laughing carrying on and tell you to truck off we don't care.

 

How do you resolve the problem.

 

Oh yeah they are louder than you.

I await your solution.

 

 

My first thought was "send them out of class, with a note to parents, you want your son back in my class teach him some manners first'...........then I thought, it depends on where the school is ....... USA - I'd just call Securirty ...........Thailand, I'd have a big stick in my hand (fdor protection) and the note - give it to them, and step back.  Yep, I'd probably lose my job.   BTW I am not and never have been a School Teacher, but have taught Troops on all corners of the earth, some real badass folks - and learned the hard way, you sytand your ground 99.5% will back down, it's the other half % you have to worry about, like bringing a gun back to school with them.     Peace

[Iamfalang]

4 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Thailand, I'd have a big stick in my hand (fdor protection)

you want to teach kids while holding a big stick in your hand in an aggressive manner?

 

why not teach with 100 guns strapped to your body (for protection).

 

And we wonder why kids aren't learning.  

 

Thailand's English competency ranked extremely, even worse than Cambodia.

 

Falang teachers failing daily.....................

 

 

[MyFriend You]

1 minute ago, Iamfalang said:

you want to teach kids while holding a big stick in your hand in an aggressive manner?

 

why not teach with 100 guns strapped to your body (for protection).

 

And we wonder why kids aren't learning.  

 

Thailand's English competency ranked extremely, even worse than Cambodia.

 

Falang teachers failing daily.....................

 

 

No, only based on kingstonkid's scenario above, I assume the 6 kids making all the noise in the back of the class are in a gang, and wouldn't hesitate to assault a teacher, farang or otherwise.   Thats when the stick comes out as a teaching tool to make a point..................as for guns, I don't own one, haven't in almost 20 years and don't see a need for one now..............Nuff Said            Peace

[Sydebolle]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:16 PM, ikke1959 said:

Sounds normal, but doesn't work here in THailand with Thai students en in Thai schools. Believe me there is nothing that will work and the students can drive you really crazy. They know they are are back-upped by the school, parents and society and the teacher stands empty handed... Expel from class not possible, stay after school cannot as the kid goes home by schoolbus, same can't come earlier, writing rules they don't or parents and brothers and sisters will help them if you have a good student who is willing otherwise they don't, Even let them clean the schoolyard, wash the schoolbus, or clean the toilets are forbidden by the headmasters and directors, keep them in the class till everyone is finished is not done, and many more.... Believe me teachers don't have any means to correct the student and the students know it and use it.. The cane or a slap are being a n" normal" punishment and is accepted by them. 

Well, you just quoted some good old memories from my long-gone school days; yep, we had to come early, leave later, show up on a school free afternoon, toilet or schoolyard duty - the works. Call me an old fart but I still believe in these corrective measures. We got whacked and we all know perfectly well the same moment, that we deserved it. Nobody ever when home to report/whine with parents. If I would have done that, my father might have whacked me again with the comment "you must have deserved it". 

But why do I care, I'm in my last chapter of life, kids are grown up (good citizen) and the grandkids are most welcome as they can be "returned to sender" anytime. Good times for all; do we really have to care for all those generations to come and not even born yet? 

[Thunglom]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:55 AM, Gecko123 said:

It has not gone unnoticed that you're very dismissive towards anyone who doesn't fit your mold of proper teacher conduct. You resort to putdowns whenever you can't rebut counterpoints made about the realities of teaching in government schools. You keep questioning people's qualifications and teaching experience.

 

In turn, I am starting to wonder how much time you've actually spent in the classroom, or whether you're just some former backroom school administrator trying to relive your officious glory days?

 

If you were as truly concerned about student welfare and as experienced as you claim to be, you'd be offering specific and REALISTIC suggestions about how a teacher's classroom management skills could be improved upon so that corporal punishment would be completely unnecessary.

 

For example, just a little earlier on this thread, one poster suggested a whole slew of conventional disciplinary steps a teacher could take as alternatives to corporal punishment. This was quickly followed by another poster who methodically explained why most of these suggestions lacked practicality in many Thai government schools.

 

So my specific question to you is: what guidance can you with your presumably decades worth of teaching experience, and your walls plastered with early education and child psychology diplomas and teaching certificates offer to those so obviously in need of guidance about how to manage these classroom realities?

You assumptions and lack of logical or any critical thinking just reinforce your image as a child beater.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 8/9/2022 at 9:40 AM, 2baht said:

It's a Thai thing, let them work it out!

There is the world, and there is Thailand...

 

Anyway, if I had a kid in school to whom this happened, the teacher better made sure not to be seen by me.

[3NUMBAS]

one of my old school mates was belted round the ear by a     teacher  who broke h is ear drum  and was sued for damages  which he was paying off for years..he never did it again

[Durian ong]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:26 AM, Photoguy21 said:

No they shouldn't. It is assault no matter which way you look at it.

How about students assaulting teachers ? Since yiu can't touch me, I'm giving it to you. 

[Photoguy21]

3 hours ago, Durian ong said:

How about students assaulting teachers ? Since yiu can't touch me, I'm giving it to you. 

Self defence is one thing but hitting someone that is not in self defence is totally different.

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, Durian ong said:

How about students assaulting teachers ? Since yiu can't touch me, I'm giving it to you. 

Teachers should quickly stop such events and get the headmaster/security/police to the room quickly.

 

If the altercation continues it's sending a signal that violence is OK that shouldn't be allowed to happen. And it could easily send  signal that fighting with teachers is OK, even fun. Not on!

Edited August 20, 2022 by scorecard