OTHERED: How racism, xenophobia and religious discrimination were woven into the fabric of the UK

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:17 AM, kwilco said:

more sealioning!

Expand  

Stop making false allegations .

I asked a person a question and he will not answer 

He cannot answer because its well known that Irish builders did like a drink 

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:05 AM, kwilco said:

I guess they all looked the same to you?

  

 

 

Expand  

That is true .

If I see a Black person, I cannot tell as to whether they come from the Caribbean of Africa , they do look the same to me 

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:08 AM, Bluespunk said:

I have.

 

You did not specify that Irish builders like a drink, though

that in itself is also a stereotype.

 

You said ''the Irish do like a drink''

 

As to what that can be called...I'll let you answer that.

 

 

 

Expand  

Well, do you have an opinion on the question, simply replying and telling me to answer myself , well it is answering the post, but it isn't answering the question 

[proton]

  On 10/14/2022 at 4:04 AM, Bluespunk said:

Nonetheless racism is a cancer that afflicts the country...

Expand  

No it does not

[kwilco]

  On 10/18/2022 at 9:55 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

people of African descent

Expand  

See 29 - microaggressions

[kwilco]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:27 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Stop making false allegations .

I asked a person a question and he will not answer 

He cannot answer because its well known that Irish builders did like a drink 

Expand  

Sorry it IS sealioning the answer is tangential to the topic -  "its well known that Irish builders did like a drink " - you don't seem to recognise your own sweeping generalisations as pure prejudice and assumption...

but....

I think you should rethink your assumptions…. (L Greenslade 1, M Pearson, M Madden - 1995)

 

[There are] “long-standing stereotypes [that] portray Irish people as prone to use alcohol to excess.

The article traces the historical origins of those stereotypes, and examines evidence drawn from a range of sources in Ireland and Britain about alcohol consumption, attributed hospital admissions and mortality.”

 

It finds that rates of abstinence from alcohol are higher in Ireland than in Britain, and amongst migrants, the Irish are no more likely to consume alcohol than the indigenous population.

Data from the General Household Survey indicated that people of Irish birth or parentage are no more likely than the British born to use alcohol at all.

[proton]

  On 10/17/2022 at 9:09 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

If the UK is racist, it's certainly less so than any other country I've lived in.

Expand  

So racist thousands flock to get in illegally and legally to be discriminated against with all the benefits living in the UK gives them ????

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:32 AM, kwilco said:

See 29 - microaggressions

Expand  

Are you saying that its derogatory to say people are of African descent ?

   That shows your racism by suggesting there is something wrong with being of African descent  .

  I am accusing you of being a racist for suggesting there's something wrong with being of African descent 

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:34 AM, kwilco said:

Sorry it IS sealioning the answer is tangential to the topic -  "its well known that Irish builders did like a drink " - you don't seem to recognise your own sweeping generalisations as pure prejudice and assumption...

but....

I think you should rethink your assumptions…. (L Greenslade 1, M Pearson, M Madden - 1995)

 

[There are] “long-standing stereotypes [that] portray Irish people as prone to use alcohol to excess.

The article traces the historical origins of those stereotypes, and examines evidence drawn from a range of sources in Ireland and Britain about alcohol consumption, attributed hospital admissions and mortality.”

 

It finds that rates of abstinence from alcohol are higher in Ireland than in Britain, and amongst migrants, the Irish are no more likely to consume alcohol than the indigenous population.

Data from the General Household Survey indicated that people of Irish birth or parentage are no more likely than the British born to use alcohol at all.

Expand  

Moving the goals posts somewhat .

I was speaking about Irish builders who came to work in the U.K in the 1950s , I also gave a reason as to why they wouldn't be suitable tenants was because building work is considered to be seasonal work and the work is irregular and so the tenants may only stay until their building has been built and they would move on somewhere else , and landlords would want long term tenants , 

[kwilco]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:27 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Stop making false allegations .

I asked a person a question and he will not answer 

He cannot answer because its well known that Irish builders did like a drink 

Expand  

your fallacy this time is  "Appeal to tradition" – an argument supported by the fact the it has long held to be true - and is in reality not true.

[kwilco]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:43 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:34 AM, kwilco said:

Sorry it IS sealioning the answer is tangential to the topic -  "its well known that Irish builders did like a drink " - you don't seem to recognise your own sweeping generalisations as pure prejudice and assumption...

but....

I think you should rethink your assumptions…. (L Greenslade 1, M Pearson, M Madden - 1995)

 

[There are] “long-standing stereotypes [that] portray Irish people as prone to use alcohol to excess.

The article traces the historical origins of those stereotypes, and examines evidence drawn from a range of sources in Ireland and Britain about alcohol consumption, attributed hospital admissions and mortality.”

 

It finds that rates of abstinence from alcohol are higher in Ireland than in Britain, and amongst migrants, the Irish are no more likely to consume alcohol than the indigenous population.

Data from the General Household Survey indicated that people of Irish birth or parentage are no more likely than the British born to use alcohol at all.

Expand   Expand  

Moving the goals posts somewhat

Expand  

That is also a form of sealioning - they are referring to Irish immigration post war - you are moving the goalposts by adding extra qualifications after your argument has been shown to be flawed.

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:49 AM, kwilco said:

That is also a form of sealioning - they are referring to Irish immigration post war - you are moving the goalposts by adding extra qualifications after your argument has been shown to be flawed.

Expand  

Many of the Irish came to the UK to work in the construction industry in the 1950s

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:32 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well, do you have an opinion on the question, simply replying and telling me to answer myself , well it is answering the post, but it isn't answering the question 

Expand  

No intention whatsoever of answering your deflection question, just happy pointing out the hypocrisy and irony of your posts where you accuse others of doing what you yourself do...

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:52 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Many of the Irish came to the UK to work in the construction industry in the 1950s

Expand  

My parents didn't...

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:15 PM, Bluespunk said:

My parents didn't...

Expand  

What jobs did your Parents do in the UK in the 1950's ?

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:43 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Moving the goals posts somewhat .

I was speaking about Irish builders who came to work in the U.K in the 1950s , I also gave a reason as to why they wouldn't be suitable tenants was because building work is considered to be seasonal work and the work is irregular and so the tenants may only stay until their building has been built and they would move on somewhere else , and landlords would want long term tenants , 

Expand  

You also made a sweeping generalisation that ''the Irish do like a drink''

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

What jobs did your Parents do in the UK in the 1950's ?

Expand  

None of your business

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:32 AM, proton said:

No it does not

Expand  

Yes it does...and I have provided links earlier in this thread that shows the damaging effect racist attitudes and actions are having in the uk...

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, Bluespunk said:

You also made a sweeping generalisation that ''the Irish do like a drink''

Expand  

In relation to Irish  builders who came to work in the UK in the 1950's

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:18 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

In relation to Irish  builders who came to work in the UK in the 1950's

Expand  

It is not what you said.

 

Here is what you said

 

"Irish were coming to the U.K often to work in construction and Irish builders may not have been the type of tenant a landlord would want , work was seasonal and the Irish do like a drink ''

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 11:27 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Stop making false allegations .

I asked a person a question and he will not answer 

He cannot answer because its well known that Irish builders did like a drink 

Expand  

I answered it, as your generalisation was aimed at the Irish as a whole, not builders.

[proton]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:18 PM, Bluespunk said:

Yes it does...and I have provided links earlier in this thread that shows the damaging effect racist attitudes and actions are having in the uk...

Expand  

You, like a lot of liberals seem obsessed with racism, it's enormously exaggerated. 

[Lacessit]

Racism exists in every country on the planet, and is usually quite a good indicator of the education level.

I value or avoid people on the basis of their individual attributes, nationality or skin color is irrelevant to me.

Differences are a product of beneficial genetic adaptation, and the cultural environment the person was raised in.

Having said that, I do discriminate when it comes to religious adherents, because I regard them as mentally deranged. I make an exception for Buddhism, because IMO it is more a philosophy than a monotheistic belief.

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:21 PM, proton said:

You, like a lot of liberals seem obsessed with racism, it's enormously exaggerated. 

Expand  

No it's not and despite how much you don't want to see it, racism is a cancer that eats away at a society.

 

Oh, and I am far more to the left than liberals...

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:20 PM, Bluespunk said:

I answered it, as your generalisation was aimed at the Irish as a whole, not builders.

Expand  

You really need to read whole paragraphs and sentences separated by a comma and understand what point is being made  , rather than just picking out a few words from paragraphs and then taking the meaning out of context 

[Bluespunk]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:26 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

You really need to read whole paragraphs and sentences separated by a comma and understand what point is being made  , rather than just picking out a few words from paragraphs and then taking the meaning out of context 

Expand  

Your words, in total regarding your stereotype comments on the Irish.

 

"Irish were coming to the U.K often to work in construction and Irish builders may not have been the type of tenant a landlord would want , work was seasonal and the Irish do like a drink .''

 

The meaning is perfectly clear.

[Chomper Higgot]

  On 10/18/2022 at 10:32 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

You have fallen foul of rules...................

 

4.     Stereotyping of an entire nationality.

 

9.     Over-use of the 3rd person plural pronouns and adjectives, (e.g. - them, they, their)

 

 

10.  “They” come over here….

 

11.  Sweeping subjective generalisations about nationality, creed, colour

18.  “They come over here…”

 

If you can tick any one of these, you are probably racist.

Expand  

Oh, so now you want to apply the list you yourself have been arguing against.

 

Try this for size (third time of asking):

 

  On 10/17/2022 at 1:57 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

OK let’s accept at face value your opinion is that particular list is nonsense.

 

Do you agree there are statements and ‘go to arguments’ that are characteristic of racists?

 

Or is it your contention that nobody can conclude another person is a racist on the basis of the statements and arguments they put forward?

 

 

Expand  

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:29 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh, so now you want to apply the list you yourself have been arguing against.

 

Try this for size (third time of asking):

 

 

Expand  

Do you agree with the list or not , or does the list just apply to other people ?

   Yes, some racist people do make statements from the list , but also non racist people make statements from the list , meaning that the list doesn't prove a person is racist 

[pixelaoffy]

Picked out this CNN non story. What we know is multi culturalism has and is failing in UK and Oh Scott  long way to go before it gets in the Black whole that Republic in the North Atlantic is goingto.

[kwilco]

  On 10/18/2022 at 12:23 PM, Lacessit said:

Racism exists in every country on the planet, and is usually quite a good indicator of the education level.

I value or avoid people on the basis of their individual attributes, nationality or skin color is irrelevant to me.

Differences are a product of beneficial genetic adaptation, and the cultural environment the person was raised in.

Having said that, I do discriminate when it comes to religious adherents, because I regard them as mentally deranged. I make an exception for Buddhism, because IMO it is more a philosophy than a monotheistic belief.

Expand  

12.     It’s a religion, so that’s not racist, is it?