Assimilation with Thai Culture

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Drink beer with ice

 

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I keep 5 baht in my ear when I take a Songtaew

So euthanised taste buds and deaf in one ear.

 

You are pretty well assimilated????

[Hummin]

Drink beer with ice, as well cheaper wine to, but I only wai my wifes parents and the village chief. I do not run around and wai to everyone who wai to me. I give them a little apreciated bob with my head.

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The one-handed wai is indeed an art. 

Once a made a cultural faux pas by doing it at the gym -  a Thai guy came in and waied me when I was in the changing room putting on my shoes and I did the wai with the shoe in one hand. 

I have never done the Thai 'flip the bird yet', which is fighting  talk but have seen it once in a road rage incident. 

I love the ‘one handed Wai’... an art form indeed....   maintaining a respectful greeting while not inconveniencing yourself by having to put down whatever it is you are carrying... 

 

I quite enjoy what I call the ’trifecta Wai’... used with close senior friends and in-laws...

...  The Wai on approach, the followup hand-shake, then the friendly hug... All options covered !

 

I also entertain myself with the ‘rotator Wai’....  walking into a room with many Thai’s, many of whom are more senior... Wai, but not in one direction, Wai and slightly ’swivel’ at the same time to achieve ‘coverage’ !!!

 

Two of the best Wai’s I ever did were both to my Father in Law...

First time of meeting FIL...  I was the Inlaws house with my then girlfriend, it was late, I was a little drunk. Inlaws returned home, entered their house, I stood up to wai caught my foot and very nearly fell over....   FIL utterly shocked by the sight of a Westerner in his house didn’t know what to do, so joined me with a Whisky.

 

Another time we’d arranged to meet at a restaurant. I’d brought two bottles of wine... Walked into the restaurant, inLaws already there, I Wai’d, but also had a bottle of wine in each hand, the bottles nearly smashed !!!

I call this the ‘clanger’ !!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

Also, we ride 3 up on 1 MB, no helmets with masks of course.

[ArnieP]

4 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Dont want to listen to all the whining.

Then it might be best to quit reading forums on aseannow ????

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Well that's just rude behavior/manners from a poor upbringing.  I wai, even when not expected or within 'protocol'.

 

 

It would be rude behavior from a Thai. I am not Thai, and consider a nod or wave  sufficient acknowledgment as a response.

 

IMO adopting a wai  to fit in is a waste of time, and is not going to work anyway. I'd bet many Thais sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner do it.

 

I am always going to be a farang, better that I am true to myself.

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes I do. I speak Thai. I avoid farangs.

Strange...    

 

...  Someone who ‘deliberately’ avoids other foreigners simply because they are other foreigners seems a little weird....

.. Its just like those Thai females who’d tell you they don’t like Thai men etc...  

 

This is more telling of them than the ‘group’ they avoid.....

 

....  anyone else who specifically avoids a specific group is somewhat unhinged... 

 

Westerners who state they avoid other foreigners perhaps feel the need to do so because it is them themselves who are the strange unhinged ones...  not everyone else in that group !!!... 

 

 

I get it when people say “I avoid groups of drunk Thai men”.... But really, that can be simplified to “I avoid groups of drunk men” and be equally as valid...  or perhaps even “I avoid groups of drunk people”....

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It would be rude behavior from a Thai. I am not Thai, and consider a nod or wave  sufficient acknowledgment as a response.

I don’t understand this mentality from anyone, particularly someone who usually presents an intelligent argument. 

 

Imagine being in the UK and putting your handout when a colleague or someone you know walks into the room and they ignore your ‘offer of a hand-shake’ and just nod !!

 

This obviously goes back to many of the ’to wai or not to wai’ debates on this (and other) forums. I just don’t understand why some Westerners make so much effort not to make any effort - it seems highly impolite, particularly from anyone who has been here any length of time. 

 

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO adopting a wai  to fit in is a waste of time, and is not going to work anyway.

Wai’ing is not to ‘fit in’... its simply being polite...   I don’t know why some people over think this so much. 

 

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'd bet many Thais sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner do it.

... Do you sneer inwardly when you see a Thai or south east Asian shake someones hand ?

The idea that Thai’s would sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner Wai is utterly ridiculous... 

 

Thai’s may be bemused when they see an elderly Westerner getting the protocol upside down and Wai’ing children first or Wai’ing the restaurant staff first etc...  but that’s kind of light hearted...  

 

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am always going to be a farang, better that I am true to myself.

Of course, be true to yourself... but doesn’t that also mean being polite to others ?

 

It does sometimes seem that some ‘Westerners’ here are in a constant phase of protest against adopting some cultural mannerisms and norms... it strikes me as somewhat odd.

.. I’m reluctant to use the term ’superiority complex’, however, the discussions sometimes give off that impression. 

 

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

I assimilate.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

I love the ‘one handed Wai’... an art form indeed....   maintaining a respectful greeting while not inconveniencing yourself by having to put down whatever it is you are carrying... 

 

I quite enjoy what I call the ’trifecta Wai’... used with close senior friends and in-laws...

...  The Wai on approach, the followup hand-shake, then the friendly hug... All options covered !

 

I also entertain myself with the ‘rotator Wai’....  walking into a room with many Thai’s, many of whom are more senior... Wai, but not in one direction, Wai and slightly ’swivel’ at the same time to achieve ‘coverage’ !!!

Love it. 

 

A wai is not actually necessary but some other form of obeisance from a farang is OK, i.e lowering of the head. I have to be carefule to do this as before I came here, i\I'd raise my head when meeting people

[Neeranam]

48 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

IMO adopting a wai  to fit in is a waste of time, and is not going to work anyway. I'd bet many Thais sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner do it.

It's common courtesy to do in Rome what the Romans do. 

 

However, I advice foreigners not to wai important people unless they know wai ettiquette, i.e knowing if the thumbs go near the moth or forehead. 

I used to teach Thai kids civics, which included how to wai. 

IMO, Thais sneer more when farang shake hands, similar to me laughing at Japanese tourists in the UK bowing rapidly, or Yanks doing a high 5.  

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

So euthanised taste buds and deaf in one ear.

 

You are pretty well assimilated????

I am working on stopping at parked motorbikes to use their mirror to pick my nose hair. 

[Sparktrader]

50 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Strange...    

 

...  Someone who ‘deliberately’ avoids other foreigners simply because they are other foreigners seems a little weird....

.. Its just like those Thai females who’d tell you they don’t like Thai men etc...  

 

This is more telling of them than the ‘group’ they avoid.....

 

....  anyone else who specifically avoids a specific group is somewhat unhinged... 

 

Westerners who state they avoid other foreigners perhaps feel the need to do so because it is them themselves who are the strange unhinged ones...  not everyone else in that group !!!... 

 

 

I get it when people say “I avoid groups of drunk Thai men”.... But really, that can be simplified to “I avoid groups of drunk men” and be equally as valid...  or perhaps even “I avoid groups of drunk people”....

 

 

 

So you don't believe in free choice. That's more strange. Reading that rant, I'm not missing much.

[jerrymahoney]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Love it. 

 

A wai is not actually necessary but some other form of obeisance from a farang is OK, i.e lowering of the head. I have to be carefule to do this as before I came here, i\I'd raise my head when meeting people

I go with a slight nod. To me, a wai is something you learned to do when you were 2 years old or don't do it.

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

IMO adopting a wai  to fit in is a waste of time, and is not going to work anyway. I'd bet many Thais sneer inwardly when they see a Westerner do it.

Wrong. They appreciate the effort.

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

“I avoid groups of drunk men” and be equally as valid...  or perhaps even “I avoid groups of drunk people”.

I've always enjoyed groups of drunk women. 

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I go with a slight nod. To me, a wai is something you learned to do when you were 2 years old or don't do it.

You learnt a handshake at 2yo? Baby Thais doing wais?

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I've always enjoyed groups of drunk women. 

Exactly

[Sparktrader]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Yanks doing a high 5.  

I thought they stopped 30 years ago

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It's common courtesy to do in Rome what the Romans do. 

 

However, I advice foreigners not to wai important people unless they know wai ettiquette, i.e knowing if the thumbs go near the moth or forehead. 

 

I think thats a good point - obviously situational. 

 

I have met some very senior (important) Thai’s, but didn’t worry too much about the Wai but knew its not as intricate as some make out...  just as you mentioned, thumbs to mouth, nose, bridge of nose or forehead...  unless it was a monk I’d always follow up with a hand-shake and eye contact. 

 

As Lacessit wrote: 'I am true to myself’... and I agree. If I am gong to make effort to do it the Thai way, I expect effort in return to greet my way... This is the facet of the mutual respect I expect.

 

 

I think it is also good for my son to see me being respectful of others, not just in Thailand, but elsewhere too...   Thats with handshakes, Wai’s and of course verbal manners. 

 

Part of this ‘assimilation discussion’ must also consider children of shared nationality. 

My Son is Thai and British - its astonishing how he switches, as do many of his peers. 

My Son attends well known international school in Bangkok with many children of various nationalities a lot of whom are mixed Thai and another nationality...  Its quite astonishing to see how they adapt to ‘cultural and social’ norms depending on the ‘audience’...

For example... The Thai Children or Thai / Another children will go up to my Wife and I and give us both a Wai... whereas if I am on my own (walking into school and to collect my son) they’ll just come up to me say high, have a quick conversation etc just like any (confident) Western child would. 

 

It's interesting to watch how my Son behaves when we go to friends houses. 

He’ll wai the Thai’s and just say hi to the Westerners. 

When at friends houses the 100% Thai children will just wai all adults - there is no dichotomy for them. 

 

This brings my comments back full circle to assimilation...  Does a Child of mixed Thai / Foreign parentage fully assimilated ? does society consider them Thai or mixed ? and is it even important ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Many foreigners I know even refuse to wai.

Disrespectful and not nice behavior.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

“I avoid groups of drunk men” and be equally as valid...  or perhaps even “I avoid groups of drunk people”.

I've always enjoyed groups of drunk women. 

Well, I suppose women also get ‘beer goggles’ !!!..   

[Woof999]

5 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Of course, in rare instances, you might see a guy from a foreign country who is only partially assimilated into his new country, like Great Britain, and yet this guy is still able to become a PM, although this is very rare.

  

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or not

He was born in Southampton to parents that had immigrated two decades earlier. He's no more from a foreign country than I am.

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

So you don't believe in free choice.

I'm highlighting the questionable nature of your choice not the freedom of it. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

That's more strange. Reading that rant, I'm not missing much.

You are actually.. You missed the point....  

 

.... foreigners who avoid other foreigners are just weird....      they are usually the ones best avoided and blame their social awkwardness or misgivings on others. 

 

 

Yes, there are plenty of freaks out there, but those freaks come from any nation, avoiding ‘farangs’ just because they are foreign speaks of a fundamentally unhinged logic. 

 

I’ve met plenty of Thai’s and foreigners who are utter weirdo’s... they are easily ignored or walked away from.... I’ve also met lots of very decent folk, Thai and foreigners.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

21 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

You learnt a handshake at 2yo? Baby Thais doing wais?

I don't know about handshake but baby Thais begin to have their hands pressed together by their elders to form a wai  starting at about age 2.

 

... excluding Ronald McDonald.

[Sparktrader]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'm highlighting the questionable nature of your choice not the freedom of it. 

 

You are actually.. You missed the point....  

 

.... foreigners who avoid other foreigners are just weird....      they are usually the ones best avoided and blame their social awkwardness or misgivings on others. 

 

 

Yes, there are plenty of freaks out there, but those freaks come from any nation, avoiding ‘farangs’ just because they are foreign speaks of a fundamentally unhinged logic. 

 

I’ve met plenty of Thai’s and foreigners who are utter weirdo’s... they are easily ignored or walked away from.... I’ve also met lots of very decent folk, Thai and foreigners.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No you proved my point. Ranting on with nonsense.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Just now, jerrymahoney said:

I don't know about handshake but baby Thais begin to have their hands pressed together by their elders to form a wai starting at about age 2.

No real memory until age 3. If you avoid things after age 3 you learn nothing.

[jerrymahoney]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

No real memory until age 3. If you avoid things after age 3 you learn nothing.

It is Standard operating. 

[jerrymahoney]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

... foreigners who avoid other foreigners are just weird....

However it is easy to avoid other foreigners when you next-to-never encounter other foreigners.

[EVENKEEL]

I wai the beer as old lady puts it in the fridge.