Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

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1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Fundamentally because DT considers himself to STILL be the elected POTUS. As far as he's concerned, he's just on a four year furlough until this aberration of 'The Steal' is resolved in his favor.

That kind of aligns with my guess that it's his way of trolling the current administration and taking out his resentment on them.

[Tippaporn]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

They found top secret documents, which is a crime, stop spreading BS

Not in and of itself.  You know that but pretend that's not the case here.  Leaving some of the truth out is misrepresentation.

[Phoenix Rising]

49 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Biden was and still is.  The FBI have been in possession of Hunter's laptop since Dec. 9, 2019.  Not a single action or word by the FBI to date.

If your diversions and whaddaboutisms get any lamer now we need to come up with a different metric to rate you.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

...with no details of what the documents are, or what they actually contain!

The fact that the lawyer signed a declaration to the justice department that there were no documents there is pretty incriminating.

[FritsSikkink]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

...with no details of what the documents are, or what they contain.

Might be because they are TOP SECRET

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

He didn't fully cooperate as he still had top secret documents in his possession, another lie.

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

There was nothing to negotiate. Do bank robbers get to negotiate how much of the loot they keep?

 

If Trump thinks some of those documents are personal and unrelated to his previous position as president then his option is to give them back and sue.

Edited August 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[FritsSikkink]

Just now, Tippaporn said:

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

He committed a crime by taking them. What is there to negotiate? when he was notified and had any credibility he would have returned them long time ago. Never read so much nonsense from 1 person in 1 thread.

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1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

By itself, "being in negotiations doesn't signify much. Were the negotiations getting anywhere? Was progress being made? Was he just stalling?

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

But, according to the article linked to this applies only to the cases where the President discloses something and says it's declassified. It has nothing to do with whether the President can just declare en masse that documents are classified. So, sure, if he cites the info verbally, he can declare it's declassified. Not the same thing as just declaring unspecified documents are declassified.

I've worked with clients and contractors where an important online document has a disclaimer in fine print in the footer that says, "This is a controlled document unless printed."

 

I guess DT's defence will be that these TS/SCI files had, "This is a classified document until the President takes it out of the office." in the footer.

 

...in invisible ink.

 

...that can only be read after scanning with his Captain America secret spy scanner ring that came with his son's Marvel comics subscription.

[Walker88]

The inventory page was released and indicated some documents were TS/SCI. The SCI part is "Sensitive Compartmentalized Information". We called that 'need to know'. What it often is is HUMINT and SIGINT. HUMINT is human intelligence, and the SCI part would note the identity of a clandestine asset working for CIA. SIGINT is signals intelligence, which might be a CIA eavesdropping program or an NSA program. The SCI here would detail what the intercepts are.

 

There is ZERO need for 45 to even know any of this. I know that then-DCI Haspel took great pains to keep such sensitive material from him, as he actually has no right to know identities, but I fear his lapdogs like grenell and ratcliffe, who he placed as DNI, might have somehow obtained such material.

 

It absolutely disgusts me that he would be so cavalier with this material. When I recruited clandestine assets, I knew I owed them security. Their lives were on the line. Their families lives were on the line. My first mentor once told me that my first responsibility was the safety of any asset I handled, even to the extent that I should be ready to give my own life for the asset and his family.

 

That a never-served, bloated, lying, self-serving, corrupt POS would risk the lives of people who trusted me or other agency case officers makes me sick. I want that slimeball prosecuted. I want him to pay. If he is convicted for the capital crime of sedition in the 6 January insurrection, I will volunteer to be involved in carrying out the sentence against him. With pleasure. What he has done is at best unbelievable recklessness and at worst, treason.

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Not in and of itself.  You know that but pretend that's not the case here.  Leaving some of the truth out is misrepresentation.

Your still in a dream aren't you? You want to believe it is all a lie, but can not come to grips with reality like all of the others 45 has brainwashed.  The man is a loose cannon who divided the country and it is like Jefferson Davis believing that the South should split from the North and Rise again, like a phoenix from the ashes. Trump will never return to the White House my friend, the sooner you understand that the sooner you will be on the road to healing.

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I can read and I've seen the title, thanks.  Some posters clearly don't know that he's not been charged.

Some presume others don't know he hasn't been charged. 

I think that presumption is incorrect.

[coolcarer]

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

...with no details of what the documents are, or what they actually contain!

Top secret, they’ve not been declassified. I would not be surprised that if there is a trial some aspects of it will be a closed session purely because of the highly sensitive nature of the information.

[NanLaew]

56 minutes ago, xylophone said:

1 hour ago, Tropposurfer said:

This handing over of the self to another in the case of MAGA and the Republican Party to Trump is predicated on a recognition by these folks in Trump of what is in them i.e. xenophobia, racism, anti-semitism, misogyny, fear of never-enough, greed, lust for power, and insatiable need for more and more, sadism, masochism, rage, neurotic needs around control, and a shopping-list of other neuroses, repressions and suppressions.

Well said and IMO so true.

And guns. If you're keen on getting their shopping list right, don't forget the semi-automatics.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, mikeymike100 said:

What you say is fair enough. If that is in fact what happened? If the evidence is so damming then surely the DOJ can charge him? As yet as far as I know he hasn't been charged with anything.

Because they don't want to rush this case would be the answer. AG Garland will make absolutely 100% sure all tees are crossed and all ies are dotted before making whatever move he's gonna make, Surely you can understand that, right?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Phoenix Rising

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

He declared via his lawyer there were no classified documents. So what was the negotiatn about?

Let alone that there is nothing to negotiate about illegally obtained materials.

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

Trump's lawyer had already signed a statement that all documents had been returned. Presumably this was false. Another crime.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Oh, let's pretend there are no connections to what's on the laptop and Joe Biden. 

Oh, let's pretend you're not posting lame diversions.  

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There was nothing to negotiate. Do bank robbers get to negotiate how much of the loot they keep?

 

If Trump thinks some of those documents are personal and unrelated to his previous position as president then his option is to give them back and sue.

Okay, now let's pretend that there's never been a single negotiation with any FPOTUS before in the entirety of U.S. history.  And let's pretend, too, that the presumption that Trump was illegally in possession of what he had is not a presumption but fact.  And let's pretend that no further future information of any specificity about anything will have any bearing on the matter.  And let's pretend that Trump didn't have the ability to declassify what he had in his possession.  And let's pretend further to forget that no enforcement mechanism exists in this squabble with the National Archives.

And above all let's pretend that Trump negotiating with the National Archives is on par with bank robbers negotiating how much money the get to keep.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Of the 30,000 emails that the FBI examined..."

In addition to those emails, the other 31,830 that she deemed "personal" that she deleted so they could not be examined by the authorities should not be forgotten.

Oh, are we talking about Hillary again??

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Okay, now let's pretend that there's never been a single negotiation with any FPOTUS before in the entirety of U.S. history.  And let's pretend, too, that the presumption that Trump was illegally in possession of what he had is not a presumption but fact.  And let's pretend that no further future information of any specificity about anything will have any bearing on the matter.  And let's pretend that Trump didn't have the ability to declassify what he had in his possession.  And let's pretend further to forget that no enforcement mechanism exists in this squabble with the National Archives.

And above all let's pretend that Trump negotiating with the National Archives is on par with bank robbers negotiating how much money the get to keep.

There never has been any negotiations with any president ever over stolen documents. What was there to negotiate?

 

The word negotiate comes from the Trump camp. The FBI simply gave him a subpoena to return the documents, not an offer to negotiate.

Edited August 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Since you've edited your post since I quoted it . . .

"Is everyone who might run for President exempt from criminal investigations, or only Trump?"

Criminal investigations, not presumptions of guilt was what you stated.  Don't conveniently change the subject.

LOL, says the guy who changed the subject from trump's crimes to Hunter Biden's laptop, Hillary's emails, [insert every lame diversion in the book]!

[mikeymike100]

16 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Because they don't want to rush this case would be the answer. AG Garland will make absolutely 1005 sure all tees are crossed and all ies are dotted before making whatever move he's gonna make, Surely you can understand that, right?

I do understand the FBI and DOJ will have to tread very carefully, yes!

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

He was in negotiations.  You want to fool people to turn that fact into "not fully cooperating?"  Careful when you throw the word "lie" around.

How does a thief negotiate with the authorities? Only when his name is trump and he has millions of lemming followers, many who are armed.

IMO, as soon as they found secret/top secret material at Mar-A-Lamo they should have slapped the cuffs on 45 and bumrushed him to Leavenworth to await trial for high treason.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Phoenix Rising

[Tippaporn]

36 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

He committed a crime by taking them. What is there to negotiate? when he was notified and had any credibility he would have returned them long time ago. Never read so much nonsense from 1 person in 1 thread.

You make all sorts of assumptions, continue to do so, and refuse to acknowledge any your assumptions as such.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of nonsense.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, mikeymike100 said:

What you say is fair enough. If that is in fact what happened? If the evidence is so damming then surely the DOJ can charge him? As yet as far as I know he hasn't been charged with anything.

Exactly, if what Trump did is do damning and critical to the security of the USA why hasn't Trump already been charged? Unless of course they (FBI) doesn't have enough to charge him. 

[FritsSikkink]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You make all sorts of assumptions, continue to do so, and refuse to acknowledge any your assumptions as such.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of nonsense.

No assumptions, FACTS which you either refuse to read or to acknowledge. I am done with you either trolling or telling lies. Goodbye.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I've seen some good videos of drugs and hookers. ahahaa

me too, here's one

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

19 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Okay, now let's pretend that there's never been a single negotiation with any FPOTUS before in the entirety of U.S. history.  And let's pretend, too, that the presumption that Trump was illegally in possession of what he had is not a presumption but fact.  And let's pretend that no further future information of any specificity about anything will have any bearing on the matter.  And let's pretend that Trump didn't have the ability to declassify what he had in his possession.  And let's pretend further to forget that no enforcement mechanism exists in this squabble with the National Archives.

And above all let's pretend that Trump negotiating with the National Archives is on par with bank robbers negotiating how much money the get to keep.

"Okay, now let's pretend that there's never been a single negotiation with any FPOTUS before in the entirety of U.S. history."

OK, maybe you can educate us on the history of this? When have the authorities been negotiating with former presidents regarding illegal removal of classified material?

 

"And let's pretend, too, that the presumption that Trump was illegally in possession of what he had is not a presumption but fact."

We should pretend to presume a non-presumption? I know they have 'kinda' legalized weed in Thailand but isn't it a bit early in the day?

 

"And let's pretend that Trump didn't have the ability to declassify what he had in his possession."

No need, we know the answer; There are limits to that (nuclear secrets exempt) and rules/procedures that have be followed. And we all know how well trump does with rules and limits.
Trump says "it was all declassified" — how declassification usually works

 

"And above all let's pretend that Trump negotiating with the National Archives is on par with bank robbers negotiating how much money the get to keep."

No need to pretend, it's a very apt comparison - except for the fact that what trump has done is potentially much, MUCH worse.