Thailand’s once mighty foreign tourism industry lastingly damaged with lower spends and numbers

[rabang]

On 9/1/2022 at 3:09 AM, bkk6060 said:

Bangkok seems to be mostly Arabs walking the malls and going for medical tourism.

Big influx of Indian males in Pattaya walking around, getting massages hitting on girls on Beach Road.

That is the majority of tourists I have seen can't remember the last time I saw a western family here on holiday. School has started now they won't be coming anyway.

The Chinese will change the numbers significantly when they start coming, but a world wide recession could kill any large recovery until 2024.

Probably at least 3 years before the Chinese can travel in significant numbers. China has just postponed some international sports championships that were planned for next year and moved them to 2025 instead. Zero covid policy will remain probably at least until the end of next year.

Edited September 4, 2022 by rabang

[rabang]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:49 AM, NorthernRyland said:

Maskland is really trying my patience too. I'm coming back in 10 days from 2 months in the US where basically no one has a mask anymore and I've nearly forget about them. It's going to sting when I get back to Chiang Mai and have to face "the new normal" like it's still March 2020. ????

This could be a decisive factor for me as well, especially with the flights being so expensive. I have been hoping that the masking would end and it simply doesn't feel like it is worth going to a faceless nation when one is used to a normality for several months already.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, rabang said:

This could be a decisive factor for me as well, especially with the flights being so expensive. I have been hoping that the masking would end and it simply doesn't feel like it is worth going to a faceless nation when one is used to a normality for several months already.

Tourists in the Pattaya area are not wearing masks and they are not being forced to. Perhaps if you go into a bank or similar business one might be needed. Not really much to make a fuss about. 

[morrobay]

3 hours ago, rabang said:

Probably at least 3 years before the Chinese can travel in significant numbers. China has just postponed some international sports championships that were planned for next year and moved them to 2025 instead. Zero covid policy will remain probably at least until the end of next year.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566320157160382464

[rabang]

12 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Tourists in the Pattaya area are not wearing masks and they are not being forced to. Perhaps if you go into a bank or similar business one might be needed. Not really much to make a fuss about. 

It is good to know masks are are not de facto mandatory despite locals wearing them religiously, even if the faceless people create an unpleasant vibe.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, rabang said:

It is good to know masks are are not de facto mandatory despite locals wearing them religiously, even if the faceless people create an unpleasant vibe.

The locals may well be in town from Bangkok.... I respect their right to wear a mask if they choose to do so. 

[morrobay]

On 9/3/2022 at 9:30 AM, Walker88 said:

I've been in Thailand for the entire Covid Era and have watched as the country re-opened. I have a pretty good of idea of who has come to visit and why they came.

 

Perhaps TAT could look at what is, rather than what it wants to pretend it is. Try to determine what Thailand's competitive advantage is and go after the demographic(s) to whom that appeals.

 

Most of the first arrivals were single men of various ages. I don't think any of them were coming for the temples. When things first began to open up, I would guesstimate 95% of arrivals were in this demographic. This demo eats, drinks, goes to agogos, and books hotels---both long and short term. Thailand may not like being a worldwide draw for the sort of thing attracting this demo, but it brings in a good bit of money. The earliest arriving single males were mostly Western, but over the last few months lots of East Asian single males are coming. This demo creates a lot of jobs, not all of which are carnal in nature, as the spillover also includes the entire food and beverage industry, hotel and restaurant workers, service staff, taxi drivers, etc.

 

Slowly I began to see a few families in the mix, mostly Western. This demographic probably visits famous tourist spots, takes a river/klong cruise, hits the malls, maybe goes to a beach area, and buys souvenirs in Night Markets (many of which have disappeared). They are a much lower percentage of arrivals than in the past, based on my own anecdotal evidence. Maybe those who dare grab the kids and fly for 10-24 hours have 'been there, done that' and already checked the box that says "Thailand". Plus, rapidly declining birth rates say this demo is an endangered species. Best not make it a long term target. (The first group, on the other hand, is never finished 'being there and doing that', as 'that' is an endless and repetitive urge.)

 

Then came the backpackers. The relaxed cannabis laws have enticed some of them, but the Millennial idea of 'experience' is what gets them moving. They've also watch The Beach a dozen times and seen videos of Full Moon Raves. Individually they might not spend much, but collectively they represent a decent take.

 

Now it's Indians. While some are families, anyone in Bangkok could be forgiven for thinking India has only males, no females. I guess the same is true in Pattaya. As the likely unfair and stereotypical joke goes, Thailand will welcome 20 million Indian visitors, so that takes care of two hotel rooms, but what about the other million rooms? Indians are the new Chinese in terms of Thai tourism. TAT has to come up with a strategy to draw the better heeled Indians, because it could be a huge and profitable market.

 

 

Good summary. But in Pattaya you missed the s***lodes of these korean males who come to smoke cigarettes all day. And I tell them just that when passing by these clones.

[Nickelbeer]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:28 AM, RichardColeman said:

Seriously, what did they expect ? 2 years of closure and using your savings up, world in recession, utility bills and gas up 80%, expensive flights, fear of Thailand yoyo'ing and getting stuck far from home, crazy high baht, some airlines still not flying direct to Thailand yet. The Thai government themselves caused more pain than the disease.

 

If Thailand seriously wanted more tourists they could start offering discounted rooms more, sub the national carrier to drop flight costs, try to get the baht weaker, loads more they could do, but they still think Thailand as some golden tourist hotspot that tourists will flock to - they are now finding out, people still wont come and those that come wont spend much , simply as they dont have much !

This attitude is an offshoot of the old Thai, custom of “when business is bad, raise prices”.  As usual, those who are least qualified to solve problems are the ones appointed to deal with them. There’s also the “blame the farang” mentality, which is a variation on a theme that has worked very well for a certain American politician. Find a scapegoat and the public will flock to your door.

[Gknrd]

Too many other places for westerners to go now. I am here now. And am enjoying myself. But, I would never come here to live. Pristine beaches of Mexico and South America.  Beautiful jungles and nature. Just no comparison what so ever.  There is absolutely nothing here anymore that you cannot get 10 fold elsewhere.

IMHO only ones coming here and thinking it is paradise are the poor and uneducated.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Gknrd

[TropicalGuy]

23 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

Too many other places for westerners to go now. I am here now. And am enjoying myself. But, I would never come here to live. Pristine beaches of Mexico and South America.  Beautiful jungles and nature. Just no comparison what so ever.  There is absolutely nothing here anymore that you cannot get 10 fold elsewhere.

IMHO only ones coming here and thinking it is paradise are the poor and uneducated.

“Mexico & South America” … yeah right….. Mexico being a cartel -run narco state with worlds highest murder rates … and skinned mutilated bodies hanging from under passes …. Yet Americans rave about the place, as they do the awful Philippines …and Columbia ! .zero comparison with Thailand or even dull but safe Malaysia…..yeah you got that right in spades????????

[TropicalGuy]

2 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

This attitude is an offshoot of the old Thai, custom of “when business is bad, raise prices”.  As usual, those who are least qualified to solve problems are the ones appointed to deal with them. There’s also the “blame the farang” mentality, which is a variation on a theme that has worked very well for a certain American politician. Find a scapegoat and the public will flock to your door.

Orange Man Bad…. again is it ? Save It for another topic…. nothing to do with Thai tourism ..????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/4/2022 at 3:29 PM, newnative said:

Pity Pattaya did not use the quiet covid years to construct the planned tunnel under North Pattaya Road--or an overpass.  

I trust no one is surprised at that.

Mind you, it's not just a Thai failing. Seems pretty universal to me.

[thaibeachlovers]

55 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

Too many other places for westerners to go now. I am here now. And am enjoying myself. But, I would never come here to live. Pristine beaches of Mexico and South America.  Beautiful jungles and nature. Just no comparison what so ever.  There is absolutely nothing here anymore that you cannot get 10 fold elsewhere.

IMHO only ones coming here and thinking it is paradise are the poor and uneducated.

Find a better place with the same availablity of attractive young women at the same price and I'm sure the folk will flock there instead.

I never though Thailand was "paradise" in reality, given the broken infrastructure and general chaos, but it was paradise in comparison to any other country I'd been to, of which there have been many.

[BritManToo]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I never though Thailand was "paradise" in reality, given the broken infrastructure and general chaos, but it was paradise in comparison to any other country I'd been to, of which there have been many.

Not sure about your 'broken infrastructure' comment.

Power supply is worse in Germany and the USA (this winter will be fun) 

Internet is way better than the UK.

No earthquakes.

 

Maybe you have it better in NZ?

[JimTripper]

somebody please help me...

Edited September 6, 2022 by JimTripper

[JimTripper]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:56 PM, chalawaan said:

This is absolutely correct! Missus former husband was a Thais/US citizen. Old school, had to "impress" immigration by departing (no problem) then returning on US passport. Well, the guacamole dip hit the fan then! Banged up for hours and paid a steep fine for his pains. 

ALL countries require citizens to enter and leave with their native passports. No exceptions. 

How would they know you were a citizen if you presented a foreign passport when exiting?

[billd766]

On 9/1/2022 at 1:25 PM, John Drake said:

OTOH there is the possibility that those with the choice will close down their homes in cold weather countries and save money on heating by relocating to Thailand (or similar warm weather place) for three months or more.

That is a possibility if they are retired/pensioners and don't need to work, and they have enough money left to fly to Thailand and live here for 3 or 4 months. But they would have to own their own house/apartment and still have to pay standing charges for water, electricity and gas and to pay all the other monthly charges at home. They will also need to leave the heating on low just to keep the water pipes from freezing and having to pay large amounts to plumbers, plasterers etc to repair the damage.

Edited September 6, 2022 by billd766
Added extra text

[roskruge]

"How would they know you were a citizen if you presented a foreign passport when exiting? "

 

That may be the case with most European origin citizens - but a Thai would defiantly know another Thai at the Immigration Check Point.

[placeholder]

One huge flaw in this analysis is the fact that the Chinese have pretty much forbidden their citizens to travel abroad. In 2019 12 million Chinese visited Thailand. So subtract 12 million from 40 million and that's 28 million. In addition, the more distant the destination, the further in advance it will be planned. France is easily accessible to other Europeans. Also, the high season for Thailand is more or less from October through March.  Not so in the case of France., Covid regulations were relaxed too late to affect that seasonal influx. All, in all, a highly dubious piece of journalism. How are bookings looking for October and beyond is more pertinent.

[spidermike007]

Correct. Thailand has been subjected to the Prayuth Decimation. The once might tiger of SE Asia has been reduced to a sickly alley cat, scrounging for crumbs. This could have been prevented, had they not imposed draconian and highly selective shutdowns, and waited far too long to open the nation back up to tourism. Sheer cowardice, combined with gross mismanagement and malfeasance is to blame. 

[BigStar]

18 hours ago, rabang said:

It is good to know masks are are not de facto mandatory despite locals wearing them religiously, even if the faceless people create an unpleasant vibe.

In Pattaya a large percentage of the old farang would look better and give off a pleasanter vibe if they simply wore one of the face diapers for aesthetic reasons.

 

A Dunning-Kruger effect in attractiveness seems in operation among many of our posters and probably helps explain why, to their bafflement, women didn't enjoy sex with them. Unattractive people tend to be unaware of their unattractiveness, and attractive people underestimate their attractiveness.

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sjop.12631

 

 

[GinBoy2]

So lets take out the Chinese, the CCP is still clinging to its zero Covid policy, so they ain't traveling for a least another year.

If everything I read is true, the Brits and Europeans are looking forward to a winter of soaring energy prices just to heat their homes. I wonder how many of them are planing to vacation in Thailand rather than heat their homes?

For North Americans just based on the travel time it's always been a bit of a secondary vacation destination.

 

For we're back to the Indians! 

 

Good Luck with that to boost revenues

[BarraMarra]

6 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Too many other places for westerners to go now. I am here now. And am enjoying myself. But, I would never come here to live. Pristine beaches of Mexico and South America.  Beautiful jungles and nature. Just no comparison what so ever.  There is absolutely nothing here anymore that you cannot get 10 fold elsewhere.

IMHO only ones coming here and thinking it is paradise are the poor and uneducated.

So GKrrd what category are you ? Poor or Uneducated? If it's that bad why did you go to Thailand? You could have gone to Mexico or South America.  

[Orinoco]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

That is a possibility if they are retired/pensioners and don't need to work, and they have enough money left to fly to Thailand and live here for 3 or 4 months. But they would have to own their own house/apartment and still have to pay standing charges for water, electricity and gas and to pay all the other monthly charges at home. They will also need to leave the heating on low just to keep the water pipes from freezing and having to pay large amounts to plumbers, plasterers etc to repair the damage.

Also insurance is a big one now days.

They don't like an empty home.

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

So lets take out the Chinese, the CCP is still clinging to its zero Covid policy, so they ain't traveling for a least another year.

If everything I read is true, the Brits and Europeans are looking forward to a winter of soaring energy prices just to heat their homes. I wonder how many of them are planing to vacation in Thailand rather than heat their homes?

For North Americans just based on the travel time it's always been a bit of a secondary vacation destination.

 

For we're back to the Indians! 

 

Good Luck with that to boost revenues

Actually, what they save on heating their homes when they are away might go a long ways towards financing their vacation. The yearly price cap for January 2023 is predicted to go to almost  £5000. Given that a disproportionate amount of that will be consumed in the winter months, that would well ease the net cost of a thai vacation.

[GinBoy2]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, what they save on heating their homes when they are away might go a long ways towards financing their vacation. The yearly price cap for January 2023 is predicted to go to almost  £5000. Given that a disproportionate amount of that will be consumed in the winter months, that would well ease the net cost of a thai vacation.

But equally unless you are retired and can basically decamp to Thailand for the winter, for a normal family it'll be at best a couple of weeks turning the heat off.

 

I don't think that equation works out so well, especially given the price of airfares right now

[Nickelbeer]

55 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

So lets take out the Chinese, the CCP is still clinging to its zero Covid policy, so they ain't traveling for a least another year.

If everything I read is true, the Brits and Europeans are looking forward to a winter of soaring energy prices just to heat their homes. I wonder how many of them are planing to vacation in Thailand rather than heat their homes?

For North Americans just based on the travel time it's always been a bit of a secondary vacation destination.

 

For we're back to the Indians! 

 

Good Luck with that to boost revenues

Unlike the Chinese, Indians are pleasant enough but they don’t throw around a lot of cash.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

Unlike the Chinese, Indians are pleasant enough but they don’t throw around a lot of cash.

Well, actually neither do the Chinese. At least those who come on tours. Which is most of them.

[BigStar]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, actually neither do the Chinese. At least those who come on tours. Which is most of them.

One of those cherished TAT: ANF myths that refuses to die. For years now the majority have been independent travelers and that trend looks upward.

 

An estimated 60 percent of all Chinese travelers prefer to go abroad without a tour group, which is a welcome development for Hansar—which focuses exclusively on visitors not in tour groups.

     --https://jingdaily.com/independent-chinese-travelers-go-boutique-in-bangkok/

 

Of those surveyed, 71 percent would like to travel to Thailand and, in a notable shift from the Chinese group travel which had dominated the country’s inbound market in the past decade, 83 percent would choose independent travel versus group tours.

     --https://skift.com/2020/04/24/thailand-tourism-looks-to-china-to-start-down-path-for-pandemic-rebound/

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, BigStar said:

One of those cherished TAT: ANF myths that refuses to die. For years now the majority have been independent travelers and that trend looks upward.

 

An estimated 60 percent of all Chinese travelers prefer to go abroad without a tour group, which is a welcome development for Hansar—which focuses exclusively on visitors not in tour groups.

     --https://jingdaily.com/independent-chinese-travelers-go-boutique-in-bangkok/

 

Of those surveyed, 71 percent would like to travel to Thailand and, in a notable shift from the Chinese group travel which had dominated the country’s inbound market in the past decade, 83 percent would choose independent travel versus group tours.

     --https://skift.com/2020/04/24/thailand-tourism-looks-to-china-to-start-down-path-for-pandemic-rebound/

Thanks for the possible correction.

The first link offers no independent support for that 60% claim.

The second report is based on a survey of Chinese people living in first tier cities. I don't know what percentage of Chinese tourists come from first tier cities.

So, it may well be true. I'm sure that as time goes by the percentage of independent Chinese travelers will increase sharply. Still, I do recall that the Thai govt attempted a crackdown on Zero Dollar Tours from China.