China Covid: Millions back in lockdown as Beijing doubles down on zero-Covid

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Doubt it. Lots of people vaccinated with Pfizer and/or Moderna are still catching Covid, including friends and family in UK and Switzerland.

"Lots of people" is your idea of a scientifically valid statement? It been established repeatedly by epidemiologists beyond all reasonable doubt that the vaccines the Chinese use are not as effective as the ones most commonly deployed in the West. What's more, the Chinese have done a far worse job getting their elderly vaccinated than have most nations with the means to do so.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, eisfeld said:

Not a good memory then. They don't have to admit because they never claimed it would prevent infection - same like any vaccine before. The vaccine just primes the immune system for the fight - it's not an invisible force field. Why are we in 2022 still talking about this?

LOL. I'm pretty sure that when the nightmare started it was being claimed that the vaccine would keep us safe. That's my memory of a long time ago, and I don't have a link.

Nobody that gave me a vaccine ( other than the flu jab ) previously told me that it wasn't going to give me life time cover eg polio or smallpox.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Lots of people" is your idea of a scientifically valid statement? It been established repeatedly by epidemiologists beyond all reasonable doubt that the vaccines the Chinese use are not as effective as the ones most commonly deployed in the West. What's more, the Chinese have done a far worse job getting their elderly vaccinated than have most nations with the means to do so.

In NZ, a highly vaccinated country with mainly pfizer, 16,399 cases reported in a week. I'd say that's a lot.

 

https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

In the last week New cases reported 16399

[2baht]

13 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

Get over it already. 

 they are doing the world a favor by not letting their people travel, keep up the restriction! Great!!!

Edited October 29, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsubstantiated claim removed

[eisfeld]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I'm pretty sure that when the nightmare started it was being claimed that the vaccine would keep us safe. That's my memory of a long time ago, and I don't have a link.

Nobody that gave me a vaccine ( other than the flu jab ) previously told me that it wasn't going to give me life time cover eg polio or smallpox.

Like I said, not the best memory ???? None of the manufacturers claimed it would prevent infection, neither did anyone with serious experience in vaccines or immunology. BTW some vaccines do indeed provide lifetime coverage but it doesn't mean all vaccines are like that. The Covid vaccines unfortunately don't have 100% protection and have a lifetime measured in months. Nonetheless they probably saved millions of lives. But really those are basics that after two pandemic years should be common knowledge.

 

If you want to read more about vaccines lifetimes this might be a start: https://www.science.org/content/article/how-long-do-vaccines-last-surprising-answers-may-help-protect-people-longer

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by eisfeld

[JeffersLos]

7 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

’m pretty certain China has less deaths per capita than your home country. I wonder who’s the stupid one.

No wondering here, it's perfectly clear. ????

[Walker88]

13 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I doubt XJP will give your advice any consideration. China, as a sovereign nation, has the right to do as it wishes, without interference from external sources.

Yes. There's nothing like a self-appointed govt, answerable to no one, corralling 1.3 billion people into doing exactly what control freaks demand.

 

Humans are not meant to be free and have any say in their governance. 1.3 billion Chinese exist merely to feed the ego and power fetishes of a guy who periodically gets dipped into a vat of Black hair dye. Who are those 1.3 billion who think they have any right whatsoever to decide how to live their lives ! The audacity of the minions !

[Gweiloman]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Yes. There's nothing like a self-appointed govt, answerable to no one, corralling 1.3 billion people into doing exactly what control freaks demand.

 

Humans are not meant to be free and have any say in their governance. 1.3 billion Chinese exist merely to feed the ego and power fetishes of a guy who periodically gets dipped into a vat of Black hair dye. Who are those 1.3 billion who think they have any right whatsoever to decide how to live their lives ! The audacity of the minions !

Obviously, you know nothing about the political system of China. Plenty of resources online.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Obviously, you know nothing about the political system of China. Plenty of resources online.

I know enough to be happy not born poor Chinese.

[Walker88]

There are only two possibilities at play here, and one is conspiratorial.

 

The [Chinese] are doing this simply because they are control freaks and feel corralling people like people are just cattle makes [them] feel all masculine. Xi is not so stupid to think he can control a virus that began in Wuhan and spread to every country on Earth and infected more than half of humanity. Also, the [Chinese] are so insecure they were way to slow to tell the world what was happening, and that prevented the world from taking quick precautions, probably resulting in millions of unnecessary deaths. Of course pride is more important than outsiders.

 

The second possibility---conspiratorial---is that Covid is a bio weapon that slipped out of the lab and they know it will keep mutating until it becomes especially virulent. of course, if that's true, it will still spread unless China 100% closes its own borders. Nobody in or out.

 

Of the two, I'm 99% on the side of Control Freaks and 1% grand conspiracy.

[Walker88]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Obviously, you know nothing about the political system of China. Plenty of resources online.

I know that it is a self-appointed govt where a few factions battle each other for control, the people be damned. 1.3 billion Chinese people have ZERO say in how they are governed.

 

Bo Xilai was in the wrong faction and paid the price in the power struggle with xi's faction.

 

(Aside: Bo Xilai had a "map of China" on his office wall. The map included HK, Taiwan and---get this---Myanmar. This was told to me by an very old, very short, former roving diplomat with a distinctive accent. One guess as to his name.)

 

I also know they are all wildly corrupt on a scale that would make the typical Western politician in a democracy look like a mere posseur.

 

You probably think the democratic nation of Taipei is a 'renegade province', when the [Chinese] haven't controlled it for even one second in their entire sordid reign.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Obviously, you know nothing about the political system of China. Plenty of resources online.

It's a country where citing confidential government economic statistics is a capital crime. So not exactly friendly to leaks, is it?

[onthedarkside]

Several off-topic posts have been removed.

 

The recent discussion here is veering away from the topic of the thread -- China's COVID control policies.

 

This thread is not a debate on the merits of the current Chinese political system or the U.S. government... Please try to keep future posting on-topic.

[candide]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

There are only two possibilities at play here, and one is conspiratorial.

 

The [Chinese] are doing this simply because they are control freaks and feel corralling people like people are just cattle makes the commies feel all masculine. Xi is not so stupid to think he can control a virus that began in Wuhan and spread to every country on Earth and infected more than half of humanity. Also, the [Chinese] are so insecure they were way to slow to tell the world what was happening, and that prevented the world from taking quick precautions, probably resulting in millions of unnecessary deaths. Of course commie pride is more important than outsiders.

 

The second possibility---conspiratorial---is that Covid is a bio weapon that slipped out of the lab and they know it will keep mutating until it becomes especially virulent. of course, if that's true, it will still spread unless China 100% closes its own borders. Nobody in or out.

 

Of the two, I'm 99% on the side of Control Freaks and 1% grand conspiracy.

It's about control, That's how they are. The CP cannot stand not having control of anything and It's even worse with Xi. That's why they cracked down on Alibaba and other digital giants. They could not stand having this sector flourishing without controlling it.

The issue is that they have bragged so much about having stopped the diffusion of Covid that they would lose face in case of a large epidemic in Thailand.

And It's a quasi impossible mission. The recent variants such as Omicron can diffuse more easily and faster and cannot be eradicated. It will be a continuous assault. Unlike other countries, they don't have a large share of the population which is at least partly immunized by prior infection, the most at risk people have not died already, and their vaccine is not very good (at least up to now).

In other words, they are screwed. It's either a large epidemic leading to a very embarrassing loss of face, or an unending succession of lockdowns.

[stevenl]

17 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Doubt it. Lots of people vaccinated with Pfizer and/or Moderna are still catching Covid, including friends and family in UK and Switzerland.

COVID vaccines were and are to reduce sickness and death.

[onthedarkside]

A post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims has been removed.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

17 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

UK 42,963 cases, 27 October 2022. My daughter, vaccinated and boosted with western vaccines unfortunately among them. She doesn’t think that covid is finished in the UK.

I did mean finished as in no more restrictions or anything .

The virus is still about , but everything's back to normal in the UK , whilst China is still having lockdowns and other restrictions 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:56 PM, 2baht said:

 they are doing the world a favor by not letting their people travel, keep up the restriction! Great!!!

And this, is actually how lots of people feel.   ????
As in, "we don't really care if covid kills us or whatever other people, the important thing is this, it reduces the giant crowds of Chinese people at Savurnabami Airport when we enter there".      ????

[bobbin]

I hope that this is close enough to the topic to stay up..

 

Google fed me this article, I didn't go looking for it.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/10/covid-origins-investigation-wuhan-lab

 

Vanity Fair coordinated with Pro Publica to research the article, based on a Senate investigation..

 

Makes a pretty convincing argument that it was an accident at a level4 lab that released the original Covid virus.

 

It's a long read.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, bobbin said:

I hope that this is close enough to the topic to stay up..

 

Google fed me this article, I didn't go looking for it.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/10/covid-origins-investigation-wuhan-lab

 

Vanity Fair coordinated with Pro Publica to research the article, based on a Senate investigation..

 

Makes a pretty convincing argument that it was an accident at a level4 lab that released the original Covid virus.

 

It's a long read.

Read the article, I disagree with your conclusion. 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Read the article, I disagree with your conclusion. 

He said only that it was a convincing argument, which is IMO hardly a "conclusion". Of course you can disagree with the article itself.

[2baht]

21 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And this, is actually how lots of people feel.   ????
As in, "we don't really care if covid kills us or whatever other people, the important thing is this, it reduces the giant crowds of Chinese people at Savurnabami Airport when we enter there".      ????

what absolute rubbish, there are more places than Suvarnabhumi Airport!

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He said only that it was a convincing argument, which is IMO hardly a "conclusion". Of course you can disagree with the article itself.

He concludes 'it makes a convincing argument '. I disagree with that conclusion.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And this, is actually how lots of people feel.   ????
As in, "we don't really care if covid kills us or whatever other people, the important thing is this, it reduces the giant crowds of Chinese people at Savurnabami Airport when we enter there".      ????

Either we get sick or even die from covid or we don't, regardless. If Chinese lockdowns reduce the giant crowds of Chinese people at Savurnabami Airport when we enter there all good, IMO.????

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Either we get sick or even die from covid or we don't, regardless. If Chinese lockdowns reduce the giant crowds of Chinese people at Savurnabami Airport when we enter there all good, IMO.????

Not to mention Don Muang....

[bobbin]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

He concludes 'it makes a convincing argument '. I disagree with that conclusion.

You are misquoting me.. please don't do that as it is dishonest if done deliberately.

 

"It makes a pretty convincing argument"

 

"Pretty" in this instance is a qualification.

[KhunBENQ]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:56 AM, 2baht said:

 they are doing the world a favor by not letting their people travel, keep up the restriction! Great!!!

The hard truth

Lock them up until I go through the chimney.

I don't miss them clogging every half interesting spot in this country.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 hours ago, bobbin said:

I hope that this is close enough to the topic to stay up..

 

Google fed me this article, I didn't go looking for it.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/10/covid-origins-investigation-wuhan-lab

 

Vanity Fair coordinated with Pro Publica to research the article, based on a Senate investigation..

 

Makes a pretty convincing argument that it was an accident at a level4 lab that released the original Covid virus.

 

It's a long read.

Is New Senate GOP Covid-19 Pandemic Origin Report More About Politics Than Science?

 

"when the office of Senator Richard Burr (R-N.C.) dropped “An Analysis of the Origins of the COVID-19 Pandemic Interim Report,” just two weeks before the midterm election, you’ve gotta wonder whether this report was more about politics than actually determining what really happened."

...

"Plus, this interim report drew some pretty strong conclusions that usually would require a lot more supporting scientific evidence than the report actually provided."

...

"And Peter Hotez, MD, PhD, Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine, wrote, “My view: a total load of antiscience [bleep],” in the following tweet..."

 

Graphic from the above cited Forbes article:

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/10/29/is-new-senate-gop-covid-19-pandemic-origin-report-more-about-politics-than-science/

Edited October 31, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Republican Senate staff tout lab-leak theory of the pandemic’s origin

Report cites circumstantial evidence and suspicious patterns

...

"“Based on the analysis of the publicly available information, it appears reasonable to conclude that the COVID-19 pandemic was, more likely than not, the result of a research-related incident,” the minority staff concludes in its 35-page report.

 

That conclusion stands in sharp contrast to those of other panels, including from the World Health Organization and U.S. intelligence agencies, which have deemed a zoonotic jump more likely or remained neutral given the lack of direct evidence on the origin of the virus."

 

https://www.science.org/content/article/republican-senate-staff-tout-lab-leak-theory-pandemics-origin

 

[tonbridgebrit]

11 hours ago, 2baht said:

 what absolute rubbish, there are more places than Suvarnabhumi Airport!

 

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Either we get sick or even die from covid or we don't, regardless. If Chinese lockdowns reduce the giant crowds of Chinese people at Savurnabami Airport when we enter there all good, IMO.????

 

8 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Not to mention Don Muang....

So, what lots of people are trying to say, is this. 

"This covid thing has been a blessing in disguise. It's killed some people, and it's been an inconvenience for most people. Them vaccination jabs and all the rest of it. But it's all been worth it.

 

It's cleared out the Chinese tourists at Savurnabami and Don Muang Airport, and also Pattaya, and all over Thailand" .     ????

And,  "oh, they started this covid thing, and it's now biting them on the ___ ,  they're having lockdowns in China, nobody in Europe or America is doing a lockdown, and they're the ones who aren't allowed to leave their own country and turn up in Thailand" .     ????