HYDROGEN cars are here ! - Hyundai

[placeholder]

  On 10/31/2022 at 10:12 AM, tgw said:

so could you explain how electrolysis-based hydrogen production could be cheaper than aluminium-gallium based production ?

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Well, each round of gallium-aluminium generates only 0.54% of its weight in hydrogen. Then it has to be recycled to be used again. That takes energy. So it could be less efficient than electrolysis based production of hydrogen.

 

[matchar]

Who needs hydrogen when you have CNG. I've been using it in my car for years, currently 16.64 baht/kg.

[tgw]

  On 10/31/2022 at 3:38 PM, placeholder said:

Well, each round of gallium-aluminium generates only 0.54% of its weight in hydrogen. Then it has to be recycled to be used again. That takes energy. So it could be less efficient than electrolysis based production of hydrogen.

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I did some reading, and it seems that aluminium-gallium is indeed still far from being an efficient method for hydrogen production ????

[seedy]

  On 10/31/2022 at 4:10 PM, matchar said:

Who needs hydrogen when you have CNG. I've been using it in my car for years, currently 16.64 baht/kg.

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Two of ours run LPG since new. One 220K one 260K - no issues

16.5 THB per liter if memory serves.

But don't tell the EV Zealots this - they will push for a ban on LPG as it comes from that dirty old crude oil, along with medicine, fertilizer, plastic, etc etc etc

 

[placeholder]

  On 11/1/2022 at 12:05 AM, seedy said:

Two of ours run LPG since new. One 220K one 260K - no issues

16.5 THB per liter if memory serves.

But don't tell the EV Zealots this - they will push for a ban on LPG as it comes from that dirty old crude oil, along with medicine, fertilizer, plastic, etc etc etc

 

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And it has only 80+ times the warming power of CO2.

[Gweiloman]

  On 11/1/2022 at 12:05 AM, seedy said:

Two of ours run LPG since new. One 220K one 260K - no issues

16.5 THB per liter if memory serves.

But don't tell the EV Zealots this - they will push for a ban on LPG as it comes from that dirty old crude oil, along with medicine, fertilizer, plastic, etc etc etc

 

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I’m not an EV zealot obviously, since I don’t even own an EV and am only mainly concerned with saving money.

 

LPG seems rather cheap so why aren’t there more such vehicles in Thailand or other parts of the world? Also no car manufacturer that I know off sells a  LPG powered car. Surely they are missing a trick?

 

I see plenty of LPG stations everywhere so range anxiety should not be a problem. 

 

 

[In Full Agreement]

  On 10/27/2022 at 11:43 AM, Gweiloman said:

especially if I have my windows down.

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Funny you say  that.      I'll bet I don't see more than one car out of a hundred that has its windows down.   Probaby more like one out of 500 cars.

[KhunLA]

  On 11/1/2022 at 2:29 AM, Gweiloman said:

why aren’t there more such vehicles in Thailand or other parts of the world?

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Did you ever take a TH taxi that is converted, say from BKK to your hotel, w/luggage ?  Then all is answered ... tanks take up most of the trunk space.

[Gweiloman]

  On 11/1/2022 at 2:45 AM, KhunLA said:

Did you ever take a TH taxi that is converted, say from BKK to your hotel, w/luggage ?  Then all is answered ... tanks take up most of the trunk space.

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But surely that’s a small price to pay for the huge savings in fuel consumption? Just imagine how much roof space you can construct for 350k baht ????

[seedy]

  On 11/1/2022 at 2:45 AM, KhunLA said:

Did you ever take a TH taxi that is converted, say from BKK to your hotel, w/luggage ?  Then all is answered ... tanks take up most of the trunk space.

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Hogwash - your lack of knowledge is very telling.

Raised floor in the back of one of ours only 3cm - what a HUGE loss 555.

 

[Gweiloman]

  On 11/1/2022 at 5:25 AM, seedy said:

Hogwash - your lack of knowledge is very telling.

Raised floor in the back of one of ours only 3cm - what a HUGE loss 555.

 

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What KhunLA said is not incorrect. I have many a time put my luggage in the passenger compartment due to lack of space in the trunk.

 

LPG seems rather cheap so why aren’t there more such vehicles in Thailand or other parts of the world? Also no car manufacturer that I know off sells a  LPG powered car. Surely they are missing a trick?

 

I see plenty of LPG stations everywhere so range anxiety should not be a problem. 

[seedy]

  On 11/1/2022 at 5:28 AM, Gweiloman said:

What KhunLA said is not incorrect.

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It is not correct in all cases.

Did you read my post ? Raised the floor 3cm. Tank capacity 54 liter

[Gweiloman]

  On 11/1/2022 at 7:23 AM, seedy said:

It is not correct in all cases.

Did you read my post ? Raised the floor 3cm. Tank capacity 54 liter

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But correct in the case of taxis I have encountered.

 

 

LPG seems rather cheap so why aren’t there more such vehicles in Thailand or other parts of the world? Also no car manufacturer that I know off sells a  LPG powered car. Surely they are missing a trick?

 

I see plenty of LPG stations everywhere so range anxiety should not be a problem. 

[matchar]

People are getting LPG and CNG (NGV) mixed up.

 

1 litre of LPG only weighs about half a kilo so it's not as cheap as it seems but it's low pressure so the tank is much smaller and takes up less space.

 

NGV is under high pressure so the tanks are very large and the range is only around 200km but it's good for city driving as long as you live near an NGV station.

 

Most taxis use CNG (NGV) because it's by far the cheapest option.

[matchar]

Hydrogen cars use an even higher pressure than CNG so the tank is also quite large but the cars are designed with space to accommodate these.

 

With CNG conversions you lose a lot of boot space and refueling takes longer, especially when there's a long queue of taxis.

[seedy]

  On 11/1/2022 at 11:35 AM, matchar said:

1 litre of LPG only weighs about half a kilo so it's not as cheap as it seems

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No ? My cars cost per Km on LPG is 50% of the cost per Km of 95

[Boomer6969]

  On 10/30/2022 at 2:22 PM, tgw said:

And hydrogen also breaks down into water vapour in the stratosphere, which also contributes to the greenhouse effect,” he added.

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Hilarious, implies water is a component of hydrogen. 

[matchar]

  On 11/2/2022 at 12:06 AM, seedy said:

No ? My cars cost per Km on LPG is 50% of the cost per Km of 95

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You could be right although the price of 95 varies a lot and the government have been reducing the LPG subsidy as of late.

 

How much is one litre of LPG now?

 

But one litre of LPG is around 0.5 kg and one litre of 95 is around 0.75 kg so you can't only compare the prices at the pump.

 

LPG works out cheaper than 95 but CNG is the cheapest at 16.6 baht/kg.

[seedy]

  On 11/2/2022 at 10:24 AM, matchar said:

You could be right although the price of 95 varies a lot and the government have been reducing the LPG subsidy as of late.

How much is one litre of LPG now?

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I am right - I track fuel consumption.

16.70 THB per liter in CNX 22 Oct

 

[seedy]

Japanese breakthrough in hydrogen production.

 

[KhunLA]

  On 11/6/2022 at 10:31 AM, seedy said:

Japanese breakthrough in hydrogen production.

 

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Don't waste your time, a big nothing.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Three high-pressure fuel tanks are cleverly packaged in the rear of NEXO, with a combined 156-litre capacity and the ability to hold up to 6.33kg of hydrogen at a pressure of 700 bar.

 

Impractical huge fuel tanks and a nasty crash could easily make airbags and seat belts redundant features, because you are already in the next world. 

[KhunLA]

  On 11/6/2022 at 10:31 AM, seedy said:

Japanese breakthrough in hydrogen production.

 

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I didn't realize the hydrogen used today, is sourced from burning fossil fuel, as pointed out in the vid.  Only good thing in the vid.

 

Makes hydrogen an even sillier option.

[PFMills]

  On 11/2/2022 at 12:06 AM, seedy said:

No ? My cars cost per Km on LPG is 50% of the cost per Km of 95

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Of course the installation costs need to be taken into account. What did you pay in total for your cars LPG installation. 

 

Annual check and tank replacement etc. What do you think the break even kms was. 

 

Are you still on the original installation package or did you replace at some date. 

[matchar]

  On 11/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, PFMills said:

Of course the installation costs need to be taken into account. What did you pay in total for your cars LPG installation. 

 

Annual check and tank replacement etc. What do you think the break even kms was. 

 

Are you still on the original installation package or did you replace at some date. 

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I'm having this issue now with my CNG installation but the annual safety check is only around 500 baht usually.

 

Unfortunately due to the high pressure of CNG, the tanks have a lifespan of 20 years. Mine is nearly up and I have been quoted 20,000 baht for a new one.

 

LPG and NGV are both heavily subsidised now which is why they are so cheap, but who knows what the prices will be in 5 to 10 years time. LPG is also used for cooking gas but the price has already gone up quite a lot.

 

Hydrogen will have the same issues with expired tanks because of the high pressure but LPG is probably fine although much more polluting.

[still kicking]

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/toyota-mirai-fuel-cell-vehicle-breaks-world-record/news-story/ee8134c95d0ae585c24c4f268f67e9d4

[DrDave]

  On 10/31/2022 at 5:58 AM, placeholder said:

Currently, 20 states have EV registration fees, ranging from $50 to $200. In states that have higher gas taxes, the $73 national average may not be the appropriate point of comparison. For example, California has an EV fee of $100, but its gas tax system means that EV drivers are not in fact paying more than comparable conventional vehicle drivers. Still, the $200 annual fee in Georgia and West Virginia is far above the annual gas tax paid by the driver of a new conventional vehicle.

https://pluginamerica.org/policy/ev-road-usage-fees/#:~:text=EVs do pay taxes that,and higher municipal excise taxes.

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California charges 53.9 cents per gallon in taxes. Federal tax adds another 18.4 cents, bringing the total taxes to 72.3 cents per gallon.  Assuming the average new ICE car is driven 15,000 miles per year and averages 30 MPG, an ICE driver pays about $360 per year in fuel taxes, while an EV driver pays only a $100 EV registration fee in lieu of fuel taxes. That's quite a shortfall.

[Bandersnatch]

  On 10/29/2022 at 12:35 AM, Bandersnatch said:

The hydrogen fuel cell Toyota Mirai enters Thailand this November

 

The Mirai is expected to be launched in Thailand at a price of between 2-2.3 million baht

 

There currently aren't any Hydrogen filling station in Thailand

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Still waiting for the first H2 car and H2 public filling station (not counting the Chonburi prototype project which cost nearly 100 million baht) to arrive in Thailand 

 

 

Meanwhile the rest of the world is quietly giving up on H2 for transport

 

 

[VocalNeal]

  On 9/20/2023 at 2:14 AM, Bandersnatch said:

Meanwhile the rest of the world is quietly giving up on H2 for transport

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Toyota doesn't seem to think so.????

[JBChiangRai]

  On 9/20/2023 at 2:15 AM, VocalNeal said:

Toyota doesn't seem to think so.????

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Toyota are backing both H2 & BEV.  Their previous Chairman lost his seat for betting on H2 over BEV.

 

Problem with H2 is going to cost you double per mile because of inefficiencies.

 

I would rather be in a BEV when it catches fire as it is invariably a slow start to the ignition, whereas Hydrogen stored under enormous pressure....