Continuing private membership / private monthly direct member contributions to Thai Social Security membershipaymen

[scorecard]

Quite a few members have mentioned, over many years, that on retirement they elected to continue their Thai Social Security SS membership by private payments each month direct to the SS office.

 

Can I please ask these members to share quick details of:

 

1. - How they became aware that this was possible? And were they specifically informed by the SS staff it was possible to continue when they went to get the refund of their contributions?

 

2. - When did they complete and lodge their application to continue as per above?

 

3. - Was any member told by the SS staff that to continue private membership the appplication had to be completed/lodged the same day they received their refund? Or were they told that 'one day later was too late, cannot continue?

 

4. - Was any member given (at the date of refund of contributions or at any time) any brochure or paper handout regarding private continuation of SS membership?

 

5. - Was any meber aware of Article 39 in the Thai Social Security ACt which says that when members retire etc., they have 6 months to decide whether to continue private membership?

 

Sorry so many questions, but all quite meaningful and perhaps even enlightening for other members. 

 

Thanks.

Edited October 12, 2022 by scorecard

[Bagwain]

I can tell you our experience - Missus referred to a non SS hospital for cancer treament well over 50 times in the last Yr. Pay up front for this but claimable. A few times in private hospitals, not claimable but cost a small fortune & did a better job.

Over 1 yr since 1st claim and told will start payment refund of 1st claim sometime in Oct, 170K over the next 6 months. 

Spent over 600 K. Not finished yet!

Been a strain on me/business and her family!

If late for the SS monthly payment you cop a fine! ????

 

How do the natives cope. (Just let em die I suppose) ????

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Bagwain said:

I can tell you our experience - Missus referred to a non SS hospital for cancer treament well over 50 times in the last Yr. Pay up front for this but claimable. A few times in private hospitals, not claimable but cost a small fortune & did a better job.

Over 1 yr since 1st claim and told will start payment refund of 1st claim sometime in Oct, 170K over the next 6 months. 

Spent over 600 K. Not finished yet!

Been a strain on me/business and her family!

If late for the SS monthly payment you cop a fine! ????

 

How do the natives cope. (Just let em die I suppose) ????

Thanks for sharig your experience, very interesting.

 

My hope is to get some real examples of farang who:

 

- by law, had to personally join the Thai SS fund.

- retired, and elected to remain a private member of the fund, paying monthly contributions direct to the fund.

 

The most critical detail I'm trying to find is:

 

- how did you know (when you retired) that you can elect to continue in private membership by payin a private direct payment each month to the SS Fund?

-       Did the HR Dept., at your employment tell you about               this, or  how did you find out?

-       If you went to the SS Fund to receive the contributions          refund, did the SS Fund staff tell

        you that you can elect to continue by changing to                  having a go to private membership?

-      Did the SS Fund officer give you any brochure/handout

        materials specific to continuing in a private

        membership?

-       Did they mention that you had to change to a private

         membership on the same day you

         received your contributions refund? Or ?

 

Thanks.

Edited October 12, 2022 by scorecard

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thanks for sharig your experience, very interesting.

 

My hope is to get some real examples of farang who:

 

- by law, had to personally join the Thai SS fund.

- retired, and elected to remain a private member of the fund, paying monthly contributions direct to the fund.

 

The most critical detail I'm trying to find is:

 

- how did you know (when you retired) that you can elect to continue in private membership by payin a private direct payment each month to the SS Fund?

-       Did the HR Dept., at your employment tell you about               this, or  how did you find out?

-       If you went to the SS Fund to receive the contributions          refund, did the SS Fund staff tell

        you that you can elect to continue by changing to                  having a go to private membership?

-      Did the SS Fund officer give you any brochure/handout

        materials specific to continuing in a private

        membership?

-       Did they mention that you had to change to a private

         membership on the same day you

         received your contributions refund? Or ?

 

Thanks.

If a Social Security member moves to another job, do they keep the same member number? Anybody know?

[BigStar]

At my company other older expats mentioned the possibility, and I also think I read about on TVF. My benevolent Thai boss may have mentioned it. HR didn't have to mention it because I mentioned it first. But they might well have, good department with good people.

 

No, m'lord, there's no nice little brochure for you or engraved invitation letter. It's not actually in the Thai govt's interest to encourage expats to sign up, as they've likely not paid much in during the relatively short time they're employed. And there are only a very small number eligible. It's mainly for Thais, and so all documentation is all in Thai, far as I know. No, they aren't going to translate it for you.

 

OF COURSE there's no law you have to join Thai SS, but if you work at a company or institution that is a member, it'll be company policy to join and foolish not to.

 

HR took care of all my paperwork and gave me the form for SS to debit my bank account, which is how I've been paying monthly.

 

Oh, I don't know WHAT DAY I was enrolled, but that's a silly non-issue. If your office said you must join on the same day you receive your payout, then the answer to that is, "Thank you. Where do I sign?" No brainer.

 

Same with my Immigration office. They want certain docs on the day I apply for my extension. I make sure they get them ALL, neatly typed. It's totally self-defeating to chop logic and play farang lawyer w/ Thai gov't offices.

 

I didn't actually use it for more than a decade. I finally tried, for a dentist refund, to see if it worked for the future. I immediately had some issue about not being found in the system. So I visited the SS office in Laemchabaeng and got "activated," so to speak. The staff members were all quite nice, but I'm also nice. I made good use of my pink card there, and now it serves as my enrollment ID that I present to my registered hospital. All been good.

 

Far as what happens w/ your SS if you join another company also a member of SS, I dunno; ask that company or SS. I assume you'd resume normal SS payments there under the same number.

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by BigStar

[Bagwain]

My mate retired as a English teacher for the Navy. His wife has a mrtgage ona house. He was told he had to have the Yellow Book which you also get the pink ID card for him to continue his SS. Which he has started the B/S paperwork so he can keep paying! 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Bagwain said:

My mate retired as a English teacher for the Navy. His wife has a mrtgage ona house. He was told he had to have the Yellow Book which you also get the pink ID card for him to continue his SS. Which he has started the B/S paperwork so he can keep paying! 

The information he eas given was wrong. Pink ID card is not required. 

 

The problem is that many SS offices do not know how to process the paperwork for non Thai nationals.

 

He nay get further problems once he has the pink card since the numbering system differs from that gor Thais and there is no scannable chip.

 

Best to call the SS main office when given tun around like this from local offices.

 

Note that he must bomplete the conversion within 6 months of leaving employment. 

 

[Bagwain]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The information he eas given was wrong. Pink ID card is not required. 

 

The problem is that many SS offices do not know how to process the paperwork for non Thai nationals.

 

He nay get further problems once he has the pink card since the numbering system differs from that gor Thais and there is no scannable chip.

 

Best to call the SS main office when given tun around like this from local offices.

 

Note that he must bomplete the conversion within 6 months of leaving employment. 

 

His wife was told by the SS that the Yellow book was required. 

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

His wife was told by the SS that the Yellow book was required. 

Seems to me that the SS office plays a lot of games.

 

Just one is when foreigners go to to get a refund of their contrributions (which happens frequently) they are NOT told that they can elect to continue as a private member paying direct to the SS Fund each month until death.

 

About 12 years back I retired, I was given some documents by the accountant at the company I was retiring from so I could go to the SS office at Din Daeng to claim the refund. The accountant's knowledge about the SS laws / act was close to zero, not her job.

 

• (I had worked at the company I was retiring from for 12 years and had been a SS member working previously at 2 other companes, total about 8 years. All up total years of membership about 20 years.)

 

On the evening I got the refund I got an 'urgent' call from the accountant saying she had been speaking to a friend who told her that members can get the refund and can also elect to continue their membership by paying each month direct to the SS fund, until death.

 

I went back to the SS office at Din Daeng very early the next morning and said that I wanted to continue as a privately paying member. The officer said 'cannot, too late, have to lodge the application to continue on the SAME DAY you get the refund'

 

I asked to speak to a supvr, on the way to the counter the supvr had a conversation (out of my earshot) with the officer who had told me 'cannot too late, same day..... .

 

Supvr came to the counter and immediately repeated the same words 

'cannot too late, same day..... . and walked away.

 

At that point I naively assumed they were telling me the truth. I departed. 

 

It's only this month (Oct 2022) that I discovered theres' a clause in the SS Act, Clause 39, that states clearly on retirement members have six months to decide whether they want to continue private membership. (Thank you again Dr. Sheryl for sending me the act in English.)

 

After carefully reading the act and talking to a knowledgeable lawyer I have discovered there is no mention whatever about 'have to lodge continuation application SAME DAY as receiving the refund'.

The lawyer mentioned that she has never heard this ever before.

 

Lawyer (this month) asked me 'when you went to get the refund did the SS officer tell you about 'six months to decide......', or did they give you any brochure or handout to read on this subject.

 

My response NO and NO.

 

 

Yes it's now many years past 6 months however I / my lawyer are preparing a claim that I should be allowed to continue private membership.

 

I / my lawyer are not going back to the SS Din Daeng office to lodge my claim.

 

We're still investigating where to lodge my claim. In fact if anybody knows where the ultimate SS head office is located and/or has the name and contact details for a very senior official would you please share.

 

Thank you.   

P.S.

1. I  have Thai Permanent Residency (25 years) and my name is in the standard dark blue Tabien Baan book and I have the pink ID card, if the SS fund should ask for these.

2. An old farang friend retired 2 years back after 20 years of membership, he went to the local SS office (smaller office) and was told. 'You can get a refund of contributions or you can elect to continue in private membeship and pay each month direct to the SS fund, but you can'e get both.' 

Edited October 13, 2022 by scorecard

[KhaoNiaw]

14 hours ago, BigStar said:

OF COURSE there's no law you have to join Thai SS, but if you work at a company or institution that is a member, it'll be company policy to join and foolish not to.

There certainly used to be a law. Do people have the option to opt-out nowadays? 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, KhaoNiaw said:

There certainly used to be a law. Do people have the option to opt-out nowadays? 

I do not think so. AFAIK it is mandatory while employed. Staying in after leaving employment though is completely optional.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Seems to me that the SS office plays a lot of games.

 

Just one is when foreigners go to to get a refund of their contrributions (which happens frequently) they are NOT told that they can elect to continue as a private member paying direct to the SS Fund each month until death.

 

About 12 years back I retired, I was given some documents by the accountant at the company I was retiring from so I could go to the SS office at Din Daeng to claim the refund. The accountant's knowledge about the SS laws / act was close to zero, not her job.

 

• (I had worked at the company I was retiring from for 12 years and had been a SS member working previously at 2 other companes, total about 8 years. All up total years of membership about 20 years.)

 

On the evening I got the refund I got an 'urgent' call from the accountant saying she had been speaking to a friend who told her that members can get the refund and can also elect to continue their membership by paying each month direct to the SS fund, until death.

 

I went back to the SS office at Din Daeng very early the next morning and said that I wanted to continue as a privately paying member. The officer said 'cannot, too late, have to lodge the application to continue on the SAME DAY you get the refund'

 

I asked to speak to a supvr, on the way to the counter the supvr had a conversation (out of my earshot) with the officer who had told me 'cannot too late, same day..... .

 

Supvr came to the counter and immediately repeated the same words 

'cannot too late, same day..... . and walked away.

 

At that point I naively assumed they were telling me the truth. I departed. 

 

It's only this month (Oct 2022) that I discovered theres' a clause in the SS Act, Clause 39, that states clearly on retirement members have six months to decide whether they want to continue private membership. (Thank you again Dr. Sheryl for sending me the act in English.)

 

After carefully reading the act and talking to a knowledgeable lawyer I have discovered there is no mention whatever about 'have to lodge continuation application SAME DAY as receiving the refund'.

The lawyer mentioned that she has never heard this ever before.

 

Lawyer (this month) asked me 'when you went to get the refund did the SS officer tell you about 'six months to decide......', or did they give you any brochure or handout to read on this subject.

 

My response NO and NO.

 

 

Yes it's now many years past 6 months however I / my lawyer are preparing a claim that I should be allowed to continue private membership.

 

I / my lawyer are not going back to the SS Din Daeng office to lodge my claim.

 

We're still investigating where to lodge my claim. In fact if anybody knows where the ultimate SS head office is located and/or has the name and contact details for a very senior official would you please share.

 

Thank you.   

P.S.

1. I  have Thai Permanent Residency (25 years) and my name is in the standard dark blue Tabien Baan book and I have the pink ID card, if the SS fund should ask for these.

2. An old farang friend retired 2 years back after 20 years of membership, he went to the local SS office (smaller office) and was told. 'You can get a refund of contributions or you can elect to continue in private membeship and pay each month direct to the SS fund, but you can'e get both.' 

It sounds to me like you are confusing two very different things and that the SS office may have done likewise.

 

One is the medical cover. You can continue that through private pay as long as you enrol to do so within 6 months of leaving employment.

 

The other is the old age benefit. Upon leaving employment , if over age 55 and enrolled for at least 180 months you have the option of either taking a lump sum payment or getting a lifetime pension.  Less than 180 months, you can get only the lump sum. The choice you make regarding the old age benefit has nothing at all to do with what you can chose regarding the medical cover - but it is not unusual for SS to claim the two are linked. I have heard a number of cases where people who opted to take the lump sum were wrongly told this precluded them from continuing medical cover. Not clear if this was a communication issue (maybe the SS staff  -- who often speak little or no English - thought they were asking about the pension option, which indeed is forefeited if you take lump sum) or SS staff just being misinformed.  The option to continue medical cover is not often taken as  Thais  are automatically covered under the universal scheme at no cost upon  ceasing to be under SS.

 

You should not use the term "private membership" as it is inaccurate and will confuse people. What you are talking about is continuation of medical cover only.

 

The SS Head Office is in Nonthaburi. https://www.sso.go.th/wpr/main/general/ข้อมูลการติดต่อ_singleview_contacts-view_1_69_0

 

Staff there are much better informed than in the local offices.

 

I doubt you are going to get anywhere, though. And bear in mind you have no proof of what was told to you. Staff at that SSO can easily claim it is not what they said or that you had not asked clearly and they thought you were talking about pension.

[BigStar]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I do not think so. AFAIK it is mandatory while employed. Staying in after leaving employment though is completely optional.

But for example aren't some farang teachers are employed at institutions (private?) that don't fall under Thai SS and are therefore not members of the scheme? I seem to recall some posters mentioning this.

Edited October 13, 2022 by BigStar

[BigStar]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I doubt you are going to get anywhere, though. And bear in mind you have no proof of what was told to you. Staff at that SSO can easily claim it is not what they said or that you had not asked clearly and they thought you were talking about pension.

This.

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

He nay get further problems once he has the pink card since the numbering system differs from that gor Thais and there is no scannable chip.

I've had no problems whatsoever using mine at Queen Sirikit Hsp.

 

The magnetic strip worked for the turnstile entrance to the Laemchabang SS office.???? 

[Sheryl]

11 hours ago, BigStar said:

But for example aren't some farang teachers are employed at institutions (private?) that don't fall under Thai SS and are therefore not members of the scheme? I seem to recall some posters mentioning this.

Yes, private schools are exempted from the mandatory SS scheme.

[petedk]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:39 AM, Sheryl said:

The information he eas given was wrong. Pink ID card is not required. 

 

The problem is that many SS offices do not know how to process the paperwork for non Thai nationals.

 

He nay get further problems once he has the pink card since the numbering system differs from that gor Thais and there is no scannable chip.

 

Best to call the SS main office when given tun around like this from local offices.

 

Note that he must bomplete the conversion within 6 months of leaving employment. 

 

 

I have just been to the local Social Security office and they absolutely insist that the yellow book and pink ID card is required.

Do you have a link or something definite that I can use as proof that it isn't required?

[scorecard]

40 minutes ago, petedk said:

 

I have just been to the local Social Security office and they absolutely insist that the yellow book and pink ID card is required.

Do you have a link or something definite that I can use as proof that it isn't required?

 

Call the SSF Hotline number on 1506 for expert advice. They have an English language option and the officers who take these calls are experts and the discussion is always pleasant.

 

Sometimes the English language option doesn't work and your call falls back to a Thai language officer. If this happens it means there no advanced level English language officer available for such calls at that time.

 

Call back later or the next working day and get an English speaking officer. You will get expert advice and suggestions of what next step to take. Worth the wait.

 

From my experience it's true that many of the SSF officers don't have full knowledge of how to process foreigner applications etc. 

 

The SSF officers here in Chiang Mai initially insisted that a yellow Tabien Baan was compulsory, and nobody in the office had ever heard of PR - in fact they insisted I had a visa and they insisted on knowing the expiry date. They were adamant there's no such thing as PR and I must be thinking about another country.

 

I called 1506 and spoke to a very pleasant SSF officer (I think she's an SSF lawyer).  She called the CM office and explained to them that the dark blue Tabien Baan book is acceptable for PR holders and explained that PR is real and it's issued for lifetime - there's no expiry date. 

[petedk]

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Call the SSF Hotline number on 1506 for expert advice. They have an English language option and the officers who take these calls are experts and the discussion is always pleasant.

 

Sometimes the English language option doesn't work and your call falls back to a Thai language officer. If this happens it means there no advanced level English language officer available for such calls at that time.

 

Call back later or the next working day and get an English speaking officer. You will get expert advice and suggestions of what next step to take. Worth the wait.

 

From my experience it's true that many of the SSF officers don't have full knowledge of how to process foreigner applications etc. 

 

The SSF officers here in Chiang Mai initially insisted that a yellow Tabien Baan was compulsory, and nobody in the office had ever heard of PR - in fact they insisted I had a visa and they insisted on knowing the expiry date. They were adamant there's no such thing as PR and I must be thinking about another country.

 

I called 1506 and spoke to a very pleasant SSF officer (I think she's an SSF lawyer).  She called the CM office and explained to them that the dark blue Tabien Baan book is acceptable for PR holders and explained that PR is real and it's issued for lifetime - there's no expiry date. 

 

Ah but I don't have PR and I am not registered in the blue book.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, petedk said:

 

I have just been to the local Social Security office and they absolutely insist that the yellow book and pink ID card is required.

Do you have a link or something definite that I can use as proof that it isn't required?

There is no link on this either way

 

Suggest you call the head office

[petedk]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There is no link on this either way

 

Suggest you call the head office

talking to them now

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, petedk said:

 

Ah but I don't have PR and I am not registered in the blue book.

Sure, my post was just to emphasize, with examples, that some SSF officers are quite lacking in knowledge of many aspects of their processes. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by scorecard

[scorecard]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:17 PM, petedk said:

 

I have just been to the local Social Security office and they absolutely insist that the yellow book and pink ID card is required.

Do you have a link or something definite that I can use as proof that it isn't required?

When I started the process of continuing my Article 39 Injury and Sickness cover the SS office here in Chiang Mai insisted that I must show a yellow Tabien Baan book and my pink card.

 

I explained that my name is in the standard dark blue Tabien baan book because I am a Permanent Resident PR.

 

SSO CM leader responded:

- What visa is PR? And what is the expiry date, and 'you need to go to immigration and insist that they organize a yellow Tabien Baan book for you'.

 

- I explained (through a Thai lady who is a company admin. manager here in CM, speaks perfect English and Thai) that PR is for life , it has no expiry date and it's automatic when PR is issued the foreigners' name goes in a dark blue Tabien baan book.

 

- SS leader here in CM insisted there is no such thing as PR, and was adamant that I must be mistaken and in reality have a one year renewable visa. 

 

- I Called the SSO Hotline 1506. Luckily on that day there was a snr. lawyer available to take calls in English.

 

- When I shared all of the details in the points above she said 'I'm not surprised, SSO staff have zero training or knowledge about visas and the regulations do state 'foreigner must have yellow tabien baan book' and pink D card. She took all the details and said she would personally visit CM office and conduct a training session about numerous items.

 

- Soon after that the SSO CM leader shared that he had learned that they can accept the dark blue covered tabien baan book.

 

From there the process went fairly smoothly and my section 39 Injury and Sickness benefits were restarted.  

 

Edited March 19 by scorecard

[scorecard]

NEW QUESTION ABOUT AUTOMATIC PERSONAL PAYMENT OF MONTHLY CONTRIBUTIONS FOR MEMBERS WHO HAVE CONTINUED THEIR INJURY AND SICKNESS BENEFITS.

 

My member contribution payment was due on 15 March using the auto system where the SSO automatically removes the payment from the members bank account.

 

I have just realized that my member payment didn't happen.

 

Why? Because I have several savings accounts (me alone and me and my son) and I topped up the wrong bank account - therefore not enough funds in the designated bank account.

 

Totally my fault.

 

I've called the SSO 1506 Hotline several times today but there's no english speaking officers answering the phone.  

 

What can I do to correct the situation? Any advice much appreciated.

Edited March 19 by scorecard

[Sheryl]

Just pay it as soon as possible.  Ask your bank if the auto transfer will still go through, if not you may need to initiate a transfer.

 

There is a brief grace period for late payments (I forget how long, it is in the SS Act, but certainly not less than a month). 

[scorecard]

Thank you Sheryl.

 

I plan to go to my bank tomorrow morning and see if they can help, and i'll call the 1506 Hotline, they will have an answer.

 

I have many savings account and I've messed up doing the top up ready for the SSO auto deduction process.

 

I already found there is a long grace period to get it all corrected. 

 

All my own fault and I'll learn from my error.

 

Thanks again.

Edited March 19 by scorecard

[DrJoy]

28 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I already found there is a long grace period to get it all corrected

One payment bounce does not cancel it, not to worry

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

One payment bounce does not cancel it, not to worry

 Thanks.

[scorecard]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:30 PM, DrJoy said:

One payment bounce does not cancel it, not to worry

Thanks again.

 

I got an English speaker on the 1506 Chat Box column, she understood immediately, polite, and gave very clearcomment:

 

- Cannot fix this online

- Go to any 7 /11, take a document which shows the words Social Security in Thai, member name and ID number.

- Say that you want to pay 432Baht.

Did that.

 

- 7/11 lady quickly found the SS on her screen and entered my ID number etc., then said 'pay 1 month or 2 <in Thai>, I responded 1 month.

- She took the money and then entered the payment on her screen.

- Gave me receipt.

 

All done in 1 minute. 

 

Since called 1506, luckily got an English speaker, lady confirmed the normal system for SS to deduct payment from my K bank a/c will restart immediately (on 15 April).

 

Wasn't painful at all.

 

Thanks again for all the advice.