Biden suggests voting for Republicans is a threat to democracy

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Exactly right.  

It is possible to acknowledge the very real damage and injuries caused by the rioters, without ascribing to them motives and skills they did not have. Sure there were a few yahoos and paranoids who were dreaming fevered dreams of restoring Trump to power. But the vast majority were simply frustrated idiots. 

 

Guys throwing a coup don't leave their guns in the Hampton Inn across the river.

Indeed.

However, it's difficult to reason with those that think all the rioters had to do to take over the country was to hang Mike Pence, and the army would obey them. Think there is something in the oath they took about the constitution, and not swearing to obey whoever is in the White House even if they are clearly illegitimate.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. Pointing out what those candidates intend to do if elected. Overturn elections as was attempted before. 

If they get the expected majority in the house, and incredibly also win enough seats in the senate they could simply impeach Biden ( and Harris ), so no need to overturn an election to get rid of him. I assume an election for POTUS would then have to happen. However I doubt they will have enough senate seats to do that.

Anyway, why would they overturn the election now if Biden's agenda has been stopped by a GOP majority? That's the main things to do IMO.

 

4 Days and counting!

Edited November 4, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

the intention of the few thousand people summoned by Trump

was to attend a demonstration. You think the FBI wouldn't have known if the intention was as you claim?

[coolcarer]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The evidence they were given wasn't sufficient to convince the judge(s) that the case was proven. That doesn't mean that they were not rigged. Could be just second rate lawyers.

Either way it's too late to change POTUS now, but I'd really like to know if it was rigged or not, which could only be decided by a proper bipartisan committee empowered to look at EVERYTHING.

The weakest excuse I’ve ever heard for losing 64 cases. Not enough evidence means just that. Case dismissed. If they had further evidence they could have appealed.

 

But I get it, you can now blame second rate lawyers for all previous loses and any future ones. ????

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

was to attend a demonstration. You think the FBI wouldn't have known if the intention was as you claim?

Digressing much. It's ok if you have have no relevant response to my post. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

doubting with not  a shred of proof is part of the big lie....if you have proof that the election was rigged please do share it with the world...it's been almost two years and we are still waiting to see any proof of any significant election fraud....laughable that people who refuse to accept the results of an election think that is democracy...last time i checked democracy requires that you accept the results of elections and concede that after multiple court cases and investigations turn up zip you man up and admit your side lost rather than whining for two years and trying to install your choice not through the ballot box and courts but in a violent coup attempt

Read my post again - it was about freedom of thought and the right to have it.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Blimey that's rather ignorant of you to not recognize the intention of the few thousand people summoned by Trump to seize and violently remove the government so that he can remain in power. That's how every coups succeed. Seized the government and delegitimize the legal process for usurper. He will then will have the command of all the military and law enforcement agencies. 

Blimey that's rather ignorant of you. There was no summons issued by Trump to seize and violently remove the government.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Blimey that's rather ignorant of you. There was no summons issued by Trump to seize and violently remove the government.

 

 

Trump will reveal his involvement when he testify under oath to the Jan 6 committee. Just appear and state the fact that he has no part in the insurrection. . 

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

Blimey that's rather ignorant of you. There was no summons issued by Trump to seize and violently remove the government.

 

 

THE FACTS: Trump’s speech was a call to action — a call to fight and save the country.

 

“Our country has had enough,” he told those who went on to stage the violent siege of the Capitol. “We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal.”

 

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'

 

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-us-capitol-remarks-221518bc174f9bc3dd6e108e653ed08d

[LosLobo]

17 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Not at all, I just want to know how many. "A mass of guns" says nothing.  And apparently it didn't bother the folks who were questioning him either.  All irrelevant because the guns were all (however many) left in a hotel room across the river, not at the Capitol.  These guys were pretty lousy at insurrection. Bring their guns all the way from Florida and then leave them at the hotel across the river because of Washington DC's strict gun laws.   

 

Does that sound like a serious group of revolutionaries to you?

I suggest that you are being disingenuous by mis-characterizing the Jan 6th to suit the Republican narrative.  It was not a tourist event, a protest or at worse a riot. You are trying to change the meaning of insurrection, and also by saying that it was not a coup you are trying to further confuse the issue.

 

Perhaps we need to visit the facts.

 

The official democratic assertion is that the Jan. 6 insurrection was the 'culmination of an attempted coup'. 

 

 Bennie Thompson says Jan. 6 was 'culmination of an ... - NPR 

 

Definition of an insurrection is "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

 

It does not need guns or to succeed to be true.

 

Insurrection Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

Definition of a coup is "a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government".

 

This event was never described as a "coup" but an "attempted coup". Why waste everyone's time on this?

 

Coup Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

QED

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Read my post again - it was about freedom of thought and the right to have it.

You are free to think what you like.

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I suggest that you are being disingenuous by mis-characterizing the Jan 6th to suit the Republican narrative.  It was not a tourist event, a protest or at worse a riot. You are trying to change the meaning of insurrection, and also by saying that it was not a coup you are trying to further confuse the issue.

 

Perhaps we need to visit the facts.

 

The official democratic assertion is that the Jan. 6 insurrection was the 'culmination of an attempted coup'. 

 

 Bennie Thompson says Jan. 6 was 'culmination of an ... - NPR 

 

Definition of an insurrection is "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government.

 

It does not need guns or to succeed to be true.

 

Insurrection Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

Definition of a coup is "a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics and especially the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government".

 

This event was never described as a "coup" but an "attempted coup". Why waste everyone's time on this?

 

Coup Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

QED

Well, if Bennie Thompson says it, then it must be true /s

 

In any case, it really doesn't matter.  The voters have decided that other issues are far more important in their lives. Biden and the Democrats failed in their attempt to push January 6 as an election issue.  They are just realizing it now but far too late in the campaign. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced and unsubstantiated claims removed

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are free to think what you like.

As are we all. I hope?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

As are we all. I hope?

Yes we are.

 

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

 

Thoughts are by their very nature a private thing.

[vandeventer]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

Wow - obviously a special guest - this will really help to unite the country.

 

Next weeks results will be interesting. 

When the red wave comes in and the investigations start. than the Dems. should be very worried..

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Well, if Bennie Thompson says it, then it must be true /s

 

In any case, it really doesn't matter.  The voters have decided that other issues are far more important in their lives. Biden and the Democrats failed in their attempt to push January 6 as an election issue.  They are just realizing it now but far too late in the campaign. 

Here we go with more deflection and confusion!

I only suggested that the democratic assertion from Bennie Thompson was that the insurrection was an attempted coup not whether it was true or not

 

As for questioning Chairman of the Jan 6th Committee Bennie Thomson's honesty, when the Conspirator-in-Chief who told 33,000 documented lies during his presidency, paradoxical comes to mind.

 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Here we go with more deflection and confusion!

I only suggested that the democratic assertion from Bennie Thompson was that the insurrection was an attempted coup not whether it was true or not

 

As for questioning Chairman of the Jan 6th Committee Bennie Thomson's honesty, when the Conspirator-in-Chief who told 33,000 documented lies during his presidency, paradoxical comes to mind.

 

You know we can play semantic games about what to call the events of January 6, from an energetic fan club meeting to the revenge of Himmler. It really doesn't matter. If you want everyone to call it an insurrection or coup, fine. 

 

The Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) are twisting themselves into knots trying to make it relevant to the voters now, and it simply isn't working.

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced / unsubstantiated claims removed

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Well, if Bennie Thompson says it, then it must be true /s

 

Not trying to confuse the issue at all, trying to clarify it.

 

In any case, it really doesn't matter.  The voters have decided that other issues are far more important in their lives. Biden and the Democrats failed in their attempt to push January 6 as an election issue.  They are just realizing it now but far too late in the campaign. 

What Bennie Thomas said was based on testimonies from Republicans witnesses. 

 

<deleted> voters can vent their frustration by voting in the next election and not by staging an insurrection.

 

Too early to tell whether the Dem messaging is wrong. Threat to democracy resonated by more than half of registered voters. 

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You know we can play semantic games about what to call the events of January 6, from an energetic fan club meeting to the revenge of Himmler. It really doesn't matter. If you want everyone to call it an insurrection or coup, fine. 

 

 The Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) are twisting themselves into knots trying to make it relevant to the voters now, and it simply isn't working.

You'll find the only people keeping the lie going on a daily basis despite 64 court cases showing no evidence are Trump, MAGA. QAnon and conspiracy theorists. For Biden to bring up his suggestion that voting for Republicans is a threat to democracy is more than appropriate.

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You know we can play semantic games about what to call the events of January 6, from an energetic fan club meeting to the revenge of Himmler. It really doesn't matter. If you want everyone to call it an insurrection or coup, fine. 

 

  The Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) are twisting themselves into knots trying to make it relevant to the voters now, and it simply isn't working.

I suggest that presenting the facts is not playing semantics. I never said it was a coup. 

I also suggest that the Conservatives and their press are the one's doing the twisting.

 

I think we need to agree that we disagree. If you think facts don't matter anymore in a Democracy, fine, that is your prerogative.

 

 

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I suggest that presenting the facts is not playing semantics. I never said it was a coup. 

I also suggest that the Conservatives and their press are the one's doing the twisting.

 

I think we need to agree that we disagree. If you think facts don't matter anymore in a Democracy, fine, that is your prerogative.

 

 

Cool , here are some facts from Reuters: The most important problem facing America according to voters:

 

Inflation, jobs/economy, gun violence, abortion, immigration, climate.... in that order. Gee, what seems to be missing?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-ELECTION/ECONOMY-POLL/akvezdbzrpr/

 

How many of these did the President address in his speech?

[pomchop]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I watched the entire thing on tv, live. It was mainly a bunch of people wandering around without even trying to disguise themselves. If it was a coup it had to be the worst coup attempt in history. I'm sure real coup makers laugh hysterically every time the western media describes it as a "coup" attempt.

 

To carry out a coup one needs a means to force the country to submit and quash opposition- did you see tanks in your streets, armed soldiers erecting barricades? Don't think so.

A coup is more than sitting someone in the big chair.

so the next time somebody sprays you  repeatedly with bear spray or pepper spray or tries to kick you in the head be sure and tell them that u don't see any weapons so go right ahead and spray and bash away..maybe u should look up the definition of coup

[LosLobo]

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Cool , here are some facts from Reuters: The most important problem facing America according to voters:

 

Inflation, jobs/economy, gun violence, abortion, immigration, climate.... in that order. Gee, what seems to be missing?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-ELECTION/ECONOMY-POLL/akvezdbzrpr/

 

How many of these did the President address in his speech?

Deflect and divert!

 

So, our conversation is not about your mischaracterization of Jan 6th anymore?

Cheers!

[Hanaguma]

Just now, LosLobo said:

Deflect and divert!

 

So, our conversation is not about your mischaracterization of Jan 6th anymore?

Cheers!

Facts matter.

No deflection. I freely admit the facts of January 6 and am happy the perps are doing time. Just don't think it was a serious attempt at a change of political system or the advent of fascism. 

 

And the deflection and diversion can most clearly be seen in Biden's speech. He said nothing to American voters about the issues they care about. Instead he resorted to the usual fearmongering that has been so poorly received in this campaign.

[Bluespunk]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

They obviously don't agree.

They’re still wrong. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, banjobob said:

 

A second Oath Keeper pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy in the Jan. 6 riot

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/29/1095538077/a-second-oath-keeper-pleaded-guilty-to-seditious-conspiracy-in-the-jan-6-riot

 

Proud Boys leaders charged with seditious conspiracy in 6 January riot

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/06/proud-boys-leaders-charged-seditious-conspiracy-jan-6-riot

 

Ala. man is first convicted of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot

https://www.live5news.com/2022/03/02/ala-man-is-first-convicted-seditious-conspiracy-jan-6-capitol-riot/

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[scorecard]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

They obviously don't agree.

So why haven't these folks laid out solid factual evidence of votes being stolen, vote numbers bein falsified/manipulated (by Americans and/or by the Chinese etc)?  They've had plenty of opportity and plenty of time to lay it all out.

 

They have laid out some 'evidence' but it falls apart in a second and the folks 'laying it out' have zero credibility.

 

The balls in their court, what are they waiting for to prove their claims? 

 

 

[banjobob]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Facts matter.

No deflection. I freely admit the facts of January 6 and am happy the perps are doing time. Just don't think it was a serious attempt at a change of political system or the advent of fascism. 

 

And the deflection and diversion can most clearly be seen in Biden's speech. He said nothing to American voters about the issues they care about. Instead he resorted to the usual fearmongering that has been so poorly received in this campaign.

Biden is the perfect election campaigner purveyor not for his desperate democratic party but for the surging GOP party. Every time he opens his mouth equates to his seriously eroded popularity and approval and is a huge gift to all things GOP midterms victories. He's his own worse enemy.

For a guy who got 81M votes, he sure is desperate with continually threatening, divisivness, demonization of his political opponents and half the electorate and is going to cost him and dems and they will be punished 4 days from now.

[scorecard]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Again Biden is right.

The MAGA people will probably consolidate their power permanently by 24.

Then non MAGA people that thought gas prices which presidents don't control are more important than avoiding a minority rule totalitarian regime as hard to shake off as Putin might regret it but then it will be too late. 

So that leaves the electoral processes etc., of the US in the hands of scaly charlotans who have no hesitation to tells lies, manipulate elections / vote number etc.

 

And where does that leave the intelligent and credible American people? Their country in the hands of trumps naive MAGA followers. 

 

Does that mean large numbers of intelligent, ethical, morally solid Americans will migrate to more credible countries?

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

So that leaves the electoral processes etc., of the US in the hands of scaly charlotans who have no hesitation to tells lies, manipulate elections / vote number etc.

 

And where does that leave the intelligent and credible American people? Their country in the hands of trumps naive MAGA followers. 

 

Does that mean large numbers of intelligent, ethical, morally solid Americans will migrate to more credible countries?

I remember Democrats laughing and singing back in 2016 when Trump won the GOP nomination. They all thought that the Bad Orange Man would be easy to beat, far easier than the seasoned polticians he left in his dust.

 

So, imagine their outrage when he actually won the election against their chosen "most qualified candidate in history"! This I think is the seed of outrage that still drives them to this day. You can see it in how they talk about their fellow Americans, with contempt and sneering scorn. And it will cost them again this election cycle. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed