FBI found more than 11,000 government records at Trump's Florida home

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I must have missed the news that Trump has been charged for stealing nuclear secrets? I mean you say the FBI knew what they were looking for, it would have taken an hour max to find what they knew they were looking for in the documents seized when they raided Trumps house. Simple.

 But as we know that is not what happened. And judging by the underhand behavior by the FBI since they spied on his campaign after doctoring evidence to do so any accusations against President Trump should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

 

Oh you have a conspiracy theory.

 

Who would have guessed?!

[Walker88]

The 'special master' is a dangerous stalling ploy, but in the end will not save 45's bloated behind. All the special master allows is that docs can be reviewed to see if there is anything that would fall under the category of attorney-client privilege.

 

Highly classified docs would never fall under that privilege. Never. There are no attorneys involved in classified docs.

 

Unfortunately, allowing this special master will damage US national security. Besides granting access to yet more people, it will be made clear that the docs 45 stole had TS/SCI and HCS markings. That means the docs contained 'sources and methods' or identities of clandestine sources. Those sources are now at risk. (Already a number of clandestine sources have been rolled up since 45 left office with those classified docs, which may or may not be a coincidence.)

 

To make it even worse, POTENTIAL clandestine assets---which could be anyone from a close contact of a major foreign leader like putin or xi, or it could be someone close to senior terrorist leaders---will now know that a self-serving, reckless, irresponsible ex-POTUS could jeopardize their lives or the lives of their families by revealing identities. They will cease to cooperate with US intel.

 

No big deal, right?  Say that when the next hijacked plane hits a major building, or a dirty bomb goes off in some major metropolitan area. Such attacks have been thwarted by the intel gleaned from clandestine assets. Now it will be much more difficult to stop these kind of attacks.

 

Perhaps so long as such attacks hit MaL or a CPAC convention or 45 rally, I guess no harm done. The cult and its leader can reap what they sow.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Walker88

[SunnyinBangrak]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh you have a conspiracy theory.

 

Who would have guessed?!

Sorry Chomper it is confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory. You know this already don't you. Why call something we all know to be true as a conspiracy theory? We are bound by the forum rules to not knowingly lie and misrepresent situations.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-pleads-guilty/2020/08/19/6c0dec54-e0a0-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

[Bkk Brian]

31 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I must have missed the news that Trump has been charged for stealing nuclear secrets? I mean you say the FBI knew what they were looking for, it would have taken an hour max to find what they knew they were looking for in the documents seized when they raided Trumps house. Simple.

 But as we know that is not what happened. And judging by the underhand behavior by the FBI since they spied on his campaign after doctoring evidence to do so any accusations against President Trump should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

 

Did you view the cctv footage to see why it took longer than an hour? Trump did but he's not released it.

[LosLobo]

44 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Sorry Chomper it is confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory. You know this already don't you. Why call something we all know to be true as a conspiracy theory? We are bound by the forum rules to not knowingly lie and misrepresent situations.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-pleads-guilty/2020/08/19/6c0dec54-e0a0-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

"Confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory"?

 

Possibly only in an alternate reality. 

You still do not understand "overtaken by recent events" and the recent redacted DOJ report proving Barr lied about the Mueller Report.

Mueller said Trump was guilty of obstruction and there was evidence that he also colluded with Russia. Manafort after lying to Mueller about collusion recently admitted it. Therefore the FBI was obviously justified in it's probe of the Trump Campaign.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by LosLobo

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Sorry Chomper it is confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory. You know this already don't you. Why call something we all know to be true as a conspiracy theory? We are bound by the forum rules to not knowingly lie and misrepresent situations.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-pleads-guilty/2020/08/19/6c0dec54-e0a0-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

This was the most minor infraction possible by a line lawyer. A line lawyer is someone at the very bottom of the hierarchical heap. They do not set policy. nor do they lead investigations. The infraction was uncovered by the Inspector General of the Justice Dept who sent all his findings along to John Durham for prosecution. To date, it is the only successful prosecution by Durham.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

"Confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory"?

 

Possibly only in an alternate reality. 

You still do not understand "overtaken by recent events" and the recent redacted DOJ report proving Barr lied about the Mueller Report.

Mueller said Trump was guilty of obstruction and there was evidence to suggest he colluded with Russia. Manafort admitted collusion. Therefore the FBI was obviously justified in it's probe of the Trump Campaign.

 

Just to add to that. A federal judge openly castigated Barr for his misrepresentation of the Mueller report. 

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Sorry Chomper it is confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory. You know this already don't you. Why call something we all know to be true as a conspiracy theory? We are bound by the forum rules to not knowingly lie and misrepresent situations.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-pleads-guilty/2020/08/19/6c0dec54-e0a0-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

Clinesmith, he’s the guy that doesn’t work at the FBI anymore.

 

Is that correct?

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

The 'special master' is a dangerous stalling ploy, but in the end will not save 45's bloated behind. All the special master allows is that docs can be reviewed to see if there is anything that would fall under the category of attorney-client privilege.

 

Highly classified docs would never fall under that privilege. Never. There are no attorneys involved in classified docs.

 

Unfortunately, allowing this special master will damage US national security. Besides granting access to yet more people, it will be made clear that the docs 45 stole had TS/SCI and HCS markings. That means the docs contained 'sources and methods' or identities of clandestine sources. Those sources are now at risk. (Already a number of clandestine sources have been rolled up since 45 left office with those classified docs, which may or may not be a coincidence.)

 

To make it even worse, POTENTIAL clandestine assets---which could be anyone from a close contact of a major foreign leader like putin or xi, or it could be someone close to senior terrorist leaders---will now know that a self-serving, reckless, irresponsible ex-POTUS could jeopardize their lives or the lives of their families by revealing identities. They will cease to cooperate with US intel.

 

No big deal, right?  Say that when the next hijacked plane hits a major building, or a dirty bomb goes off in some major metropolitan area. Such attacks have been thwarted by the intel gleaned from clandestine assets. Now it will be much more difficult to stop these kind of attacks.

 

Perhaps so long as such attacks hit MaL or a CPAC convention or 45 rally, I guess no harm done. The cult and its leader can reap what they sow.

This is the real issue.

 

It’s terrifying to consider the very likely threats Trump has unleashed.

 

It’s also why non of Trump’s supporters and apologists want to go near it.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

38 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Sorry Chomper it is confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory. You know this already don't you. Why call something we all know to be true as a conspiracy theory? We are bound by the forum rules to not knowingly lie and misrepresent situations.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-pleads-guilty/2020/08/19/6c0dec54-e0a0-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

Ok that actually happened but really a non event. The Justice Department inspector general failed to establish that political considerations played a role in Clinesmith's action. Judge Boasberg concurred and gave the sentencing as part of his routine duties of 12 months probabtion and 400 hours communty service. LOL. You made it sound much more serious as a loyal Maga supporter does. 

[heybruce]

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Possibly is not factual, It's a possibility or an opinion.

It did find that it could not say that Trump was guilty of criminal conspiracy, ergo not guilty as not found guilty in a court of law. Presumption of innocence and all that.

The post was to correct your claim that "the Russia thing was pretty much dismissed as fake".  Did you note the words from your own source "It also found that Russia had interfered in the election"  The 'It' refers to the Mueller investigation report Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election.

[candide]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Far as I remember, the Russia thing was pretty much dismissed as fake, based on the Steele invention. Certainly, no charges were aid against Trump based on it. Is the BBC a satisfactory source?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59168626

In 2019, the Mueller investigation concluded that it could not determine any criminal conspiracy between Moscow and the Trump campaign.

 

This is deja vu, given we were being constantly told he was guilty, and going to jail back then.

Two fake news in one post!

No, it was not dismissed as fake. The aim was to find out if there was a Russian interference and it established that there was a Russian interference. The IG investigation and the Durham investigation also showed the Russia probe was not caused by the Steele report.

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

How is it hard for you to understand what should be obvious to anyone but a child?

 

The docs were CLASSIFIED. That means they are not just available anywhere or online. The LAW (law is a quaint concept now seemingly known only to non magats) states that classified docs must be kept in a secure location or SCIF, unless a trail of authorizations (non verbal and certainly not grandfathered) allows them to be removed for some specific and stated official purpose. Mere existence of docs outside of a SCIF or lacking the paper trail of authorization is a felony.

 

Get it?

Everyone is just spitballing what Trump had. You included. To call them Classified doesn't really mean much. Weather reports are labeled Confidential just as an example.

 

If Trump was truly trying to steal secrets he'd merely take pics of documents. But, sadly the dems are so fueled by hatred and fear of Trump they don't think rationally. As is obvious by the name calling here.

 

I find your condescending, name calling remarks highly humorous. 

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Everyone is just spitballing what Trump had. You included. To call them Classified doesn't really mean much. Weather reports are labeled Confidential just as an example.

 

If Trump was truly trying to steal secrets he'd merely take pics of documents. But, sadly the dems are so fueled by hatred and fear of Trump they don't think rationally. As is obvious by the name calling here.

 

I find your condescending, name calling remarks highly humorous. 

To be clear:  You're asking why Trump simply packed the documents made available to him while he was President and shipped them to Mar-a-Lago with his stuff, versus taking the difficult, time-consuming and suspicious approach of taking a picture of every page of classified he wanted?

 

This is a good example of a question answering itself.

[candide]

33 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Everyone is just spitballing what Trump had. You included. To call them Classified doesn't really mean much. Weather reports are labeled Confidential just as an example.

 

If Trump was truly trying to steal secrets he'd merely take pics of documents. But, sadly the dems are so fueled by hatred and fear of Trump they don't think rationally. As is obvious by the name calling here.

 

I find your condescending, name calling remarks highly humorous. 

You may have a point about his intent if it were only about stealing secrets. Knowing Trump, he may well have been motivated by mere stupidity!

 

However, in this case, it's not only about secrets, it's about documents.

 

Technically, when you take something and refuse to give it back (and also state you don't have it), isn't it considered as stealing?

 

He did know he had them, he did refuse to give them back, and he did hide them. That shows intent to steal (albeit stupidly).

 

The fact that some of these documents were secret is an aggravating factor, as they were not stored in a safe location.

Edited September 7, 2022 by candide

[EVENKEEL]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

To be clear:  You're asking why Trump simply packed the documents made available to him while he was President and shipped them to Mar-a-Lago with his stuff, versus taking the difficult, time-consuming and suspicious approach of taking a picture of every page of classified he wanted?

 

This is a good example of a question answering itself.

We'll see, but I still contend that if Trump was going into the spy business he would have taken pics vs taking many, many boxes of most likely non TS docs. I wouldn't label taking screen shots as time consuming and certainly not suspicious when alone.

 

 

[DezLez]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

We'll see, but I still contend that if Trump was going into the spy business he would have taken pics vs taking many, many boxes of most likely non TS docs. I wouldn't label taking screen shots as time consuming and certainly not suspicious when alone.

 

 

Trump probably assumes that originals fetch more than copies!

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, DezLez said:

Trump probably assumes that originals fetch more than copies!

Beat me to it.  As any teenager will tell you, you'll get a lot further with a stolen ID in hand than with a picture of one.

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Everyone is just spitballing what Trump had. You included. To call them Classified doesn't really mean much. Weather reports are labeled Confidential just as an example.

 

If Trump was truly trying to steal secrets he'd merely take pics of documents. But, sadly the dems are so fueled by hatred and fear of Trump they don't think rationally. As is obvious by the name calling here.

 

I find your condescending, name calling remarks highly humorous. 

No spitballing. The list that was released noted TS/SCI and HCS classifications.  Those are not 'weather reports'.

 

Those docs contain 'sources and methods' and reveal identities of clandestine assets and operations. There is ZERO earthly reason for 45 to have those. That he subsequently lied about 'returning everything' shows bad faith and intent to deceive. No spitballing there, either.

 

The cult seems to have adopted 15th Century Papism about their messiah 45, that he is infallible.

 

He is a self-serving, mendacious, treasonous common criminal. His recklessness jeopardizes valuable clandestine assets who do such things as forward intel on hostile powers' military capabilities and intentions, or intel on planned terrorist operations against the homeland or US targets. That some will be identified, while other potential assets will refrain from cooperating with CIA out of fear of exposure by the clown that is 45, represents threats to US national security.

 

Personally, I just hope if a terrorist attack comes, it only takes out members of the cult and their leader. No harm done.

[DezLez]

11 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

He is a self-serving, mendacious, treasonous common criminal.

And that was also true before he became President!

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, DezLez said:

And that was also true before he became President!

and yet he still became president!

It always comes down to the choice between Trump and HRC, and IMO millions were voting against her, rather than for him. IMO he was a protest vote against the Washington establishment.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Personally, I just hope if a terrorist attack comes, it only takes out members of the cult and their leader. No harm done.

That would be millions of people then! Isn't that OTT harsh?

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and yet he still became president!

It always comes down to the choice between Trump and HRC, and IMO millions were voting against her, rather than for him. IMO he was a protest vote against the Washington establishment.

Both were unpopular choice. HRC was leading as poills indicated and according to RealClearPolitics showed a clear lead of 6 points. It was the FBI's badly time announcement of Clinton's email investigation that move the ground. FBI should follow that precedent and moved quickly to indict Trump and not bother with mid-term political consideration. Lock him up even if he is a former President for his egregious crimes to the country. 

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Both were unpopular choice. HRC was leading as poills indicated and according to RealClearPolitics showed a clear lead of 6 points. It was the FBI's badly time announcement of Clinton's email investigation that move the ground. FBI should follow that precedent and moved quickly to indict Trump and not bother with mid-term political consideration. Lock him up even if he is a former President for his egregious crimes to the country. 

I'm happy to see that you and I are on the same page when it comes to charging him- the sooner the better, but one should not assume he'll be convicted.

[p414]

On 9/3/2022 at 2:14 PM, ozimoron said:

But Hilary's email server! Those empty folders are going to be a huge problem for Trump if he can't account for the documents.

were they empty before the F.B.I  arrived?

[Eric Loh]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm happy to see that you and I are on the same page when it comes to charging him- the sooner the better, but one should not assume he'll be convicted.

Justice seem to working on a different gear when it comes to the former President. He is not above the law and others have been dealt with swiftly as regards to misuse of classified documents. He has gone beyond classified documents with the discovery of documents on nuclear capabilites and material on a foreign country's nuclear capabilities. He is putting the world at risk in so many ways. He should be charged but more importantly that he should never ever be the President. Another term will be very dark for USA and the world. 

 

voanews.com/a/fbi-justice-department-routinely-prosecute-misuse-of-classified-documents/6694887.html

Edited September 8, 2022 by Eric Loh
wrong word

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That would be millions of people then! Isn't that OTT harsh?

At this point, the cult represents a greater threat to the security of the US than any terrorist group.

 

It was the cult that tried to overthrow the government on 6 Jan.

 

It is the cult that threatens FBI agents, DoJ officials and even election officials.

 

It is the cult barking about 'civil war'.

 

We take out minor members of terrorist organizations living in the tribal regions of Pakistan, thousands of miles away from the US. They are unlikely ever to do much harm to the US homeland, while the cult is now a proven threat. 45 is an obvious threat to both US national security and the continuation of our democracy. He should, and likely will, die in jail.

 

 

[placeholder]

On 9/7/2022 at 9:52 AM, SunnyinBangrak said:

Sorry Chomper it is confirmed and well known fact not conspiracy theory. You know this already don't you. Why call something we all know to be true as a conspiracy theory? We are bound by the forum rules to not knowingly lie and misrepresent situations.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/kevin-clinesmith-fbi-pleads-guilty/2020/08/19/6c0dec54-e0a0-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html

Also, do you understand that a conspiracy has to involve more than one person? There is absolutely no evidence that Clinesmith didn't act alone.

[Walker88]

I can come to no other conclusion except that the cult lacks the intelligence to even begin to understand the threat 45 represents to the US, its national security, and its very form of govt.

 

It is not only clandestine assets who will be hesitant in the future to work with US intel and provide what is often life-saving intel.

 

Now, even our allies will be much less willing to share intel with the US. They know that a reckless, irresponsible and self-serving clown like 45 is either unbelievably cavalier with extremely sensitive material, or else is actually using it for personal financial gain. There is simply no good reason he would steal and hide, then lie about those docs. Only the woefully naive would not consider the worst case scenario.

 

Foreign allies now know the US cannot be trusted. They will be hesitant from now on, and that will hurt the US. The damage 45 has caused is impossible to measure, but it is severe. The world also sees that there is still a sizable cult who supports the bozo no matter how reckless or idiotic he acts.

[candide]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and yet he still became president!

It always comes down to the choice between Trump and HRC, and IMO millions were voting against her, rather than for him. IMO he was a protest vote against the Washington establishment.

It could be.it also could be that she won the popular vote because some people people voted against Trump.