What low/medium price wine do you recommend.

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, henryford1958 said:

 

I splurge on the 5L boxes 1090 baht. Castle Creek or La Vida. All wine is fruit wine. Breaking news, grapes are a fruit. If you buy in a bar this is what you get, for 150 a glass. Would you pay 4000 for a bottle of beer that tasted a bit better?

Well you can drink whatever you want, and no one is stopping you, and if you prefer the "fruit wine" variety, then so be it.

As for your "breaking news", the international standards for wine dictates that anything else (fruit/juice) that is added to a wine made from grapes means that the resulting liquid has to be called "fruit wine". Different varieties of grapes can be added, or the juice thereof, but any other fruit variety does not fit with the international ruling as regards wine. Hence the reason why the likes of Castle Creek and others have a label on them which says, "red fruit wine product".

 

You could of course contact the organisation which dictates what constitutes "wine" and what doesn't, however I don't think they'll listen to you!

 

And there is a reason I never buy wine in a bar, because the only wine they serve is the poor quality fruit wine variety and I prefer the real stuff. Also if you cannot distinguish between a quality wine and a fruit wine, then you're best off staying with your Castle Creek wine and the like.

[xylophone]

On 11/29/2024 at 6:13 PM, jas007 said:

Wine is expensive in Thailand. For example, they want 999 baht or so for a wine that would be around $11 in the USA.  So there's a big markup, somehow.

 

Anyway, I've tried some of the lower priced wines and they just didn't do it for me.  Not that they're much better, but I've found a few in the 820 to1000 baht range that I sort of like.  They sell both at the Tops Daily stores, although the stock on any given day can vary.

 

I'm having trouble pasting two images.  The other I sometimes buy is Penfolds Bin 2 Shiraz. 999 baht.

 

One of these days I'm going to buy another bottle of Chateau Lafite Rothschild.  I bought one once to go with some pasta.  It was heavenly.  It's really expensive, though, or super expensive, depending on the vintage.  I see thy want 49,600 baht fort a bottle of 2009 vintage here in Thailand. 

Your pic of the Robert Mondavi Vint Cabernet Sauvignon brought back some nice memories for me, because in the early 1990s I was gifted a case of the Robert Mondavi 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve for some work I was doing for a US company and it was the first time I've ever tasted a Mondavi wine, or indeed one from California, and I thought it was absolutely delightful.

 

I hadn't really explored any other wines from the US apart from a lovely Syrah from Washington State Winery, but then I came across my favourite wine at the moment, which is from the US and is a "Gnarly Head" Petite Sirah Authentic Black 2018.

 

It is a full-bodied wine and has really started to open up with a bit of age, although I will say that there is some bottle variation which I found surprising, although also could be my palate!

 

I should really explore more wines from the US although I have tried a couple of Zinfandel wines, but have found that the quality varies quite considerably.

 

Anyway, thanks for posting the wine pic.

[jas007]

37 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Your pic of the Robert Mondavi Vint Cabernet Sauvignon brought back some nice memories for me, because in the early 1990s I was gifted a case of the Robert Mondavi 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve for some work I was doing for a US company and it was the first time I've ever tasted a Mondavi wine, or indeed one from California, and I thought it was absolutely delightful.

 

I hadn't really explored any other wines from the US apart from a lovely Syrah from Washington State Winery, but then I came across my favourite wine at the moment, which is from the US and is a "Gnarly Head" Petite Sirah Authentic Black 2018.

 

It is a full-bodied wine and has really started to open up with a bit of age, although I will say that there is some bottle variation which I found surprising, although also could be my palate!

 

I should really explore more wines from the US although I have tried a couple of Zinfandel wines, but have found that the quality varies quite considerably.

 

Anyway, thanks for posting the wine pic.

California has an extensive "Wince Country."  The weather is just right, apparently.  There's a funny movie about it called "Sideways."  

[LatPhrao]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:12 PM, xylophone said:

Yes it does and is advertised as such, although I will give it its due as it is not too bad, but the tasting reviews on Vivino are poor. Probably ok with spicy Thai food.

 

https://th.wine-now.asia/belleville

To the OP point about 'fruit wine' on label and yours.  This label  is part of the Lie required to get around Thailands ridiculous and unfortunate 'law' which suggests the wine is blended down with a fruit juice other than grape..   If so labelled there is a lower tax/duty on the wine. Helping get it into 399 thb pricing.  The only 'fruit' in these wines is from the wine grape, which is a fruit. 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, LatPhrao said:

To the OP point about 'fruit wine' on label and yours.  This label  is part of the Lie required to get around Thailands ridiculous and unfortunate 'law' which suggests the wine is blended down with a fruit juice other than grape..   If so labelled there is a lower tax/duty on the wine. Helping get it into 399 thb pricing.  The only 'fruit' in these wines is from the wine grape, which is a fruit. 

Sorry, but I can't agree with you and what you stated was part of a "misconception" put around a few years ago.

 

For a start, if the ABV is 10% or thereabouts, then the product will not attract the full tax/duty anyway, so why would a producer lie on the label and to the authorities that it was a fruit wine when it wasn't, because it simply doesn't need to do this when the "wine" has a low ABV%?

 

So the producer and seller of this wine which you believe is really pure wine and has no fruit juice in it, means that producer/importer is actually breaking the law as is the retailer and I don't believe any company would risk that.

 

Furthermore, some of these "fruit wines" are produced in Australia and a wine buyer I know in Australia got back to me (and actually posted on this thread a few years back) with my questions about this "fruit wine" and stated that the producers of "real wine" really did frown upon this practice of adding fruit juice to the grape juice in making the wine, which was against their principles. They stated that this was not what they considered "wine" but was pure cr@p. So it does happen.

 

So what you're trying to say is that the whole "fruit wine" industry is a lie perpetrated by producers in Australia and Thailand, not to mention other countries from which this fruit wine emanates, namely France, Italy, Chile, South Africa and New Zealand to name a few that I can recall.

 

Sorry it is just not feasible and not only the winemakers in Australia who were in touch, but also a senior manager of Wine Connection here admitted to me that in some cases, bulk grape juice was shipped to Vietnam, where it was mixed with pineapple or passionfruit juice in the case of white wine, and sold here as Les Solstices (and still is).

 

And just to make it perfectly clear to you, Siam Winery, in its early correspondence, admitted that it imported bulk grape juice from South Africa and addedl Roselle to the juice before fermenting it, so it attracted the lower tax breaks because it could be labelled "fruit wine".

PS. There was also an article in a magazine a few years back where the author was aghast at the fact the so-called "fruit wine" (Mont Clair) was being sold in UK supermarkets and was positioned next to "real wines" thereby confusing the consumer and strongly condemned this practice.

 

So do you really think that the perpetrators of this "fraud" with regards to mislabelling of wine would risk huge reputational damage and huge fines by lying on the labels – – I don't think so because not only the producers, but the sellers (supermarkets and importers) would sustain fines and brand damage.

 

Edited Monday at 04:46 PM by xylophone

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, jas007 said:

California has an extensive "Wince Country."  The weather is just right, apparently.  There's a funny movie about it called "Sideways."  

I've seen that movie, however IMO there is a far better one called, "Bottle Shock" which is based on a real event and pertaining to, "The Judgement of Paris 1976" which was a shock to the whole wine world, but I won't say more, other than the movie is easy-going/light-hearted with a few other events woven into it, but the base of it is true and is well worth watching........and Alan Rickman stars in it!!

[LatPhrao]

13 hours ago, xylophone said:

Sorry, but I can't agree with you and what you stated was part of a "misconception" put around a few years ago.

 

For a start, if the ABV is 10% or thereabouts, then the product will not attract the full tax/duty anyway, so why would a producer lie on the label and to the authorities that it was a fruit wine when it wasn't, because it simply doesn't need to do this when the "wine" has a low ABV%?

 

So the producer and seller of this wine which you believe is really pure wine and has no fruit juice in it, means that producer/importer is actually breaking the law as is the retailer and I don't believe any company would risk that.

 

Furthermore, some of these "fruit wines" are produced in Australia and a wine buyer I know in Australia got back to me (and actually posted on this thread a few years back) with my questions about this "fruit wine" and stated that the producers of "real wine" really did frown upon this practice of adding fruit juice to the grape juice in making the wine, which was against their principles. They stated that this was not what they considered "wine" but was pure cr@p. So it does happen.

 

So what you're trying to say is that the whole "fruit wine" industry is a lie perpetrated by producers in Australia and Thailand, not to mention other countries from which this fruit wine emanates, namely France, Italy, Chile, South Africa and New Zealand to name a few that I can recall.

 

Sorry it is just not feasible and not only the winemakers in Australia who were in touch, but also a senior manager of Wine Connection here admitted to me that in some cases, bulk grape juice was shipped to Vietnam, where it was mixed with pineapple or passionfruit juice in the case of white wine, and sold here as Les Solstices (and still is).

 

And just to make it perfectly clear to you, Siam Winery, in its early correspondence, admitted that it imported bulk grape juice from South Africa and addedl Roselle to the juice before fermenting it, so it attracted the lower tax breaks because it could be labelled "fruit wine".

PS. There was also an article in a magazine a few years back where the author was aghast at the fact the so-called "fruit wine" (Mont Clair) was being sold in UK supermarkets and was positioned next to "real wines" thereby confusing the consumer and strongly condemned this practice.

 

So do you really think that the perpetrators of this "fraud" with regards to mislabelling of wine would risk huge reputational damage and huge fines by lying on the labels – – I don't think so because not only the producers, but the sellers (supermarkets and importers) would sustain fines and brand damage.

 

ROFL  yes exactly.  It's a ruse recognized on both sides.  Welcome to Thailand, if you hadn't noticed.   And just to be clear my comments are exclusively about pure  French wine channeled in bulk into an Asian country (Vietnam), bottled and labelled there without any manipulation of the wine and then sold into Thailand under lowered taxation/duty  schemes available to co-operating Asia countries.    Landing on the Thai retail shelf at the bargain price of 399 thb or there abouts.   Enjoy a glass of Belleville's  pure French wines!     

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, LatPhrao said:

ROFL  yes exactly.  It's a ruse recognized on both sides.  Welcome to Thailand, if you hadn't noticed.   And just to be clear my comments are exclusively about pure  French wine channeled in bulk into an Asian country (Vietnam), bottled and labelled there without any manipulation of the wine and then sold into Thailand under lowered taxation/duty  schemes available to co-operating Asia countries.    Landing on the Thai retail shelf at the bargain price of 399 thb or there abouts.   Enjoy a glass of Belleville's  pure French wines!     

Well there is a flaw in your argument because if the French wine was sent to Vietnam in bulk to be bottled, because of the "lower taxation/duty schemes available to cooperating Asia countries" it would not need to have the words "fruit wine" included on the back label to qualify for the tax break you mention!!

 

Indeed this article in the magazine "The Londoner" explains a little about the confusing situation with regards to buying wine in Thailand and it does state the following: –

 

A few years back, Siam Winery began selling Montclair “Celebration White and Red” with a label declaring, “From the Breede River Valley in South Africa.” As in the other blended wines being sold, consumers have to turn to the back label to read that the wine in the bottle is “Fruit Wine” and “Produced and bottled by Siam Winery.”

There are now seven other fruit wine labels on the Thai market: Belleville, Berri Estates and Cask 88 (Aussie Red and White), from Australia; Corte Antica, from Italy; Finca De Malpica from Spain; Mar Sol, from Chile; and Peter Vella, a low-tier wine produced by the Gallo Winery, California. With the exception of Belleville and Corte Antica, all of these fruit wines appear to come out of Siam Winery.

That article includes Belleville wine as a fruit wine, so somebody is wrong, somewhere, and as another poster, Partington said, "Obviously you are correct and LatPhrao is not......."

 

I also take offence at your description of me as a "tasting room tourist" which is a demeaning term to someone who has bought many of the Bordeaux Cru wines, en Primeur going back to the 1970s, visited vineyards/châteaux in France, Australia and New Zealand and been invited as a guest to such properties as Château Lynch-Bages, Château La Bastide and have been asked to give feedback on a particular wine which was about to be launched onto the market in France.

 

I accompanied a New Zealand-based French wine importer on a month long visit to meet his French wine suppliers and took in all of the regions that produce notable wine, ranging from wine produced in concrete vats in the Languedoc to the computer-controlled wine production in Ch.Pichon Baron Longueville, Bordeaux.

 

When I retired from my position of Chief Manager Investments for a major NZ bank, this particular wine importer asked me to do some work for him in producing a monthly wine magazine covering many of the aspects of French wine – – grapes, production methods, terroir and tastings as well as vineyard management and so on.

 

When I suggested that I wasn't sure that my knowledge was up to it, his reply was, "my friend, you know as much about wine as I do, so I would have every confidence in you producing our magazine".

 

Finally, it seems like you will be sticking with your "definition/explanation" of the "fruit wine" conundrum and I will be sticking with mine.

 

[superal]

17 hours ago, xylophone said:

Well there is a flaw in your argument because if the French wine was sent to Vietnam in bulk to be bottled, because of the "lower taxation/duty schemes available to cooperating Asia countries" it would not need to have the words "fruit wine" included on the back label to qualify for the tax break you mention!!

 

Indeed this article in the magazine "The Londoner" explains a little about the confusing situation with regards to buying wine in Thailand and it does state the following: –

 

A few years back, Siam Winery began selling Montclair “Celebration White and Red” with a label declaring, “From the Breede River Valley in South Africa.” As in the other blended wines being sold, consumers have to turn to the back label to read that the wine in the bottle is “Fruit Wine” and “Produced and bottled by Siam Winery.”

There are now seven other fruit wine labels on the Thai market: Belleville, Berri Estates and Cask 88 (Aussie Red and White), from Australia; Corte Antica, from Italy; Finca De Malpica from Spain; Mar Sol, from Chile; and Peter Vella, a low-tier wine produced by the Gallo Winery, California. With the exception of Belleville and Corte Antica, all of these fruit wines appear to come out of Siam Winery.

That article includes Belleville wine as a fruit wine, so somebody is wrong, somewhere, and as another poster, Partington said, "Obviously you are correct and LatPhrao is not......."

 

I also take offence at your description of me as a "tasting room tourist" which is a demeaning term to someone who has bought many of the Bordeaux Cru wines, en Primeur going back to the 1970s, visited vineyards/châteaux in France, Australia and New Zealand and been invited as a guest to such properties as Château Lynch-Bages, Château La Bastide and have been asked to give feedback on a particular wine which was about to be launched onto the market in France.

 

I accompanied a New Zealand-based French wine importer on a month long visit to meet his French wine suppliers and took in all of the regions that produce notable wine, ranging from wine produced in concrete vats in the Languedoc to the computer-controlled wine production in Ch.Pichon Baron Longueville, Bordeaux.

 

When I retired from my position of Chief Manager Investments for a major NZ bank, this particular wine importer asked me to do some work for him in producing a monthly wine magazine covering many of the aspects of French wine – – grapes, production methods, terroir and tastings as well as vineyard management and so on.

 

When I suggested that I wasn't sure that my knowledge was up to it, his reply was, "my friend, you know as much about wine as I do, so I would have every confidence in you producing our magazine".

 

Finally, it seems like you will be sticking with your "definition/explanation" of the "fruit wine" conundrum and I will be sticking with mine.

 

A good quality wine would be wasted on me because my palate cannot really know if I am drinking a fruit wine or not .  Just recently I found out the benefits of Pinot Noir which has a high level of the antioxidant resveratrol . I managed to buy a bottle of Casillero del Diablo for 599 baht . Very easy to drink . I went back the next day to buy some more but someone had bought the lot , so I settled for the same companies Merlot .I just wish that I had a discerning palate to appreciate the various tastes and qualities . 

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, superal said:

A good quality wine would be wasted on me because my palate cannot really know if I am drinking a fruit wine or not .  Just recently I found out the benefits of Pinot Noir which has a high level of the antioxidant resveratrol . I managed to buy a bottle of Casillero del Diablo for 599 baht . Very easy to drink . I went back the next day to buy some more but someone had bought the lot , so I settled for the same companies Merlot .I just wish that I had a discerning palate to appreciate the various tastes and qualities . 

Perhaps if you tasted a really good/top-class wine you would be able to appreciate it and tell the difference between that and a fruit wine.

 

As regards Pinot Noir, another poster did ask for a recommendation for a good Pinot Noir and I'm afraid I couldn't recommend one as I don't really drink that wine these days, HOWEVER the other evening I was dining in Wine Connection and because I was driving I only wanted one or two glasses of wine and the only one available at that time was a Pinot Noir from France, so I ordered it and I was very surprised because it was a bit like the Pinot Noirs that I had tasted in France all those years ago and was a nice wine.

 

I couldn't find/remember exactly what it was, even though I checked on the wine list online, so I will call in again and check what they were serving, because it was very likeable for me.

[StraightTalk]

47 minutes ago, superal said:

I just wish that I had a discerning palate to appreciate the various tastes and qualities . 

Not necessary. If a wine - regardless of its make, brand, or blend - suits your personal taste, then it must indeed be a good wine. And don’t let yourself be swayed or brainwashed by the media or by individuals who simply copy articles from publications and pretend to be experts because your personal taste is all that matters.

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, StraightTalk said:

Not necessary. If a wine - regardless of its make, brand, or blend - suits your personal taste, then it must indeed be a good wine. And don’t let yourself be swayed or brainwashed by the media or by individuals who simply copy articles from publications and pretend to be experts because your personal taste is all that matters.

@superal the Pinot Noir I mentioned earlier in a post, was a Pinot Noir from Henri de Bareuil in the Hautes-Côtes de Beaune, and as I said earlier for me it was very agreeable, and I would add that I believe this one had been open for a while, so had been allowed to breathe, and that can make a lot of difference.

 

These days I rely on my own tastebuds, although at my age they are getting a little bit "ancient" however after more than 50 years of collecting and tasting wines from around the world I have got a pretty good handle on what I like and what I don't and have no problem with recommending some wines to friends.

 

I would agree with the above post because it's your personal taste that matters, irrespective of what others think about it, and there would be many times when I have tried a wine which has been well recommended by a friend, yet I couldn't get on with it! 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by xylophone