Jump to content

Half Thai/Foreign child cannot own Thai land.


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Putting property in a Thai Child’s name is at the Land Office’s discretion.

 

Actually, transfer of any chanote to any Thai person at the Land Office is entirely at the officer’s discretion. They can refuse anyone without giving a reason.

 

There is no right of appeal.

 

it is the same with every immigration officer.

Never heard of any case that the land office refused a transfer of a title deed if the property is clear. The only cases that stop a transfer are court disputes, mortgages and a "red" chanot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

It means they are only half-Thai.  A common label is "half-blood".  They have one Thai parent and one foreign parent, so they cannot be fully Thai.

 

Even if they have Thai nationality, the foreign half prevents them from being fully Thai.

 

It suggests that their is an ethnic/racial purity involved in being Thai which is diluted by the foreign genes.

 

You might be a Thai national, but many Thais will consider you to be only half Thai.  There's clearly some sort of racial/genetic heritage involved in being a "true and full" Thai.

 

Nationality appears to be only one component in being a "real Thai".

I think @Will B Goodmeant in the legal way you are either a Thai citizen or you're not. Once a person is legally Thai national there is no difference between different ethnicities.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Purdey said:

If i remember correctly, a Thai with a foreign parent must decide which nationality to take eventually.

The law may have changed.

At 15 years s/he can get a national ID card.

As a baby, it may look obvious to officers this is for the foreign parent's benefit. 

Putting the land in the name of the mother and getting an usufruct (simultaneously if possible) agreement will allow you lifetime use of the land 

 

 

My luk sal daughter got her Thai ID card at the age of 8 last year, the school wanted a copy to claim some money for her from the gov. No one seemed to think it odd about her age at the Provincial capital's Tessaban when we took her in for it...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, PPGuy said:

Not always so black and white.

My son was born at Chula hospital in Bangkok some 30 years ago. His mother is Thai.

Coz Thai Nationality law was changed in 1992.

 

Before both parents needed to be Thai citizens

Link to post
Share on other sites

my half thai. half American owns my land and the blue book is in her name
She has a thai id card, Both Thai passport and US Passport issued in 95 when she was 1 

as many will agree with half thai kids<
she went thru hell at times in international school in phuket

the thai kids would not accept her, the expat kids wouldn't either
 

Edited by zzzzz
  • Like 1
  • Love It 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To update.

 

All the law firms that have replied say the same thing, that the office is refusing to do it because the office view it as a foreigner getting around Thai land law to own the land/property. There isn't a law that states the land department cannot refuse to transfer to a person even if they are Thai born, to a Thai parent, with Thai ID and passport, so they can refuse if they see fit.

 

Some of the law firms can contact the office before the transfer and request a usufruct if it is bought in the Thai parent's name, then get a usufruct immediately after. The office can also reject this if they see it as a foreigner trying to get around Thai land law. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

These idiot officials sound like those at the local Amphur office in a  southern province. Told us our half Thai son could not go on the blue house book because "he's not Thai". Despite him having a Thai birth certificate and a Thai passport. Dodos. 

 

My daughter is a "half Thai" and she is in the Blue House book since 12 years already.
I live in a RENTED house, and the landlord inscribed my "half Thai" daughter into the Blue Book.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Any Thai having a foreign spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouse must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the Personal Property (such as defined by Thai laws) of such Thai.

Without written confirmation from a foreign spouse, the request for such registration must be referred to the Land Department in order to obtain an approval from the Minister.

Any foreigner's minor having Thai nationality may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land if it does not appear after investigation that he/she has done so to avoid the law

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Coz Thai Nationality law was changed in 1992.

 

Before both parents needed to be Thai citizens

Thanks for that info.

Then it must have been possible to have it backdated as he was born in 1991. Is that the case?

Edited by PPGuy
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was told I could not give my child a foreign name it had to be Thai when we registered his birth!! After explaining that in a civilized country she would likely end up in court saying that! I then said have you never heard of Jason Young a famous Thai celebrity she backed down. 

Edited by Chicken George
Typo
Link to post
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Incorrect.

 

Show the source of this information

We build HiSo Moo Baan's, it came from my lawyer ...

Thailand Land Code Act Sections 73 & 74.

The Officer does not have to specify a reason.  I accept that it is normally unlikely, but the Land Code Act does not allow for an appeal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Never heard of any case that the land office refused a transfer of a title deed if the property is clear. The only cases that stop a transfer are court disputes, mortgages and a "red" chanot.

If they believe a Thai may be a nominee for a foreigner (example, Thai wife, Foreigner Husband), that is all the suspicion they need, normally they will ask the Thai to show the source of the funds if married to a Foreigner. This causes a problem later if there is a divorce and the Foreigner claims he paid for the house, there's a golden rule with Law Courts (take it from a retired magistrate), you must go to the court with clean hands and you can't claim you lied to the land office to do the initial purchase.

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Even if they have Thai nationality, the foreign half prevents them from being fully Thai.

 

Quote

 

Right to a nationality

UNPhotoAndreaBrizzi-.jpgFrom birth, the child also has the right to a nationality.

Nationality can be obtained in two different ways:
 Jus sanguinis (By blood) : the child will have the same nationality as his parents.
 Jus soli (By birth) : The child will have the nationality of the territory on which he was born, even if his parents have a different nationality.

Nationality is confirmed through the issuing of a birth certificate. It is an important aspect of a person’s life, for it is an attribute of citizenship. Nationality allows establishment of the affiliation for an individual to a nation.

 

https://www.humanium.org/en/identity/

Edited by IvorBiggun2
Link to post
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

It means they are only half-Thai.  A common label is "half-blood".  They have one Thai parent and one foreign parent, so they cannot be fully Thai.

 

Even if they have Thai nationality, the foreign half prevents them from being fully Thai.

 

It suggests that their is an ethnic/racial purity involved in being Thai which is diluted by the foreign genes.

 

You might be a Thai national, but many Thais will consider you to be only half Thai.  There's clearly some sort of racial/genetic heritage involved in being a "true and full" Thai.

 

Nationality appears to be only one component in being a "real Thai".

But this is purely a legalistic matter......and I am pretty sure the term 'half Thai' has no meaning in law.......so they must be entitled to hold land as a Thai national.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Will B Good said:

they must be entitled to hold land as a Thai national.

The land department has the legal right to refuse the transfer if they believe it is being done to circumnavigate the laws of Thailand. 

 

In this instance they believe the half-western child is being used by the western parent to own the land/property on their behalf. 

 

Transfer to the Thai child with foreign parent, denied. 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that transferring ownership of land/property to a minor child (less than 18/20yrs) in many countries would not be allowed by local authorities. It can be seen here in Thailand as a way of circumventing ownership by foreigner laws. If to an adult son or daughter, then there should be no restrictions IMO.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

But this is purely a legalistic matter......and I am pretty sure the term 'half Thai' has no meaning in law.......so they must be entitled to hold land as a Thai national.

I guess they've got a kind of get-out clause based on the discretion of the officer that allows opinion to effectively become law?

 

Maybe it could be appealed and pushed through?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Chicken George said:

I was told I could not give my child a foreign name it had to be Thai when we registered his birth!! After explaining that in a civilized country she would likely end up in court saying that! I then said have you never heard of Jason Young a famous Thai celebrity she backed down. 

There was actually a law about 25-30 years ago that a Thai new born must have a Thai name only (the official name. Nickname could be anything). Back then some district offices were very strict about it whereas other districts didn't care and would register anything you wanted. I'm not sure if the law was removed or just mostly ignored these days.

As for Jason young - he was born in 1980, about 10 years before that law was introduced...

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, zzzzz said:

my daughter born 1994 in Phuket, has my foreign last name

Same goes for my 3 kids. Also we never gave them 'nicknames' which seems to be compulsory in Thailand for whatever reason.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife never changed her name on her Thai ID where she is still listed as "Miss". Her Thai Passport has her maiden name as well, but her US identifications (Social Security, Naturalization Certificate, Drivers License, Passport) all have her last name the same as mine. Our three children all have my last name as well. When my wife travels to Thailand, she brings a copy of our Marriage Certificate to prove her Thai name and her US name are the same. Usually only the airlines need to see this. When she travels, she uses her married name. She only provides her Thai Passport to Thai immigration. Sometime they ask to see the boarding pass and in those cases she also shows the Marriage Certificate. She uses her Thai ID to purchase property in Thailand. I have never been required to sign any documents indicating that all the funds for the purchase are her funds.

 

In my humble opinion, my wife's decision not to change her name on Thai identification documents has been a wise decision. Since we live in the US, there hasn't been a need for us to register our marriage in Thailand. I'm not worried about having all the Thai property in her name and I've never asked to have a usufruct or any other type of request to protect myself even though my wife works as a homemaker taking care of our family and doesn't earn any income. All of my children born in the US have received Thai Birth Certificates and Thai Passports. Their US names are translated into Thai and appear in both Thai and English on these documents. My son is the only one that doesn't have a Thai ID because my wife doesn't want him to face the Thai Military Conscription requirement. He is 22 and after he turns 30, we plan on getting him registered in a Thai house book so that he can receive a Thai ID. At that age, we are told that he won't be required to register for the possibility of service in the Thai Military. Both of my daughters are registered in a Thai house book and have received Thai IDs.

 

Fortunately, I haven't had to worry about purchasing land in my children's names. However, we do plan on having them inherit all the Thai property my wife has purchased over the years. Hopefully there won't be any issues with them receiving these properties in the future regardless of the fact that they are "Wasian" (my daughter's term) and have (mostly) Western sounding names.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 11/21/2022 at 4:38 PM, Purdey said:

If i remember correctly, a Thai with a foreign parent must decide which nationality to take eventually.

The law may have changed.

At 15 years s/he can get a national ID card.

As a baby, it may look obvious to officers this is for the foreign parent's benefit. 

Putting the land in the name of the mother and getting an usufruct (simultaneously if possible) agreement will allow you lifetime use of the land 

 

 

my son is 5 he has a Thai birth certificate stating nationality Thai he holds a Thai passport he also holds a British passport..never had a problem..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ex PM Abhisit Vejjajiva  has   British citizenship. Odds on he can own Thai land. 

Quote

Born in England to Thai parents, Abhisit also holds British citizenship. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva#Early_life_and_family

Edited by IvorBiggun2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 11/22/2022 at 5:51 AM, JeffersLos said:

The land department has the legal right to refuse the transfer if they believe it is being done to circumnavigate the laws of Thailand. 

 

In this instance they believe the half-western child is being used by the western parent to own the land/property on their behalf. 

 

Transfer to the Thai child with foreign parent, denied. 

The western parent wouldn't own the land though.

 

Presumably there is a right of appeal......or there should be.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Ex PM Abhisit Vejjajiva  has   British citizenship. Odds on he can own Thai land. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva#Early_life_and_family

Any Thai national can legally own land in Thailand.

 

However, the Department of Land can refuse to transfer land to them is they believe they are being used by a foreigner to circumnavigate Thai land laws. 

 

What is odd is that the department have said they will issue a usufruct for me on my Thai spouses land on the day of the transfer. 

 

So the land is transferred to my Thai spouses name, then I am immediately given full usufruct rights over it until the day I die, and this transfer isn't seen as being used by the foreigner to get around land laws, but transferring it into one of our son's name without any usufruct, is. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

My ex Thai wife will transfer a House she owns into our 2 childrens names. They have Thai citizenship. I have an Usufuct on the property. The land office is ok with the transfer which is a gift from ex wife to children. I am told the transfer fee is 1% of the appraised value. Does the fee sound correct as it is normally 2.5% for a transfer? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...