Gaining custody of Thai Child

[glockdoc]

Before the trolls go crazy, please only respond if you have personally had experience with this.  I am well aware of all the mistakes I have made along the way. 

 

Now that that is out of the way........

 

11 yrs after taking the girl out of the bar, the girl decided to go back to the bar. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

 

We are not legally married on paper.

 

Anyway, we have a 7 yr old child together that lives with me as well as HER 17 yr old that chose to live with me over Mom.  Of course the house I have been paying for for the last 10 yrs is in her name, paid for truck is in her name. 

 

I have had 1 too many " it's all in my name I will have the police kick you out " conversations so I am seeking help from someone that has gained custody of their Thai child from the mother.  I know I basically have ZERO rights, but hey, Mom is just a bar girl that walked out on her family.

 

I understand she is right and she can take it all, however, she has zero means to fight me in court other that " I am Thai, he is not ". 

 

So, has anyone here successfully gained custody of their child and what attorney did you use.  Feel free to comment below or PM me.  

 

I have been here long enough to not trust a Thai attorney just because they "say so". I also understand it is a long shot to even attempt to take a Thai child from their mother, however, it is in the child's best interest that I am the sole decison maker. 

 

My hope was that her mother would be an adult about our situation and be interested in what is best for the kids, but the second she found out I have a girlfriend the sh*tshow started. Never mind she walked out to go bang strangers for money....I am the bad guy. 

 

If I decide to go this route I have all my transfers showing I transferred the money to pay for the house and truck. I will ask the judge for everything and settle for sole custody of my daughter.  I have no desire to keep her from her mother or her mother from her or to take her back to live in the US, but I want legal authority over my kiddo. 

 

Thanks in advance to all that have constructive responses.

[BritManToo]

Not sure custody is a concern with a 17 year old.

They can make their own choices where they live from age 15 up.

 

As for the house, if you have proof of payment and were legally married, it's at least 50% yours. My advice, sit tight and do nothing.

 

I have a 24yo daughter (former wife) and a 13yo daughter (village girl nobody wanted) given to me by their moms.

Unless mom can make money from them, they don't appear to care that much where they live.

Edited September 14, 2022 by BritManToo

[glockdoc]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure custody is a concern with a 17 year old.

They can make their own choices where they live from age 15 up.

 

As for the house, if you have proof of payment and were legally married, it's at least 50% yours. My advice, sit tight and do nothing.

 

I have a 24yo daughter (former wife) and a 13yo daughter (village girl nobody wanted) given to me by their moms.

Unless mom can make money from them, they don't appear to care that much where they live.

Ummm, not the 17 yr old that is HER child, the 7 yr old that is ours.

 

Upadted the post to include we are not married on paper.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, glockdoc said:

Ummm, not the 17 yr old that is HER child, the 7 yr old that is ours.

 

Upadted the post to include we are not married on paper.

Can't see any way for her to stop the 17 yo living with you.

But the 7yo and the house may be a problem as you were never married.

[blackcab]

Moved to the Family and Children forum.

[Kenny202]

Was, still am in a nearly identical situation to you. That bar always seems to be pulling them back. I guess they are always weighing up if they are better off with you or their previous life. I think they go through moments of wanting to live the straight life but IMO once they have been in the sex trade they are to be avoided unless only renting.

 

Definitely feel your pain. Does the mother actually want the child?

You might want to test that out or it is possible she hasn't even considered it herself.

Mine was playing me like a dancing monkey using our child as leverage. They can be absolutely vile heartless creatures. She left of her own accord for about the 15th time, even rented another place.... and that last time I locked the gate and refused to let her back. Her violence and psychotic episodes were just becoming too dangerous. Drove me insane for around 3 months and was always in despair for my sons welfare. She was fronting up at my place all hours of the day and night insisting I give him to her, then 30 minutes later demanding I come and pick him up. Finally I had enough and said ok, I understand legally you can take him whenever you want, but works both ways.....you can't make me come and get him. So you look after him, Ill start making arrangements to go back home. Was all a bluff but she straightened up pretty quick then. I was also not married to my child's mother and the first thing you will need to do (as I did) is apply to the courts through a lawyer to get legal paternity. About 2 months...a bit of paperwork but not the end of the world. If you can provide lots of evidence of being with your wife before and after the pregnancy (photos, documents perhaps her visiting your country...those sorts of things) It can make things a bit easier. I was lucky in that my son is nearly identical to me and very clearly foreign and already had Australian citizenship by decent which I arranged for him when he was born. My sons mother did support it and come to child services for an interview so not sure if you will be that lucky and get your girls support. You will need a lawyer, from memory cost around 25k but I remember being quoted a lot more than that. Up to 100k. Anyway the lawyer will advise best way to proceed. If all else fails the judge may ask for DNA testing which is no big deal but a bit more expense. Once you get the court order you have to lodge it at the Amphur. I believe if the child is 7yrs plus you can simply go to the Amphur...the child points at you and says you are their father and that's it. Not sure how easy it would be without the mothers consent though. Again a lawyer will guide you. If you can rather than find a lawyer cold better off getting a recommendation off someone. Maybe if you are on Facebook a local expat group? This is only the first step by the way. Applying for custody is next and that will depend on if she supports it or fights it. Anything you have messages, photos, proof of her non fitness of a parent will be required. I went down the custody route a few months back, started the process with a lawyer. Quoted me a price and a couple of weeks later tripled it which I figured wasn't a good sign and I told her to forget about it. Anyway enough for tonight. Feel free to PM me if you need more information or you just need someone to talk to.  

[KhunLA]

Never going to happen, even with the mother's permission.   I tried, and (FS) family services told me it will never happen.  They were the people that had to approve it.  Actually talked with 'the' person with that authority.

 

Told them a lawyer advised me possible, and FS advised, nothing but a scam.  You'll lose locally, and they'll want to file an appeal to BKK, and you'll lose again.  Only the lawyer will win. 

 

Unless you find a corrupt judge with deep pocket that you can fill.

 

Can't be done due to human trafficking laws.  This was about 19 yrs ago.  

[kwonitoy]

I found the Thai Family Courts System to be extremely fair

You'll hear all kinds of falang can't win etc, you can if you just use the system correctly.

Limit your interactions with her, don't react to her anger

Document everything, get a good lawyer, if your in Issan DM me for a English speaking Thai lawyer in Udon Thani.

I got full Parental Powers granted to me in 2013 in Sahkon Nahkon

My case is not the norm as my ex-wife was in prison for dealing ya-ba so it was a clear cut case of her incompetence as a mother.

But I travelled and now am moved out of Thailand and all times my custody paperwork was scrutinized at the airport and found to be in order.

 

Funny thing is she contested our divorce while in prison, looking for a payday, she got nothing

But she did nothing about my custody proceedings.

Speaks volumes about her priorities.

[Kenny202]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Never going to happen, even with the mother's permission.   I tried, and (FS) family services told me it will never happen.  They were the people that had to approve it.  Actually talked with 'the' person with that authority.

 

Told them a lawyer advised me possible, and FS advised, nothing but a scam.  You'll lose locally, and they'll want to file an appeal to BKK, and you'll lose again.  Only the lawyer will win. 

 

Unless you find a corrupt judge with deep pocket that you can fill.

 

Can't be done due to human trafficking laws.  This was about 19 yrs ago.  

You shouldn't be dishing out negative advice like that particularly when your experience is 19 years old. Kids welfare at stake here and based on your post the guy could possibly just give up. I agree re lawyer will tell you anything hence best to get a first hand recommendation. I also believe the Thai family courts a lot fairer now and rule in the nest interests of the child.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kenny202

[KhunLA]

53 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

You shouldn't be dishing out negative advice like that particularly when your experience is 19 years old. Kids welfare at stake here and based on your post the guy could possibly just give up. I agree re lawyer will tell you anything hence best to get a first hand recommendation. I also believe the Thai family courts a lot fairer now and rule in the nest interests of the child.

He asked for 1st hand, I gave him my 1st hand experience, and DID note, it WAS 19 yrs ago, so hopefully, things may have loosened up a bit, and his luck is better than mine.

 

Irrelevant now as daughter is 23, and we now changed our names to my wife's family name.  She wants nothing to do with her roots.  Her parents were MIA, and grandparents too poor to provide a proper education.

 

I raised her from about 1 yr old, and even had visa for support of 'Thai national' for a couple years, till I hit 50, and did the ret. visa.

 

That was actually easy, and simply took an affidavit from the mother, (father MIA), giving me parental right to raise and make all decisions of her upbringing.   

 

Even got here a PP, and took her out of the country, since we both had same last name then, her families, no questions asked at immigrations out/in.

 

Even with that, FS suggested me to not waste my time & money attempting to adopt.  From the man who would approve or deny application to.

 

Hopefully he'll have better luck, since blood relative, but as long as mother alive & not incarcerated (as above's mango/papaya story), and will obviously object, as her only stronghold on his money, then unfortunately, IMHO, no chance in hell, full custody would be approved.

 

Do hope I'm completely wrong.

Edited September 15, 2022 by KhunLA

[thailand49]

On 9/15/2022 at 5:28 AM, kwonitoy said:

I found the Thai Family Courts System to be extremely fair

You'll hear all kinds of falang can't win etc, you can if you just use the system correctly.

Limit your interactions with her, don't react to her anger

Document everything, get a good lawyer, if your in Issan DM me for a English speaking Thai lawyer in Udon Thani.

I got full Parental Powers granted to me in 2013 in Sahkon Nahkon

My case is not the norm as my ex-wife was in prison for dealing ya-ba so it was a clear cut case of her incompetence as a mother.

But I travelled and now am moved out of Thailand and all times my custody paperwork was scrutinized at the airport and found to be in order.

 

Funny thing is she contested our divorce while in prison, looking for a payday, she got nothing

But she did nothing about my custody proceedings.

Speaks volumes about her priorities.

This is so true get a good lawyer and going cheap isn't helping. Cheap gets you nothing in fact will cost more in the long run.  If this guy doesn't contact you for that lawyer he is a fool. 

In general, unless she is middle class and up she will not have the funds to challenge that is my experience.

[Kenny202]

47 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

This is so true get a good lawyer and going cheap isn't helping. Cheap gets you nothing in fact will cost more in the long run.  If this guy doesn't contact you for that lawyer he is a fool. 

In general, unless she is middle class and up she will not have the funds to challenge that is my experience.

Typica bad TV rhetorical advice from someone who doesn't know the answer but wants to chime in with a generic reply that says nothing but seemingly looks like oneself is in the "know".

 

There is cheap and there is rip off. It is only cheap if they are quoting you ridiculously under the reasonable market rate...and the starting price for a custody case will be between 25-50k if you were Thai .....and the case was clear cut and not contested. If your starting price is 200k god knows what the final price will be if she contests it. My experience ....first filing a paternity case, to legally state you are the father.......(which you will need to do first if you aren't married) was the lawyer initially told us 80k. When we challenged him on this he then dropped the price to 15k. His reasoning was 80-100k was the going rate for foreigners in our city but he'll do for 15k but don't tell anyone! Fairly simple process....a couple of interviews and a brief court appearance. Recently engaged a different lawyer to start a full custody case. They asked us what we paid for the paternity case and we told them, and they said as we paid 15k for the paternity case they would have to also do the custody case for 15k as it was nearly an identical process, "but don't tell anyone" lol. Again it would have only been that price if it were clear cut and no contest or no show. 

 

A few things you need to consider.....based a little on what the lawyer tells you and a lot on your own assessment is what do you think your chances of her not contesting it and also if she did contest it what are your chances of winning and how deep are your pockets. Many lawyers (not all) here in my experience will always tell you to proceed irrespective of what your chances are. For example you start the ball rolling, she does contest it and all of a sudden you are going to be up for a long and protracted court case and       200-500k that you may not have. Not fully sure how that would play out but should you pull out you may actually put her in a position where she gets custody and everything backfire on you. You have to assess what she may do (as if assessing anything logically with a Thai woman is possible). I believe what they do is send her a letter of notification to the address on her Tabien Baan....if she doesn't respond or attend the court date you will automatically be awarded custody. not sure if you mentioned in your OP how old the children are and if you are legally married ....and if you are not legally married  you are not the legal father, even if your name is on the birth certificate. Also depending on the age of the children they will be interviewed by child services and their wishes / comments will have a large bearing on the outcome of the case.

 

If at all possible, you are much better getting her onside and onboard.....maybe put it to her in a way where custody to you is somehow to her benefit. Maybe she doesn't actually want to get stuck with the kids and may change her attitude if she thinks you are going to bail and leave the country and kids to her. I had a very similar experience where the mother of my child didn't really want the child but was using him to manipulate me. Once I called her bluff the whole situation changed. I was told by one lawyer though that if you are going to claim custody you need some rock solid proof of neglect / abuse etc and a bit of hearsay or a few messages etc wont cut it, or perhaps she has been away a long period of time (years) and the kids have been in your care 100%. You will probably need one or two witnesses from your actual Moo Baan to vouch for you and confirm your story re length of absence of your wife etc. You of course will also have to prove yourself fit to have children in your care....ie no past criminal record, proof of financial position....and not sure how old you are but if you are elderly may be a mark against you. I do agree the family courts here seem to be fair and act in the interests of the kids usually but at the end of the day will be up to the judge.  Best of luck to you!

Edited September 19, 2022 by Kenny202

[thailand49]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Typica bad TV rhetorical advice from someone who doesn't know the answer but wants to chime in with a generic reply that says nothing but seemingly looks like oneself is in the "know".

 

There is cheap and there is rip off. It is only cheap if they are quoting you ridiculously under the reasonable market rate...and the starting price for a custody case will be between 25-50k if you were Thai .....and the case was clear cut and not contested. If your starting price is 200k god knows what the final price will be if she contests it. My experience ....first filing a paternity case, to legally state you are the father.......(which you will need to do first if you aren't married) was the lawyer initially told us 80k. When we challenged him on this he then dropped the price to 15k. His reasoning was 80-100k was the going rate for foreigners in our city but he'll do for 15k but don't tell anyone! Fairly simple process....a couple of interviews and a brief court appearance. Recently engaged a different lawyer to start a full custody case. They asked us what we paid for the paternity case and we told them, and they said as we paid 15k for the paternity case they would have to also do the custody case for 15k as it was nearly an identical process, "but don't tell anyone" lol. Again it would have only been that price if it were clear cut and no contest or no show. 

 

A few things you need to consider.....based a little on what the lawyer tells you and a lot on your own assessment is what do you think your chances of her not contesting it and also if she did contest it what are your chances of winning and how deep are your pockets. Many lawyers (not all) here in my experience will always tell you to proceed irrespective of what your chances are. For example you start the ball rolling, she does contest it and all of a sudden you are going to be up for a long and protracted court case and       200-500k that you may not have. Not fully sure how that would play out but should you pull out you may actually put her in a position where she gets custody and everything backfire on you. You have to assess what she may do (as if assessing anything logically with a Thai woman is possible). I believe what they do is send her a letter of notification to the address on her Tabien Baan....if she doesn't respond or attend the court date you will automatically be awarded custody. not sure if you mentioned in your OP how old the children are and if you are legally married ....and if you are not legally married  you are not the legal father, even if your name is on the birth certificate. Also depending on the age of the children they will be interviewed by child services and their wishes / comments will have a large bearing on the outcome of the case.

 

If at all possible, you are much better getting her onside and onboard.....maybe put it to her in a way where custody to you is somehow to her benefit. Maybe she doesn't actually want to get stuck with the kids and may change her attitude if she thinks you are going to bail and leave the country and kids to her. I had a very similar experience where the mother of my child didn't really want the child but was using him to manipulate me. Once I called her bluff the whole situation changed. I was told by one lawyer though that if you are going to claim custody you need some rock solid proof of neglect / abuse etc and a bit of hearsay or a few messages etc wont cut it, or perhaps she has been away a long period of time (years) and the kids have been in your care 100%. You will probably need one or two witnesses from your actual Moo Baan to vouch for you and confirm your story re length of absence of your wife etc. You of course will also have to prove yourself fit to have children in your care....ie no past criminal record, proof of financial position....and not sure how old you are but if you are elderly may be a mark against you. I do agree the family courts here seem to be fair and act in the interests of the kids usually but at the end of the day will be up to the judge.  Best of luck to you!

Kenny the know it all from his own experience so anything others say like myself is generic.  What is generic is your post of assumption Ive dealt with child services have a Thai son and been here for a lot of years really no point in having a conversation with a person like you or addressing your experience useless rant about your own experience half of what was written by you wasn't even mentioned in my short post bye best of luck to you too SMF! 

[kwonitoy]

17 hours ago, thailand49 said:

This is so true get a good lawyer and going cheap isn't helping. Cheap gets you nothing in fact will cost more in the long run.  If this guy doesn't contact you for that lawyer he is a fool. 

In general, unless she is middle class and up she will not have the funds to challenge that is my experience.

It really depends.

For my custody, I didn't know a lawyer so my nanny/housekeeper asked around and got a local Thai lawyer in Sakon Nakon for the grand total of 10,000 baht. All he had to do was file some papers after my deposition at Family social services. Uncontested so no drama.

My divorce cost me 30,000 baht.

I got off cheap lawyer wise but it doesn't serve as any guideline for others. Just that it can be done without costing an arm and a leg and getting the results that are favorable to you

[thailand49]

5 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

It really depends.

For my custody, I didn't know a lawyer so my nanny/housekeeper asked around and got a local Thai lawyer in Sakon Nakon for the grand total of 10,000 baht. All he had to do was file some papers after my deposition at Family social services. Uncontested so no drama.

My divorce cost me 30,000 baht.

I got off cheap lawyer wise but it doesn't serve as any guideline for others. Just that it can be done without costing an arm and a leg and getting the results that are favorable to you

I think or a good reminder to remember we speak in general. My words cheap seem to excited a few.

Remember I wasn't the one to use cheap first in this situation.  Personally when it comes to someone you love cheap isn't my first priority. Even in Thailand at times the most difficult we get lucky for cheap? 

[kingkenny]

lots of drama in this thread that you guys have had to go through. Thankfully my wife just accepted my children would be better off with me and agreed to full custody when we divorced at the ampur.