Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

That is not the point. 

UK didn't want control from EU, Scotland did, so let them be independent and join EU mafia. 

They were two different referendums with two different questions asked 

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Scotland has its own Parliament, Holyrood , England doesn't have its own Parliament 

 

 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/flash-of-anger-silences-holyrood-in-gender-bill-debate-dm656gqts

You have made a response against a quote made by someone else, a breach of the rules.

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

The Belfast Agreement concerns NI, not Scotland. It is a political agreement and nothing to do with what I feel is appropriate. What I do feel is that your use of the word discrimination here is inflammatory.

Views taken on self determination cannot be confined to one particular entity, to do so amounts to discrimination.

History has proven the Wesminster stance on self determination changes to suit the agenda at the time.

Discrimination is a way of life in the UK with several laws having been introduced to try and stop it, you are of course free to feel what you want.

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They were two different referendums with two different questions asked 

I don't see why that matters if the SNP now wants to ask the Scottish people if they want to vote to be independant country.

 

My son-iinlaw is Scottish and reckons it would be a 'NO'.

 

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They were two different referendums with two different questions asked 

But a common issue.

In 2014 David Cameron misled the people of Scotland in that he promised Scotland would have a greater say in dealings with the EU while at the same time already secretly planning a referendum on leaving the EU. The fallout from that referendum has reinforced the argument for Scotland to vote again.

Westminster do not want to acknowledge the failings surrounding the 2014 vote and are using out of context personal quotes to try and deny revisiting the issue. They have no moral argument for this course of action and sooner or later it will be held again.

If Brexit had gone the other way it is unlikely there would be the same strength of feeling over another vote so the problem for Westminster is effectively self inflicted through mismanagment of both referendums.

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

But a common issue.

In 2014 David Cameron misled the people of Scotland in that he promised Scotland would have a greater say in dealings with the EU while at the same time already secretly planning a referendum on leaving the EU. The fallout from that referendum has reinforced the argument for Scotland to vote again.

Westminster do not want to acknowledge the failings surrounding the 2014 vote and are using out of context personal quotes to try and deny revisiting the issue. They have no moral argument for this course of action and sooner or later it will be held again.

If Brexit had gone the other way it is unlikely there would be the same strength of feeling over another vote so the problem for Westminster is effectively self inflicted through mismanagment of both referendums.

Scotland needs another Wallis not a Sturgeon.

[placeholder]

Since the Tories took office, the median pay of UK workers has dropped by 18% in terms of purchasing power. That is a huge number.

[vinny41]

14th May 2013

David Cameron: EU referendum bill shows only Tories listen

David Cameron has said only his party is offering a "clear choice" about the UK's future in Europe after the Tories published a draft bill outlining plans for a referendum by the end of 2017.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-22530655

 

Not much of a secret if the BBC published in 2013 before the 2014 referendum

[youreavinalaff]

43 minutes ago, sandyf said:

But a common issue.

In 2014 David Cameron misled the people of Scotland in that he promised Scotland would have a greater say in dealings with the EU while at the same time already secretly planning a referendum on leaving the EU. The fallout from that referendum has reinforced the argument for Scotland to vote again.

Westminster do not want to acknowledge the failings surrounding the 2014 vote and are using out of context personal quotes to try and deny revisiting the issue. They have no moral argument for this course of action and sooner or later it will be held again.

If Brexit had gone the other way it is unlikely there would be the same strength of feeling over another vote so the problem for Westminster is effectively self inflicted through mismanagment of both referendums.

In that case, the Scottish people were failed by their own Parliament.

 

The idea of a referendum on EU membership was already brewing. That should have been a strong point of the "yes" manifesto in the Scottish independence vote.

[vinny41]

37 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

In that case, the Scottish people were failed by their own Parliament.

 

The idea of a referendum on EU membership was already brewing. That should have been a strong point of the "yes" manifesto in the Scottish independence vote.

There was a paper Published by the Scottish Government, November 2013

Scotland in the European Union 

Which contains many reference to a  referendum on the UK‟s membership of the EU

including a clear reference on Page 27 section 7.4

7.4. As we head towards a referendum on the UK‟s membership of the EU there is a growing sense, both here and on mainland Europe, the UK‟s relationship with the EU is set to change fundamentally. Indeed it is far from inconceivable the UK will leave the EU before the end of this decade

https://www.coleurope.eu/sites/default/files/uploads/event/scotland_in_the_eu_-_report.pdf

 

[josephbloggs]

Feed the UK is Christmas Number One. Who ever imagined a song like this would be necessary. Absolutely appalling. But no, the UK is not doing worse than anywhere else of course...
 

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

But a common issue.

In 2014 David Cameron misled the people of Scotland in that he promised Scotland would have a greater say in dealings with the EU while at the same time already secretly planning a referendum on leaving the EU. The fallout from that referendum has reinforced the argument for Scotland to vote again.

Westminster do not want to acknowledge the failings surrounding the 2014 vote and are using out of context personal quotes to try and deny revisiting the issue. They have no moral argument for this course of action and sooner or later it will be held again.

If Brexit had gone the other way it is unlikely there would be the same strength of feeling over another vote so the problem for Westminster is effectively self inflicted through mismanagment of both referendums.

Cobblers. There was no secret planning. Cameron promised the referendum on the EU publicly in January 2013, if the Conservatives were returned at the next general election (2015). 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

The idea of a referendum on EU membership was already brewing. That should have been a strong point of the "yes" manifesto in the Scottish independence vote.

How on earth could it have been a strong point when it wasn't official.  When it was mentioned it was dismissed as rumours.

But you are right to a certain point there was a failing in the leadership rather than the government. Many that voted No were voting against Alex Salmond rather than the idea of independence.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/23/2022 at 6:32 PM, superal said:

By the time Ukraine has finished with Russia there will be little to fear from Russia and in any case any war with Russia would be based on ballistic missiles launched from nuclear submarines . The UK withdrawal from NATO should have happened at the same time as Brexit . 

LOL. Did you forget that Russia also has nuclear missile submarines?

IMO any direct attack on Russia by NATO is the end of Europe, including Britain.

[ozimoron]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Did you forget that Russia also has nuclear missile submarines?

IMO any direct attack on Russia by NATO is the end of Europe, including Britain.

I don't believe that's true. Russia will not use nuclear weapons. China and India have made it very clear to Russia that it would not be acceptable. Russia doesn't have the means to go it alone without them.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Cobblers. There was no secret planning. Cameron promised the referendum on the EU publicly in January 2013, if the Conservatives were returned at the next general election (2015). 

Of course there was.

The original EU Referendum Bill 2013-14 was killed off in early 2014, a fairly obvious move as it conflicted with DC's promises to Scotland.

A new Bill was then brought back to the House in 2015 after the Scottish vote. 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Of course there was.

The original EU Referendum Bill 2013-14 was killed off in early 2014, a fairly obvious move as it conflicted with DC's promises to Scotland.

A new Bill was then brought back to the House in 2015 after the Scottish vote. 

Great. But I was talking about what Cameron promised in 2013. At least he eventually kept that one.

[puchooay]

28 minutes ago, sandyf said:

How on earth could it have been a strong point when it wasn't official.  When it was mentioned it was dismissed as rumours.

But you are right to a certain point there was a failing in the leadership rather than the government. Many that voted No were voting against Alex Salmond rather than the idea of independence.

 

I doubt you've read the few posts before your own. Go back and read them. You may wish to edit your comments.

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

There was a paper Published by the Scottish Government, November 2013

Scotland in the European Union 

Which contains many reference to a  referendum on the UK‟s membership of the EU

including a clear reference on Page 27 section 7.4

7.4. As we head towards a referendum on the UK‟s membership of the EU there is a growing sense, both here and on mainland Europe, the UK‟s relationship with the EU is set to change fundamentally. Indeed it is far from inconceivable the UK will leave the EU before the end of this decade

https://www.coleurope.eu/sites/default/files/uploads/event/scotland_in_the_eu_-_report.pdf

 

And did the SNP point this out to the voters during their independence campaign?

 

If they did, the calls for another vote because of Brexit are inane.

 

If they didn't, they seriously let down the voters.

[vinny41]

26 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

And did the SNP point this out to the voters during their independence campaign?

 

If they did, the calls for another vote because of Brexit are inane.

 

If they didn't, they seriously let down the voters.

A poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft immediately after the referendum showed that EU membership was an important issue only for 12% of the Yes voters and 15% of the No voters

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll

 

If the results of this poll are correct EU membership was low down on the list for both Yes and No voters

 

 

[puchooay]

3 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Feed the UK is Christmas Number One. Who ever imagined a song like this would be necessary. Absolutely appalling. But no, the UK is not doing worse than anywhere else of course...
 

 

Don't believe everything you read in the media.

 

All kinds of shops and supermarkets are packed with people spending money.

 

 

[Kwasaki]

27 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

A poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft immediately after the referendum showed that EU membership was an important issue only for 12% of the Yes voters and 15% of the No voters

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll

 

If the results of this poll are correct EU membership was low down on the list for both Yes and No voters

 

 

The only useful poll is spelt pole. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Feed the UK is Christmas Number One. Who ever imagined a song like this would be necessary. Absolutely appalling. But no, the UK is not doing worse than anywhere else of course...
 

 

That song has been the UK Christmas Number 1 for the past five Christmases in the U.K and a bunch of celebrities get together each year to make a new version .

   I was in my local supermarket yesterday and the queues at the checkout were extremely long

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That song has been the UK Christmas Number 1 for the past five Christmases in the U.K and a bunch of celebrities get together each year to make a new version .

   I was in my local supermarket yesterday and the queues at the checkout were extremely long

Yeah right…

 

Do you not realise how ludicrous that post is?

 

People were shopping and there were long queues so there is no poverty?

 

People are shopping so they can’t be in financial difficulties?

 

Absolute complete utter nonsense. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Bluespunk
Typos

[josephbloggs]

32 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Don't believe everything you read in the media.

 

All kinds of shops and supermarkets are packed with people spending money.

 

 

Yes, of course, it is Christmas and not everyone in the whole country is poor.  Millions and millions of people are preparing for the big day - those that can afford it.   But there are millions more struggling to put food on the table. Food Bank use has increased 14% since pre-pandemic levels (which is when we should judge it). Or are you saying that is not so because you saw people in a supermarket?

Anyway please tell me what I am reading in the media. I am looking at statistics, black and white.

Edited December 24, 2022 by josephbloggs

[josephbloggs]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That song has been the UK Christmas Number 1 for the past five Christmases in the U.K and a bunch of celebrities get together each year to make a new version .

   I was in my local supermarket yesterday and the queues at the checkout were extremely long

Don't want to repeat myself but see the reply I just posted to another comment. Seeing people in a supermarket does not mean poverty and hunger don't exist - it is a ridiculous argument to make.

And that song has not been number 1 for five years. Singles by the same artists have been. And why do you think that is so? Because it is for the Trussell Trust, a charity that aims to stop UK hunger, and people buy the singles to help. Why is that necessary in a G7 nation? Since when did we need charity singles to help the UK's hunger crisis? 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, of course, it is Christmas and not everyone in the whole country is poor.  Millions and millions of people are preparing for the big day - those that can afford it.   But there are millions more struggling to put food on the table. Food Bank use has increased 14% since pre-pandemic levels (which is when we should judge it against). Or are you saying that is not so because you saw people in a supermarket?

Anyway please tell me what I am reading in the media. I am looking at statistics, black and white.

Yes, there are poor people, always have been and always will be , why do some people concentrate so much on the poorer people ?

  Its like some people enjoy surrounding themselves in misery 

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, there are poor people, always have been and always will be , why do some people concentrate so much on the poorer people ?

  Its like some people enjoy surrounding themselves in misery 

And the percentage of poor people is increasing, should we ignore that?  Why is it happening? I know you are not a fan of answering questions, you prefer deflecting, but why is poverty increasing in the UK at such a dramatic rate? Why do so many people rely on Food Banks?

Surrounding myself in misery by asking questions about why so many people are struggling? Should we not do that?

Is it because of Gordon Brown? Probably the Ukraine war, right?  Who has been in charge for the last 12 years?

[puchooay]

10 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, of course, it is Christmas and not everyone in the whole country is poor.  Millions and millions of people are preparing for the big day - those that can afford it.   But there are millions more struggling to put food on the table. Food Bank use has increased 14% since pre-pandemic levels (which is when we should judge it against). Or are you saying that is not so because you saw people in a supermarket?

Anyway please tell me what I am reading in the media. I am looking at statistics, black and white.

I said don't believe "everything" you see in the media.

 

Some people always struggle. Whether it's their own doing, only they know. 

 

Food banks don't generally go into people's finances or personal details. There will always be freeloaders.

 

Those that are in real difficulty get help. Only yesterday our local council announce a new scheme for council tax rebates.

 

I work in a regular job ay £11 a hour. My wife gets £10. We live in an expensive area of UK. Rent on a 2 bed flat is £1000. By not overspending or overstreching our finances when the going was great, we are doing OK and save money each month.

 

There was a married couple of nurses on social media the other day. They were saying they use food banks. Their combined salary about £20k per annum more than ours. They are doing something wrong. Sad. I guess, but true.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

And the percentage of poor people is increasing, should we ignore that?  Why is it happening? I know you are not a fan of answering questions, you prefer deflecting, but why is poverty increasing in the UK at such a dramatic rate? Why do so many people rely on Food Banks?

Surrounding myself in misery by asking questions about why so many people are struggling? Should we not do that?

Is it because of Gordon Brown? Probably the Ukraine war, right?  Who has been in charge for the last 12 years?

Its Christmas eve .