Discharging debt in Thailand

[NorthernRyland]

My wives outstanding debt is 90% of her income and she's somehow managing to service it by rotating credit cards and making minimum payments. Stupid thing ever, I know, don't bother to comment on this. If she tries to pay this off it will take her entire working career so I don't see how this is better than filing bankruptcy (if that exists!) and not having any credit at all. If your entire job is pay off debt then why not just quit and abandon the debt, either way you have $0 at the end of the month.

 

50-60% is some "om sin" loan she got from her work and is deducted directly from her wages so I don't think she can get out of that without quitting but what about the credit cards? Can she stop making payments wait for the threats to roll in and then negotiate it down like you could in the US?

[Lacessit]

She is probably waiting for you to bail her out.

Given the loan sharking that goes on here, I would say threats should be taken seriously. US consumer law and negotiation may not work here.

Perhaps you or she need a lawyer to explain the options more clearly.

My Thai GF knows if she ever goes into debt, it is the end of our relationship.

[Iamfalang]

desperate times, desperate measures.   use CC's, pay off all her debt, then you worry about your debt.

 

debt is debt, lower interest rate and in a country where you can file BK is better.

 

not going to find some magic solution online .  

 

but I can sell you the winning lottery numbers for only 1 million baht, no guarantees.

[Celsius]

There is no such thing as bankruptcy like in the West,

 

If she is married the bank goes after you. If they don't go after you, they go after the family.

 

She obviously does not want to burden her family with problems she created.

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Given the loan sharking that goes on here, I would say threats should be taken seriously. US consumer law and negotiation may not work here.

Perhaps you or she need a lawyer to explain the options more clearly.

yeah she had all of this before I met her 10 years ago but it's starting to become a problem now. It's not loan sharks but credit card companies. They want you to think there's no risk involved in their business and you can't get out but that's not the true at least in the US. Making a criminal offense to not pay back credit cards is over the top, even for Thailand.

[Sparktrader]

If its 15.000 baht just pay it be done.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, Celsius said:

There is no such thing as bankruptcy like in the West,

 

If she is married the bank goes after you. If they don't go after you, they go after the family.

 

She obviously does not want to burden her family with problems she created.

They make all these treats to in the US. I one time got a credit card when I was 18 for $600. Of course being a stupid kid I ran it up to full and then didn't pay it back. All they did was call and complain. Nothing they can do except report you to credit agencies.

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

yeah she had all of this before I met her 10 years ago but it's starting to become a problem now. It's not loan sharks but credit card companies. They want you to think there's no risk involved in their business and you can't get out but that's not the true at least in the US. Making a criminal offense to not pay back credit cards is over the top, even for Thailand.

The total debt number is????... either pay it out or leave her.

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, Sparktrader said:

If its 15.000 baht just pay it be done.

Nearly 1 million baht. Maybe if she works her whole life until retirement she can pay it off and have nothing to show for all her efforts. This isn't a mortgage btw, just needless foolish spending when she was in in her 20's.

 

This is why household debt is 90% of GDP right now in Thailand. 

[Sparktrader]

Just now, NorthernRyland said:

Nearly 1 million baht. Maybe if she works her whole life until retirement she can pay it off and have nothing to show for all her efforts. This isn't a mortgage btw, just needless foolish spending when she was in in her 20's.

 

This is why household debt is 90% of GDP right now in Thailand. 

Id leave her. Pack my bags and go.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

The total debt number is????... either pay it out or leave her.

it's something like 25k USD at todays exchange rates. No way I'm paying that. I may have a job now and can save money but I had basically nothing the majority of the 10 years I've known her and if I lose my job I'm back to where I was.

[Chris.B]

 

13 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

it's something like 25k USD at todays exchange rates. No way I'm paying that. I may have a job now and can save money but I had basically nothing the majority of the 10 years I've known her and if I lose my job I'm back to where I was.

Divorce then.

 

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, Chris.B said:

Divorce then.

I'm not at that point yet, just looking for constructive ideas or experience anyone has.

[Celsius]

25 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

yeah she had all of this before I met her 10 years ago but it's starting to become a problem now. It's not loan sharks but credit card companies. They want you to think there's no risk involved in their business and you can't get out but that's not the true at least in the US. Making a criminal offense to not pay back credit cards is over the top, even for Thailand.

 

I personally knew a girl who got a permanent residency in another country and could not leave Thailand unless the debt was paid off. In the end the husband had to foot the bill which was about half of the amount your wife owes (or maybe more with interest and penalties piled up).

[PPGuy]

This earlier thread may have some pointers.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1167830-defaulting-on-credit-card-debt/

There may be some other similar topics is you do a search on AN (via google would be best).

[KhaoNiaw]

40 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Nearly 1 million baht. Maybe if she works her whole life until retirement she can pay it off and have nothing to show for all her efforts. This isn't a mortgage btw, just needless foolish spending when she was in in her 20's.

 

This is why household debt is 90% of GDP right now in Thailand. 

So many young Thais do that when they get their first job, get all the cards they can and max them out.

I think it's actually best to engage with the process rather than just ignore. If a court date is issued, then there's a chance for negotiations. There are limits on the period credit companies have to start the process of recovering the debt but they usually seem to start action just when the limit is up. I know a couple of people now in their 30s who ignored all documents that were sent to their home address in the provinces and it's caught up with them eventually. Though they'd missed out on the court-mediated negotiation, they've still had offers of deadlines to make fairly lowball final payments. One works in a bank, and she just couldn't even afford those payments, so the court eventually ordered salary deductions, which was dealt with through her company and she found out from her HR people. There are some protections. I think, for example, that total deductions are not allowed to leave her with less than 20,000 baht a month. So it becomes a queue, with the credit companies having to wait their turns. 

There's some very good information online in Thai, which I went through with my friend in the bank because she had no idea of what should happen. But it's gradually working out for her. Not quite as much as your wife has run up but not far off.

[worgeordie]

The Geordie comedian "the little waster" Bobby Thompson ,

used to say" let them that's owed worry" , another one, the

debt collector used to come to the door , with the book open !

If you love her and intend to stay with her ,maybe you should

help her out ,as you say she is never going to get out of that

amount of debt by herself....

 

regards Worgeordie

 

[NorthernRyland]

17 minutes ago, Celsius said:

I personally knew a girl who got a permanent residency in another country and could not leave Thailand unless the debt was paid off. In the end the husband had to foot the bill which was about half of the amount your wife owes (or maybe more with interest and penalties piled up).

Just spoke with my wife and says if you let the debt lapse and you get a summons then they can stop you from leaving the country so you need to leave first before you plan to stop making payments. Horribly predatory laws they have over here. One time 3 years ago or so she needed 50k to avoid this happening if I recall correctly.

 

I could pay off like 150,000 baht for one of the cards and that would give her some space to manage the rest without rotating the balances to pay the other ones off. She has a good job making 50k/month in Chiang Mai and has housing through her employer so she'd be doing really otherwise.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Though they'd missed out on the court-mediated negotiation, they've still had offers of deadlines to make fairly lowball final payments. One works in a bank, and she just couldn't even afford those payments, so the court eventually ordered salary deductions, which was dealt with through her company and she found out from her HR people. There are some protections. I think, for example, that total deductions are not allowed to leave her with less than 20,000 baht a month. So it becomes a queue, with the credit companies having to wait their turns. 

There's some very good information online in Thai, which I went through with my friend in the bank because she had no idea of what should happen. But it's gradually working out for her. Not quite as much as your wife has run up but not far off.

OK now this is helpful. Same thing in the US which I did personally. If you stop making payments and ignore them they'll come begging at the end. My wives situation is she's literally at 90% of her income and needs to rotate cards so she's always effectively bankrupt.

 

Send any links in Thai if you have them. I can read Thai ok enough and if know the language to ask I can search on YouTube and listen instead of reading (which is far slower for me).

[KhaoNiaw]

6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

OK now this is helpful. Same thing in the US which I did personally. If you stop making payments and ignore them they'll come begging at the end. My wives situation is she's literally at 90% of her income and needs to rotate cards so she's always effectively bankrupt.

 

Send any links in Thai if you have them. I can read Thai ok enough and if know the language to ask I can search on YouTube and listen instead of reading (which is far slower for me).

Here's a few links I've just googled up that should start to give you some idea of how things work:
https://www.moneyguru.co.th/financial-tips/articles/เบี้ยวหนี้บัตรเครดิต 
https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/social/938753 
https://www.moneyguru.co.th/credit-card/articles/หนี้บัตรเครดิตมีอายุความกี่ปี 
 

[Pooreye]

My wife have some friends with seriuos debts from nothing, just bought some <deleted> on credit for 10-20 years… She dont understand why they never seems listen to her, she tried to explain 1000 times about the debt trap.

One friend have made bankrupcy, next year she is finally free I am told.

She had a mortgaged home too, which she was forced to sell at a loss of course, the balance didnt cover even half of her debts so she filed for bankrucy. That process took about 2 years. Then into a period of about 5 years can not own anything, had to rent a small rathole and drive for Grab with no official income. Now she starts to see the light at the tunnel.

 

 

 

[Sparktrader]

31 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Just spoke with my wife and says if you let the debt lapse and you get a summons then they can stop you from leaving the country so you need to leave first before you plan to stop making payments. Horribly predatory laws they have over here. One time 3 years ago or so she needed 50k to avoid this happening if I recall correctly.

 

I could pay off like 150,000 baht for one of the cards and that would give her some space to manage the rest without rotating the balances to pay the other ones off. She has a good job making 50k/month in Chiang Mai and has housing through her employer so she'd be doing really otherwise.

Do that then. Pay the 150k. Not that much.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, Pooreye said:

One friend have made bankrupcy, next year she is finally free I am told.

She had a mortgaged home too, which she was forced to sell at a loss of course, the balance didnt cover even half of her debts so she filed for bankrucy. That process took about 2 years. Then into a period of about 5 years can not own anything, had to rent a small rathole and drive for Grab with no official income. Now she starts to see the light at the tunnel.

At least she bought something useful like a house! How did she go through bankruptcy btw? I get the impression here that doesn't exist in Thailand.

 

I forgot to mention, actually my wives only asset is her car which she makes payments on so she'd have to sell that first. It's only a few years old now and she's paid maybe 250k or so on it. 

[Olav Seglem]

90 % of salary aint that bad.

She has to di what people in west do-pay off, spend less,not complain at learn from her mistake like other (mostly) do.

Guess nobody forced her to take the loans snd she had a good time spending the money...

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

They make all these treats to in the US. I one time got a credit card when I was 18 for $600. Of course being a stupid kid I ran it up to full and then didn't pay it back. All they did was call and complain. Nothing they can do except report you to credit agencies.

I actually don't have a credit rating, because I have never had a personal credit card.

I've had a company credit card, was glad to get rid of it because I was always worried about overstepping the mark.

My father worked in a bank, he taught me to never use credit.

Sorry, off topic.

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, Lacessit said:

I actually don't have a credit rating, because I have never had a personal credit card.

I've had a company credit card, was glad to get rid of it because I was always worried about overstepping the mark.

My father worked in a bank, he taught me to never use credit.

Sorry, off topic.

Same as me. 100% agree. However, I did have a problem a couple years ago I went back to the US for a job and they wouldn't let me rent without my parents co-signing for me even though I was making 50k/year and renting a studio for $600/month. 

[NorthernRyland]

49 minutes ago, Olav Seglem said:

90 % of salary aint that bad.

She has to di what people in west do-pay off, spend less,not complain at learn from her mistake like other (mostly) do.

Guess nobody forced her to take the loans snd she had a good time spending the money...

Not that bad? I mean she has only 10% of her money left to for other bills. She would be technically bankrupt except she's paying the minimum payment and then using the credit from one card to pay off another. I still don't understand no matter how many times she's explained. I need a diagram or something. 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

Same as me. 100% agree. However, I did have a problem a couple years ago I went back to the US for a job and they wouldn't let me rent without my parents co-signing for me even though I was making 50k/year and renting a studio for $600/month. 

Is that standard practice in the US? IIRC when I rented in Australia all the agent wanted to see was a bank statement and my employer's phone number.

It must be fun looking for a rental in Indonesia, AFAIK it is still one year's rent up front before the tenant is allowed to move in.

 

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Is that standard practice in the US? IIRC when I rented in Australia all the agent wanted to see was  a bank statement and my employer's phone number.

It is but I'm just saying there are some reasons to have credit. People advise I get a credit card and buy things which I pay off at the end of the month so I have some credit history. I don't think I'll be doing that though. Getting a mortgage is more difficult also but I was told I you produce income proof for a few years they accept that all the same as any credit score.

 

Just now, Lacessit said:

It must be fun looking for a rental in Indonesia, AFAIK it is still one year's rent up front before the tenant is allowed to move in.

 

Seriously? that sucks. Thailand is great for rentals. Just pay cash and walk right in most the time.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Not that bad? I mean she has only 10% of her money left to for other bills. She would be technically bankrupt except she's paying the minimum payment and then using the credit from one card to pay off another. I still don't understand no matter how many times she's explained. I need a diagram or something. 

There are companies in the West that assist credit card debtors by consolidating all the cards into one loan, usually at much lower interest rates. I don't know if that can be done in Thailand; however, IMO it is worth exploring because it is probably the interest rates that have her trapped in a vicious cycle.