Peer reviewed Thai research "Cardiovascular Manifestation of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine in Adolescents"

[Blablaat]

There was a preprint available since July. Now the article is peer reviewed aka approved. Doesn't get the attention it deserves it seems.

 

https://www.mdpi.com/2414-6366/7/8/196

 

"This study focuses on cardiovascular manifestation, particularly myocarditis and pericarditis events, after BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine injection in Thai adolescents. This prospective cohort study enrolled students aged 13–18 years from two schools, who received the second dose of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. Data including demographics, symptoms, vital signs, ECG, echocardiography, and cardiac enzymes were collected at baseline, Day 3, Day 7, and Day 14 (optional) using case record forms. We enrolled 314 participants; of these, 13 participants were lost to follow-up, leaving 301 participants for analysis. The most common cardiovascular signs and symptoms were tachycardia (7.64%), shortness of breath (6.64%), palpitation (4.32%), chest pain (4.32%), and hypertension (3.99%). One participant could have more than one sign and/or symptom. Seven participants (2.33%) exhibited at least one elevated cardiac biomarker or positive lab assessments. Cardiovascular manifestations were found in 29.24% of patients, ranging from tachycardia or palpitation to myopericarditis. Myopericarditis was confirmed in one patient after vaccination. Two patients had suspected pericarditis and four patients had suspected subclinical myocarditis. In conclusion, Cardiovascular manifestation in adolescents after BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccination included tachycardia, palpitation, and myopericarditis. The clinical presentation of myopericarditis after vaccination was usually mild and temporary, with all cases fully recovering within 14 days. Hence, adolescents receiving mRNA vaccines should be monitored for cardiovascular side effects. Clinical Trial Registration: NCT05288231."

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by onthedarkside
comment on moderation comment removed

[mjnaus]

Not a single mention of a control group? If control is missing; how can this be taken seriously?

[danferguson]

" Two patients had suspected pericarditis and four patients had suspected subclinical myocarditis. In conclusion, Cardiovascular manifestation in adolescents after BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccination included tachycardia, palpitation, and myopericarditis. The clinical presentation of myopericarditis after vaccination was usually mild and temporary, with all cases fully recovering within 14 days."

 

Suspected? Mild and temporary? Does not seem worth any attention. Does not mean it is bad research, just that it is not any kind of disaster, so why give it any attention.

And as previous poster says, compared to what? Are these numbers normal, high, low? What are the numbers for people who get infected? If you don't know all that, it is saying nothing

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, danferguson said:

If you don't know all that, it is saying nothing

From the full report linked above:

 

"Although cardiovascular events have been reported with the COVID-19 vaccine, causality has yet to be established, because such cardiovascular adverse events are also common among the general public who do not receive the intervention."

 

AND

 

"the incidence of COVID-19 [disease]-associated cardiac injury or myocarditis is much higher, estimated to be 100 times higher than mRNA COVID-19-related myocarditis."

 

AND

 

"The adverse cardiovascular manifestations observed in this adolescent cohort were both mild and transient."

 

[danferguson]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

From the full report linked above:

 

"Although cardiovascular events have been reported with the COVID-19 vaccine, causality has yet to be established, because such cardiovascular adverse events are also common among the general public who do not receive the intervention."

 

AND

 

"the incidence of COVID-19 [disease]-associated cardiac injury or myocarditis is much higher, estimated to be 100 times higher than mRNA COVID-19-related myocarditis."

 

AND

 

"The adverse cardiovascular manifestations observed in this adolescent cohort were both mild and transient."

 

Exactly - need to read the whole thing for full understanding and context

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

"the incidence of COVID-19 [disease]-associated cardiac injury or myocarditis is much higher, estimated to be 100 times higher than mRNA COVID-19-related myocarditis."

This....    all those expressing ‘anti-vax' concern regarding pericarditis and myocarditis always overlook this very issue....   these issues [pericarditis and myocarditis] are far more common from Covid-19 than the vaccines. 

 

These issues are far more common in influenza sufferers with an estimated 10% of those who catch the ‘flu’ suffering from pericarditis and myocarditis.

 

The complications caused by vaccines can only be evaluated intelligently and with balance in comparison with control groups.

Too many anti-vaxxers completely and perhaps selectively and deliberately overlook this. 

 

[onthedarkside]

A post with a quote lacking a weblink to the source has been removed.

 

[edogthong]

On 8/31/2022 at 4:36 PM, richard_smith237 said:

The complications caused by vaccines can only be evaluated intelligently and with balance in comparison with control groups.

Too many anti-vaxxers completely and perhaps selectively and deliberately overlook this. 

You and everyone else in here are overlooking the fact that the vaccines don't stop infection. So vaccinated individuals have to worry about risks from infection as well as the risks from the vaccines. 

[edogthong]

On 8/31/2022 at 4:36 PM, richard_smith237 said:

these issues [pericarditis and myocarditis] are far more common from Covid-19 than the vaccines. 

No, not for males under 40. And again, don't forget that vaccinated individuals also get infected and suffer those risks as well as the risks associated with the vaccines. 

 

The American Heart Association published an article two weeks ago with a headline that led people to believe what you are spouting. However, if you go on to actually read the article, you'll find:

 

"Among men under 40, there were an estimated four extra cases of myocarditis associated with the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and 14 extra cases with the first dose of the Moderna vaccine for every 1 million men vaccinated. That risk rose with the second dose for all three vaccines studied and was highest for Moderna's, which had an additional 97 myocarditis cases per 1 million. For unvaccinated men under 40 with COVID-19, there were 16 additional myocarditis cases per million."

 

Web link to the article: 

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, edogthong said:

So vaccinated individuals have to worry about risks from infection as well as the risks from the vaccines. 

Here's the greater risk people need to be worried about, per the U.S. CDC, and it's for the UNvaccinated -- not the vaccinated.

 

14 times greater risk of dying from COVID among the age 50+ group who are UNvaccinated, vs those vaccinated with two booster shots or better.

 

 

 

Source link

Edited September 7, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, edogthong said:

The American Heart Association published an article two weeks ago

Yes, and their full finding of that study was:

 

"the risk of myocarditis associated with the vaccine was lower than the risk associated with COVID-19 infection before or after vaccination – with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis following vaccination."

 

Rare myocarditis cases associated with COVID vaccinated typically have been mild and short-term. People usually recover fully and quickly.

 

COVID death, they don't recover from.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[edogthong]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's the risk people need to be worried about, per the U.S. CDC, and its for the UNvaccinated -- not the vaccinated.

 

 

Source link

First of all, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. This thread is about the Thai study that looked at heart effects in young people. 

 

Secondly, those statistics are not looking at "people" as you claim. They're looking at people over 50 years of age. And they're not looking at their overall health status either. By now, we know that pretty much all of those deaths are from individuals with pre-existing health conditions such as obesity and diabetes. But again, this is not what this thread is about. It's about young people without pre-existing medical issues. 

[edogthong]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis following vaccination

Yes, that was my point. 

[transam]

My mate is 80, an epileptic, been on heart tablets for 20 years, they say he will pop off if he stops taking them.

He's had 2 Pfizers last year. We had a beer this morning..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If I were a person in my late teens or 20s, I'd opt for the Pfizer vaccine over the Moderna vaccine... because the science and research supports that choice.

 

Even though as the Thai study above involving students explains, all of the cases where they found any vaccine side effects had short-term effects and all recovered quickly and fully.

[Gulfsailor]

On 8/30/2022 at 1:54 PM, mjnaus said:

Not a single mention of a control group? If control is missing; how can this be taken seriously?

In a prospective cohort study, the control group is internal, in this case the data gathered at baseline (prior to the vaccination). 
a prospective cohort study is more powerful than a case-control study (which you are thinking of), because it distinguishes cause and effect. 

[edogthong]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

any vaccine side effects had short-term effects and all recovered quickly and fully.

Fully recovered doesn't necessarily mean that they're back to the condition they were in before their vaccinations. That is especially true with the one case that suffered from myocarditis. You can't always see scarring of the heart muscle.

[retiree]

1 hour ago, Gulfsailor said:

a prospective cohort study is more powerful than a case-control study (which you are thinking of), because it distinguishes cause and effect. 

With all due respect, the more apt comparison is to a randomized controlled trial (RCT) in which a subset of patients receive a placebo ("blind") treatment.  We don't know how many of the students had palpitations, chest pains, etc. because they received injections, and were in a group of young people who (probably) expected to have some kind of reaction, or might have had a similar symptom by coincidence in the same period.    Cohort studies are particularly useful over the long term, with large groups, unambiguous outcomes (like death), and variables that can't be blinded; e.g. the effect of cigarette smoking.  

 

Note that according to Table 5, there was no statistically significant variation in any of the 11 electrocardiograph measures taken before, during, and after the test.  This isn't my area of expertise, but this appears to be a well-conducted and useful study partly because it reports its findings, and doesn't overreach by making unsupported claims about cause and effect. 

-- Retiree 

Edited September 7, 2022 by retiree

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, edogthong said:

Fully recovered doesn't necessarily mean that they're back to the condition they were in before their vaccinations. That is especially true with the one case that suffered from myocarditis. You can't always see scarring of the heart muscle.

 

In the one confirmed myo case in the Thai students study, I believe they did follow-up exams sufficient to determine there was NO lingering after-effects, and indicated such in their paper.

 

[onthedarkside]

A repeat of a previously removed post made elsewhere has been removed, along with an ensuing reply.