Do you believe in Tradition and why

[GammaGlobulin]

41 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Or seeing a fat Asian man dressed in red with a white beard with a sack over his shoulder and walking around a Pattaya shopping mall shouting "Ho Ho ho" at Christmas 

In Pattaya? 

 

Shouting, ho, ho, ho? 

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I can accept traditions other people follow if they do no harm. There are many traditions that do.

................................

 

This is an excellent answer to the question. It may even serve as a guideline to practically everything you do think or plan.

[OneMoreFarang]

There are definitely some important traditions.

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

^Miserable people feeling even more miserable because other people are happy during holiday seasons .

Disadvantaged people feeling left out because of commercial pressures applied to the affluent to make them spend more.
The abuse of tradition by commercial enterprise.

There are different ways of looking at the same circumstance, and Hallmark and the Salvation Army view Christmas differently.  I hope I never have to rely on the Salvation Army, but I have much less confidence in Hallmark to help me out if times are hard.   

[GammaGlobulin]

27 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Disadvantaged people feeling left out because of commercial pressures applied to the affluent to make them spend more.
The abuse of tradition by commercial enterprise.

There are different ways of looking at the same circumstance, and Hallmark and the Salvation Army view Christmas differently.  I hope I never have to rely on the Salvation Army, but I have much less confidence in Hallmark to help me out if times are hard.   

If times are hard, then there is always fish on Fridays. 

[Myran]

Nonsensical and pointless topic. What is "tradition" and what does it mean to believe in it? Might as well ask, "Do you believe in existance?"

[StreetCowboy]

7 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

If times are hard, then there is always fish on Fridays. 

"...only fish on Fridays"

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, Myran said:

Nonsensical and pointless topic. What is "tradition" and what does it mean to believe in it? Might as well ask, "Do you believe in existance?"

That is a fair question.  There is some doubt about whether our perception of reality is accurate.  Harping back to the thread on "Tradition..." I would place my faith in existence, but I am a conservative, while you may be not.

[allanos]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

There are some aspects of tradition that are meaningful and beneficial to society, and some that cause harm, and prevent forward progress. Ritualistic aspects of tradition are not particularly useful, and lead to superstition, and can lead to great harm, and ruined lives. Other tradition are simply an excuse for bad behavior. I am not a big fan of tradition, in general. Some are ok. Many others are not. 

 

In Kenya, for example, the customary laws of some ethnic communities discriminate against women when it comes to property ownership and inheritance. As one woman told us, “They talk about African traditions, but there is no tradition you can speak of—just double standards.”

 

Similarly, several former British colonies, including Nigeria and Malaysia, use moral terms such as “gross indecency” and “carnal knowledge against the order of nature” in rejecting homosexuality, citing so-called traditional values embodied in laws that in fact only date to the relatively recent, and otherwise derided, colonial era. In Uganda, Malaysia, Moldova, and Jamaica, where the state rejects LGBT rights, claims that homosexuality is simply “not in our culture” are ubiquitous.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/01/11/trouble-tradition

 

Child marriage is an issue that is pervasive still across many countries due to economic, social and cultural norms. The reasons behind these marriages are varied, often parents arrange the marriage unbeknownst to the child and many are arranged for economic purposes as it can mean one less person to feed.

 

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is a practice most often carried out by traditional circumcisers, who often play central roles in communities. It is a violation of the human rights of girls and women, and reflects deep-rooted gender inequality and female discrimination. 

 

https://coraminternational.org/themes/harmful-traditional-practices/

 

These harmful traditional practices include female genital mutilation (FGM); forced feeding of women; early marriage; the various taboos or practices which prevent women from controlling their own fertility; nutritional taboos and traditional birth practices; son preference and its implications for the status of the girl child; female infanticide; early pregnancy; and dowry price.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c7d541e40f0b603d7852921/PB_What_is_the_harm_S02_18Dec17.pdf

 

I take the following quotation of Mahatma Gandhi as my guiding light in this matter: “It is good to swim in the waters of tradition but to sink in them is suicide.”  
 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/traditions-are-not-bad-but-they-need-to-evolve-constantly/articleshow/56838173.cms?from=mdr

 

Observations on African culture and tradition viewed from an entirely Western-orientated,

Euro-centric perspective and speaks to the "ugly American" tradition of a wish to impose

an alien will on the norms and mores of sovereign nation states.

 

That is not to say that those of us from the West wouldn't agree that male-dominated societies in the Islamic world and Africa, for instance, and egregious practices like FGM are "ok", but it is a very

long way down the track before many such abhorrent (from a Western viewpoint) practices, will be able to be moderated or eradicated completely.

[spidermike007]

13 minutes ago, allanos said:

Observations on African culture and tradition viewed from an entirely Western-orientated,

Euro-centric perspective and speaks to the "ugly American" tradition of a wish to impose

an alien will on the norms and mores of sovereign nation states.

 

That is not to say that those of us from the West wouldn't agree that male-dominated societies in the Islamic world and Africa, for instance, and egregious practices like FGM are "ok", but it is a very

long way down the track before many such abhorrent (from a Western viewpoint) practices, will be able to be moderated or eradicated completely.

True. But that does not mean these traditions are not incredibly ugly, vicious, misogynistic, and demonstrative of the darkest nature of man. Same applies to the Burka, and the Niqab, not letting women out of the house without a chaperone etc. All mideival practices, based on male fear and insecurity. 

[Nickelbeer]

Tradition is best left to religion. That’s where it works best. In all other spheres of endeavor, tradition only destroys efficiency and progress.

[GammaGlobulin]

39 minutes ago, allanos said:

Observations on African culture and tradition viewed from an entirely Western-orientated,

Euro-centric perspective and speaks to the "ugly American" tradition of a wish to impose

an alien will on the norms and mores of sovereign nation states.

 

That is not to say that those of us from the West wouldn't agree that male-dominated societies in the Islamic world and Africa, for instance, and egregious practices like FGM are "ok", but it is a very

long way down the track before many such abhorrent (from a Western viewpoint) practices, will be able to be moderated or eradicated completely.

Moors, and mores, nice! 

[Bert got kinky]

33 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

Tradition is best left to religion. That’s where it works best. In all other spheres of endeavor, tradition only destroys efficiency and progress.

Tradition is best left to religion.

Sorry but I have to disagree with this.

IMHO, tradition should be taught and carried out by military units.

Tradition is the back bone of the military, it introduces respect, teaches military history and is a vital tool in instilling discipline.

An army without traditions would have less pride and less to fight for.

 

Religion, they can take their traditions and stuff them.

They cause much, much more harm than good.

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Bert got kinky

[seedy]

10 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

Tradition is the back bone of the military, it introduces respect, teaches military history and is a vital tool in instilling discipline.

An army without traditions would have less pride and less to fight for.

From this reply you obviously never served in a front line unit

[Bert got kinky]

24 minutes ago, seedy said:

From this reply you obviously never served in a front line unit

 

Why would you rashly jump to that conclusion without even knowing me?

The reason for my post was because I have served on the front line, twice.

 

 
 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Bert got kinky

[moogradod]

As @Lacessit has pointed out, as long as a tradition does not hurt anybody why should there be a restriction ? Example: I am not British but nevertheless I like the tradition of "Afternoon Tea". There are multiple examples like these which I believe are worthwhile upholding. On the contrary there are traditions (even ironically related to religion) which should be abandoned. Not difficult to figure out examples.

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, moogradod said:

As @Lacessit has pointed out, as long as a tradition does not hurt anybody why should there be a restriction ? Example: I am not British but nevertheless I like the tradition of "Afternoon Tea". There are multiple examples like these which I believe are worthwhile upholding. On the contrary there are traditions (even ironically related to religion) which should be abandoned. Not difficult to figure out examples.

Not sure daily or a weekly eating / sipping outing would be considered a tradition.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not sure daily or a weekly eating / sipping outing would be considered a tradition.

Morning tea was a tradition at the first company I worked for, complete with biscuits.

Another tradition I encountered was in South Africa. Lunch at ISCOR consisted of sitting down and waiting for the general manager to arrive.

When he started eating, so did everyone else. When he stopped eating and got up from the table, it was the signal for everyone else to do so.

When in Rome, etc. However, I did not think much of that tradition.

[moogradod]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not sure daily or a weekly eating / sipping outing would be considered a tradition.

I would call that a "Family Tradition". Nothing bad about it. Just yesterday I came across a deep freezer at Villa Market filled up with Turkeys (all pre-cooked ???? - how come they know how I like my turkey, must be some regulation), it makes a phantastic roast instead of using pork as well - but no - it is not available raw. All destined to be eaten within the context of a tradition (at least if you are from the US).

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I would call that a "Family Tradition". Nothing bad about it. Just yesterday I came across a deep freezer at Villa Market filled up with Turkeys (all pre-cooked ???? - how come they know how I like my turkey, must be some regulation), it makes a phantastic roast instead of using pork as well - but no - it is not available raw. All destined to be eaten within the context of a tradition (at least if you are from the US).

Only if you're a 'traditionalist', and do things because people expect or tell you to.  I suspect I do the opposite sometimes, just for spike.

 

When ButterBalls were allowed in 'raw', I used to get one every month or so, and have them bandsaw in half, so a decent meal with leftovers for 2 or 3, instead of 10.

 

Remember serving up a mini seafood buffet, or lobsters for Thanksgiving & Xmas ... must be the spiteful side of me.

 

People telling me what & when to do things, sounds a bit silly to me.

[AsianAtHeart]

To follow tradition, with no better reason than that your forefathers did thus and so, or merely for symbolic value, is simply to remain stuck in a rut. 

 

Each and every thing we do should be based, not on tradition, but on the question of what is right or best for the benefit of all concerned; what will be most suitable for this situation.

 

For those saying they come to Thailand and then follow Thai traditions out of respect for the foreign country in which they are guests--how far will you take this?  Do you know that there are ethnic groups here that, for example, will slaughter a chicken and eat it in your honor should you visit them as a guest in their village?  What if you're a vegetarian?  (And the tradition is so strong that many have struggled to avoid it.)  And there are villages, in both Thailand and Laos, where male guests are welcomed by giving them one of the young virgins of the village for the night?  (These same villages may follow the custom of the village elders having an "opening of the birth canal" ceremony in which they, ahem, "get to know" these young virgins before they are considered women--a coming of age ceremony.)  Then there is the tradition of kissing the corpse of the departed loved one at the funeral that many locals here follow--and it can get even worse than this.  Sickness is often spread in this manner.

 

These are sacred traditions to them--and held to every bit as strongly, perhaps even more strongly, than is likely of your native tradition.

 

Will you follow their traditions just because they are traditions and respected by them?

 

I don't follow traditions unless they are worthwhile.  Any tradition.  My own country's traditions included.  I have no respect for man-made cultures.  I appreciate only those things that serve to set the standard higher and still higher.  When no reason can be given for their existence, and often, even when such reason is yet remembered, traditions are best ignored.

 

It is important to have mutual respect and courtesy, and those who hold to the crutches of tradition must be treated carefully, as most do not see how empty their traditions really are.  If only their eyes could be opened, and they could see how much traditions had hindered them.

[Bert got kinky]

One of the worst traditions in the British Army is 'Gunsmoke'.

Gunsmoke was a mix of 'week' black tea with lashings of rum.

On certain regimental days, you would be noisily (banging bin lids, drums, etc.) woken up by officers who would serve you a 'black mug' of the drink.

Sounds good, free alcohol served to your bedside by the officers.

However, the stuff was absolutely bogging.

Even during my pish-head days, I couldn't drink that stuff.

 

On of my favourite military traditions was introduced to me when I worked with RAF radar staff.

They had carried on the old tradition of 'Tiffin' but their version consisted of tea or coffee with warm 'just cooked' bread.

For the rest of my life I will remember the lovely smell of the bread cooking, wafting from their cookhouse.

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Bert got kinky

[moogradod]

24 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Only if you're a 'traditionalist', and do things because people expect or tell you to.  I suspect I do the opposite sometimes, just for spike.

 

When ButterBalls were allowed in 'raw', I used to get one every month or so, and have them bandsaw in half, so a decent meal with leftovers for 2 or 3, instead of 10.

 

Remember serving up a mini seafood buffet, or lobsters for Thanksgiving & Xmas ... must be the spiteful side of me.

 

People telling me what & when to do things, sounds a bit silly to me.

Nobody beats me to it. I follow traditions (if I do) because I like it, not because it is done by everybody. Example: At Christmas time there is the tradition to drink hot spiced wine. I participated (when I lived in Europe) because I like it and it reminded me of times past. Nothing silly about it. On top some items are only available at certain times. I like smoked eel for example, but this was mostly offered around Christmas. Most of the time I do as well things that I decide at times I individually decide (against my doctors recommendation if must be ????). I do not have fixed times for when to eat and might eat my desert before the main course. At 03:00 at night if I like it. Like Garfield.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Not sure daily or a weekly eating / sipping outing would be considered a tradition.

Of course it is. Afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches is as British as it gets, IMO.

[JimHuaHin]

As I used to tell my students, when they came across the concept of "the traditional family" in a textbook they were required to read - "tradition" or "traditional" referes to what era; 100 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, etc.?  What counts as "tradition" changes as time progresses; and there is rarely such a concept as "a/the national tradition", as not all groups in a community or society have the same beliefs.

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

One of the worst traditions in the British Army is 'Gunsmoke'.

Gunsmoke was a mix of 'week' black tea with lashings of rum.

On certain regimental days, you would be noisily (banging bin lids, drums, etc.) woken up by officers who would serve you a 'black mug' of the drink.

Sounds good, free alcohol served to your bedside by the officers.

However, the stuff was absolutely bogging.

Even during my pish-head days, I couldn't drink that stuff.

 

On of my favourite military traditions was introduced to me when I worked with RAF radar staff.

They had carried on the old tradition of 'Tiffin' but their version consisted of tea or coffee with warm 'just cooked' bread.

For the rest of my life I will remember the lovely smell of the bread cooking, wafting from their cookhouse.

 

The worst "tradition" I encountered in the military was the "formal dinner" where after eating smoking was allowed. I hate cigarette smoke and I loath the vile stench of cigars, so such dinners were anathema for me.

 

In Antarctica, the US military had a horrid tradition of packing newcomers- filling their pants with snow- on arrival.

 

Some traditions I consider vile eg forcing anyone who didn't score in a game of pool to drink a yard glass of beer.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course it is. Afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches is as British as it gets, IMO.

Tradition or marketing ... think:

 

 

Which ever ... a pot of Earl Grey is lovely

Edited September 24, 2022 by KhunLA

[Walker88]

Tradition is a big word that encompasses things that can be good and can be bad.  Also, ALL cultures are dynamic. Over time things change. Some people cannot accept any change at any pace, while others can objectively move on from practices and beliefs that have had their day.

 

Sometimes 'tradition' is a fallback for insecure people who feel that what might give them unearned benefit might go away. An example of this is how many cultures dealt with females according to 'tradition'. "Barefoot and pregnant" was kind of a tradition in thought until the women's movement arose. While pendulums can swing too far---actually, they inevitably swing too far---there is something great about equality and something wildly efficient about unleashing the talents and skills of the other 50% of humanity. The same argument can be made about opening up 'traditional' society to all races. We all do better if the skills of talents of all have an opening to be used.

 

While there are many harmful 'traditions', I'll just give one example, perhaps one of the more egregiously bad traditions:

 

There is a belief system that says that while that belief's deity is omnipotent, it has quality control errors and needs males to remove the love button on females, because if they could feel sexual pleasure, they might engage in sex too much (i.e., cheat on me with a man with a bigger schlong). That is 'tradition' in some cultures. That same belief system says that an omnipotent being that created 200 billion galaxies, each with a hundred trillion stars, most of which have planets, some of which might have life, demands that on one planet orbiting one star in one galaxy women must dress like giant eggplants. That is 'tradition'. When tradition would make me curse that 'creator' for making me a women with a love button and telling me I cannot expose myself in any way lest males be driven into carnal obsession, that is a tradition my society would best do without.

 

As lacesit noted, traditions that do no harm can be nice, but traditions that confer unequal benefits or propagate superstition or hamstring progress are best done away with. And to reiterate one earlier point, cultures have always been dynamic, so we must accept that even some harmless traditions will fall by the wayside over time.

 

Finally, with all the pageantry on display the last two weeks,---coupled with the rout in the currency of the nation displaying that pageantry---I suspect we saw the final coda in a tradition with a thousand year history. The tears were perhaps less for someone's passing than for something passing into the dustbin of history, it's day done forever. (We all get our turn eventually.)

Edited September 24, 2022 by Walker88

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course it is. Afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches is as British as it gets, IMO.

One of the few treats that British Cuisine has to offer to the world besides Seville Orange Marmelade (thick cut). And then the setting. I had it once in the Centara Grand Hua Hin, then the Mandarin Oriental in BKK has it and the Raffles Singapore might offer it too. Did not try it there, though, my last visit was decades ago.

 

And then your attire. Khaki of course. Then start to practice to spread the little finger while holding the tea cup and you are set.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

Nobody beats me to it. I follow traditions (if I do) because I like it, not because it is done by everybody. Example: At Christmas time there is the tradition to drink hot spiced wine. I participated (when I lived in Europe) because I like it and it reminded me of times past. Nothing silly about it. On top some items are only available at certain times. I like smoked eel for example, but this was mostly offered around Christmas. Most of the time I do as well things that I decide at times I individually decide (against my doctors recommendation if must be ????). I do not have fixed times for when to eat and might eat my desert before the main course. At 03:00 at night if I like it. Like Garfield.

Yes, Xmas is always a reminder for me to make a batch of EggNog, Pumpkin pie.  Marketing that stays with you, even though you don't watch TV any more.

 

Got to make my Mojitos on Cinco de Mayo, OK, not Tequila, but I've moved on.