Locked out and unpaid

[francie]

Hello,

I was unable to return to Thailand in 2020 due to being “locked out” by the flight ban. The school cancelled my contract and I have not been paid salary owed.

I did return to Thailand recently and went to the labor office. They took some details but never got back to me.

I have tried to contact the school but got no response. 

There is also a related issue that my old non-b visa has expired but has not been cancelled. I don't know why this is necessary but Immigration told me it needs to be done if I want another non-b visa. This required a document from the school but they refused to provide it.

Anyone any suggestions how I can recover the unpaid salary and fix the visa issue? Thanks in advance,

Francie

 

[nightfox]

If you were in Thailand why not go to the school in person to demand your money as labor boards are useless here. If the school is playing dumb and says they don't owe you any money then I would contact a lawyer. 

[Onerak]

24 minutes ago, francie said:

Anyone any suggestions how I can recover the unpaid salary and fix the visa issue?

How much money we are talking about? How many months of unpaid salary? 

[FritsSikkink]

45 minutes ago, nightfox said:

If you were in Thailand why not go to the school in person to demand your money as labor boards are useless here. If the school is playing dumb and says they don't owe you any money then I would contact a lawyer. 

Labour office isn't useless at all here.

[FritsSikkink]

What was the situation when you left? Did you inform the school? Did you leave on holiday with the intention to come back? Did you just leave and left the kids without teacher? What money are you owed? Why did it take you 2 years to come back? What did you do during these 2 years to get the money you are owed?

[nightfox]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Labour office isn't useless at all here.

Yea, will see how long it takes or if they do anything at all to help this guy get paid. I know many English teachers who got stiffed by their employees here who went to the labor office to complain who only took their report and did nothing about it just like the OP, they never got back to him as not sure where your from but where I come from their useless if they can't help you. 

[TheFishman1]

The labor board is very good if you are a thia I knew one lady that worked for a company and they didn’t pay her 25 or 30,000 she went to the labor board in less than a week and a half the company paid her in full TIT

[mikeymike100]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Labour office isn't useless at all here.

It would depend if you are  Thai or not?

[FritsSikkink]

23 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

It would depend if you are  Thai or not?

No it doesn't

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, nightfox said:

Yea, will see how long it takes or if they do anything at all to help this guy get paid. I know many English teachers who got stiffed by their employees here who went to the labor office to complain who only took their report and did nothing about it just like the OP, they never got back to him as not sure where your from but where I come from their useless if they can't help you. 

I know several foreigners and Thai's who got what they deserved thanks to the Labour office helping out. 

The OP claims he is owned money, would first like to know why he thinks so. He might be right, he may be wrong, can't say that from his post.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Labour office isn't useless at all here.

Have you actually been to the labour complaints office of the Labour ministry at Din Daeng?

 

It's on the ground floor. If you appraoch the building the signs about 'COMPLAINTS OFFICE' or perhaps it's called 'DISPUTES OFFICE' or similar are very big. You can't miss it.

 

The staff are actually good listeners, friendly and welcoming and many speak excelllent English.

 

They have helped many people. They don't discriminate against foreigners.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

27 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Have you actually been to the labour complaints office of the Labour ministry at Din Daeng?

 

It's on the ground floor. If you appraoch the building the signs about 'COMPLAINTS OFFICE' or perhaps it's called 'DISPUTES OFFICE' or similar are very big. You can't miss it.

 

The staff are actually good listeners, friendly and welcoming and many speak excelllent English.

 

They have helped many people. They don't discriminate against foreigners.

 

 

That is what I said, you are barking up the wrong poster.

[NoshowJones]

11 hours ago, nightfox said:

If you were in Thailand why not go to the school in person to demand your money as labor boards are useless here. If the school is playing dumb and says they don't owe you any money then I would contact a lawyer. 

and lawyers are like the medical profession here in Thailand, as soon as they see a white face the cash registers in their head start ringing.

[Thingamabob]

Go in person to the Labour office. You may just be pleasantly surprised. You will get nowhere unless you get involved in person. Letters, emails etc are a waste of time in this situation.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

That is what I said, you are barking up the wrong poster.

My error, sorry.

[Kalasin Jo]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

they see a white face the cash registers in their head start ringing.

Just doctors and lawyers? And just in Thailand? I think anyone of whatever colour and/ or nationality

going private anywhere is likely to set off the cash registers. The only difference as to how loudly they ring may be the country, their location in it, their professional and financial experience and expectations of the professional  and the client. I have been both.

[Colabamumbai]

Labour office got my money quickly from the school. 

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Just doctors and lawyers? And just in Thailand? I think anyone of whatever colour and/ or nationality

going private anywhere is likely to set off the cash registers. The only difference as to how loudly they ring may be the country, their location in it, their professional and financial experience and expectations of the professional  and the client. I have been both.

No not just doctors and lawyers, and not just in Thailand. and you do make a sensible post.

[francie]

Hello again,

A big thank you to everyone who gave suggestions/ideas.  I now want to give more detail on my problem and try to answer queries. 

I had been a teacher at the school for 3 years with yearly extensions. I had permission (verbal) to go on holiday during the school break from March to May 2020. My contract was due to end in September 2020. I was informed by email of the termination of my contract in June 2020 and was not given formal notice. I am owed about 150,000 baht in unpaid salary (4 months salary as the school did not reopen until 1st July 2020).

I did make several attempts to return by scheduled flight but these were cancelled due to the ban.

I then tried to return through the special flights arranged for stranded foreigners but the school refused to provide a letter to support my application.

During my absence, I obtained legal advice from a reputable Thai firm (by email). They told me that as I did not have written permission to go on holiday, the school were legally correct to end my contract. However, in previous years, verbal permission had always been enough.

I managed to return to Thailand this year when restrictions were eased and went in person to the local labor office for help. I am convinced this was the correct office to go to but still was sent to 2 other offices. I feel I got the runaround and was never contacted about my case. 

Hope this answers most of the queries and thanks again to everyone for their input. I do intend to follow up on some of the suggestions...

Francie

 

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, nightfox said:

Yea, will see how long it takes or if they do anything at all to help this guy get paid. I know many English teachers who got stiffed by their employees here who went to the labor office to complain who only took their report and did nothing about it just like the OP, they never got back to him as not sure where your from but where I come from their useless if they can't help you. 

Are you an English language teacher?

[Iamfalang]

20 minutes ago, francie said:

They told me that as I did not have written permission to go on holiday, the school were legally correct to end my contract.

went to the labor board once, they were useless (IMO).  sat, listened to me talk to my old school, did nothing, I had to do all the negotiations, had to take maybe 40% or less (long time ago) and then had to sign some forms.   felt very, very useless.      second time I had to email labor about a bad contract.  Both parties signed, they then changed things and I didn't agree.....another headache.  labor basically said, 'no work permit with them' (true, only signed contract and then headaches) so nothing.   then another school changed another contract, only verbal.  i didn't agree with the change, they didn't care.  i didn't do anything.   

 

The school will find a way to end your contract.  If it involves money, they will fight it.   Odds of getting that salary is probably 0%, even if you spend 10 to 20k on a good lawyer.  plus all the time.   and don't work in that same province.   

 

remember the story of the Brit who hired 18, EIGHTEEN, lawyers before one didn't steal his money.   crazy situation, and he broke out of jail (youtube will find his documentary).   yea, I've only heard of one falang who had luck with a labor department.  only one.  

[nightfox]

53 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Are you an English language teacher?

Nope, hope your not either as being from Liverpool and all as I would request for a refund if I was a parent. 

[herfiehandbag]

I was asked to take early retirement, as an injury led to surgery which meant I lost much of the use of my foot ( walking with a stick, struggling with stairs) and frankly, the school got bored with the logistics of accomodating me. The sum they offered was somewhat less than the one which I had worked out I was due, (after advice from the Labour Office); I suggested we took the matter to the Labour Office, whereupon the school settled! I think they have a good reputation here!

[Scott]

In the last three cases in which I was involved, 2 were won by the teacher and one was won by the school.  Two employees were challenging the school for unfair dismissal.  They were dismissed for what I would say were questionable reasons.  I refused to sign a letter of termination since the grounds were what I considered not sufficient to terminate.  The school terminated them anyway.  They sued.  They won.  One was paid until the end of the contract which was 5 months pay, if my memory serves me right.  The other received 3 months pay -- I have no idea why there was a difference between the two other than one employee had worked at the school for quite a number of years and the other was in the first year of employment but well past probation.

 

The other case was over money that was withheld at the start of employment and was to go to the employee upon completion of the contract.   The employee lost because it was deemed to be a difference in pay -- In short, the employee was paid one salary amount during probation and upon completion of the 3 months probation, the salary was increased by 3,000 baht.  The difference in pay was 9,000 baht.  The school, at it's discretion, would give 9,000 baht to employees when they resigned from the school and had completed the contract.  The employee had completed a contract and had started a new term and then left without notice. 

 

The labor ministry determined that it was a difference in pay between the probationary period and the regular salary and it was not owed or earned by the employee.  So, he did not win. 

 

In the last case, the labor mediator did not look kindly on leaving without notification.  The school was also advised to consider the manner in which the contract was worded to avoid further problems.

 

In this situation, I have no idea how it would work out, but they don't seem to be inclined to pay out people when they did not return to work, but that is just a guess.  

 

[geisha]

Probably a lost cause not worth fighting. You did not have written permission to leave, and it looks as if the school closed due to Covid shortly after. ? You are claiming pay for the 4 months you did not work, and were not in Thailand. ?  A bit late in trying to make a claim in my view. 

[FritsSikkink]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:29 AM, scorecard said:

My error, sorry.

no problem 

[FritsSikkink]

On 10/27/2022 at 6:52 PM, francie said:

Hello again,

A big thank you to everyone who gave suggestions/ideas.  I now want to give more detail on my problem and try to answer queries. 

I had been a teacher at the school for 3 years with yearly extensions. I had permission (verbal) to go on holiday during the school break from March to May 2020. My contract was due to end in September 2020. I was informed by email of the termination of my contract in June 2020 and was not given formal notice. I am owed about 150,000 baht in unpaid salary (4 months salary as the school did not reopen until 1st July 2020).

I did make several attempts to return by scheduled flight but these were cancelled due to the ban.

I then tried to return through the special flights arranged for stranded foreigners but the school refused to provide a letter to support my application.

During my absence, I obtained legal advice from a reputable Thai firm (by email). They told me that as I did not have written permission to go on holiday, the school were legally correct to end my contract. However, in previous years, verbal permission had always been enough.

I managed to return to Thailand this year when restrictions were eased and went in person to the local labor office for help. I am convinced this was the correct office to go to but still was sent to 2 other offices. I feel I got the runaround and was never contacted about my case. 

Hope this answers most of the queries and thanks again to everyone for their input. I do intend to follow up on some of the suggestions...

Francie

 

You don't have any paperwork that they gave you a holiday and you never returned on time. So you abandoned your job. They owe you nothing. Pretty normal that the Labour office didn't follow up on it. You want getting paid while doing nothing in your home country? Welcome to the real world where you actually have to work to earn some money.

[FritsSikkink]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:11 PM, Iamfalang said:

went to the labor board once, they were useless (IMO).  sat, listened to me talk to my old school, did nothing, I had to do all the negotiations, had to take maybe 40% or less (long time ago) and then had to sign some forms.   felt very, very useless.      second time I had to email labor about a bad contract.  Both parties signed, they then changed things and I didn't agree.....another headache.  labor basically said, 'no work permit with them' (true, only signed contract and then headaches) so nothing.   then another school changed another contract, only verbal.  i didn't agree with the change, they didn't care.  i didn't do anything.   

 

The school will find a way to end your contract.  If it involves money, they will fight it.   Odds of getting that salary is probably 0%, even if you spend 10 to 20k on a good lawyer.  plus all the time.   and don't work in that same province.   

 

remember the story of the Brit who hired 18, EIGHTEEN, lawyers before one didn't steal his money.   crazy situation, and he broke out of jail (youtube will find his documentary).   yea, I've only heard of one falang who had luck with a labor department.  only one.  

So you brake the law by working without a work permit and you want justice, start by obeying the law yourself in the first place. That you only know 1 person says nothing.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:54 PM, nightfox said:

Nope, hope your not either as being from Liverpool and all as I would request for a refund if I was a parent. 

Which Liverpool are you (wrongly) assuming that I'm form?  

[puchooay]

On 10/26/2022 at 7:34 PM, nightfox said:

Yea, will see how long it takes or if they do anything at all to help this guy get paid. I know many English teachers who got stiffed by their employees here who went to the labor office to complain who only took their report and did nothing about it just like the OP, they never got back to him as not sure where your from but where I come from their useless if they can't help you. 

If you have a good case, contract and sll the correct paperwork Department of Labour will help. I've seen it many times. 

 

If the local department decide not VTO help obe should refer themselves to the HO in Bangkok.

 

There are many cases where the employee, both foreign and Thai, believe they have a case but don't. 

 

A legal contract of employment will be in Thai. I wonder how many of those teachers you know carefully read their contract or got a reliable person to read it for them.