The 'End Frozen Pensions' campaign . . .

[TorquayFan]

It's good to see some MP's are supporting 'End Frozen Pensions' but it's hard to believe Govt. largesse will stretch to this - (but it's OK to waste billions if it suits - as Baroness Mone can testify).
 
"Some pensioners living abroad will not see their state pension payments increase in line with inflation. The government has been urged to bring a halt to an "unfair postcode lottery" that means almost 500,000 Britons living abroad have had their state pension frozen. Under the pensions triple lock, UK pensions rise annually by either inflation, 2.5% or average wage growth, whichever is highest.

Inflation was 10.1% in the qualifying month of 2022/2023, meaning most state pensions will see a large increase. The pensions of British citizens living in countries such as Australia and Canada are frozen at the level they were at when they left the UK. However, 492,000 Britons overseas miss out on annual state pension rises. The pensions of those in countries such as Australia and Canada are frozen at the level they were at when they left the UK.

Dozens of MPs have now backed a campaign group's call to end the policy. On Monday, SNP MP Dave Doogan tweeted: "Half a million people have had their pensions frozen because they live in countries without an annual uprating agreement with the UK. "The UK government must end frozen pensions and ensure people get the uprated pensions they deserve." Campaign group End Frozen Pensions has written to the government to end the policy.

The group says: "We are writing to urge you to end the injustice felt by half a million British pensioners living overseas, excluded from annual state pension uprating by the UK government's frozen pensions policy simply because they live in the 'wrong' country." The campaign group pointed out that pensioners in countries with agreements, such as the US, do receive fully uprated pensions, but those in countries such as Australia, Canada and parts of the Caribbean, do not.

An estimated 48 Commonwealth countries are excluded, End Frozen Pensions said. The Canadian government has previously requested making a deal with the UK to solve the problem for some 127,000 British pensioners living there, but a resolution has not been found. End Frozen Pensions said: "This unfair postcode lottery has to stop - we believe that all UK pensioners deserve their full state pension no matter where they happen to live and urge you to end this longstanding injustice." Campaigners and pensioners staged a protest outside the department for work and pensions in London last week.

Caroline Abrahams, charity director at Age UK, said: “It seems very unfair that ex-pats who live in certain countries outside of the UK and EU miss out on having their state pension uprated each year. "Over time this means they can be deprived of tens of thousands of pounds that really should be theirs, leaving some in dire financial straits. It’s high time this long-standing injustice was remedied for every older UK citizen who chooses to live in another country in retirement. "Every one of these pensioners has already spent years paying into the system through National Insurance contributions or credits and deserves to receive the same income boost as everyone else, regardless of where they live.”

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesperson said: “We understand that people move abroad for many reasons and that this can impact on their finances. There is information on gov.uk about what the effect of going abroad will be on entitlement to the UK state pension. “The government’s policy on the uprating of the UK state pension for recipients living overseas is a longstanding one of more than 70 years and we continue to uprate state pensions overseas where there is a legal requirement to do so.” "

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/unfair-postcode-lottery-anger-over-500000-british-pensioners-missing-out-on-triple-lock-162441549.html

[nigelforbes]

There was never any will by government to end frozen pensions, even in a decent economy. Now that the country's finances are in a dire state, there is even less chance. And whilst my pension is also frozen, I do have some sympathy with government on this point. We were all told up front that our pensions would be frozen when we left, the choice was ours. It's a bit rich to complain after the fact, just because triple lock exists. But, if it's that big of a deal, why not go back to the UK for a couple of years and make the uplift permanent? I did that in 2018 after being away for 16 years, four months later I was regarded as UK resident.....I subsequently returned to live here once again.

[steve187]

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

There was never any will by government to end frozen pensions, even in a decent economy. Now that the country's finances are in a dire state, there is even less chance. And whilst my pension is also frozen, I do have some sympathy with government on this point. We were all told up front that our pensions would be frozen when we left, the choice was ours. It's a bit rich to complain after the fact, just because triple lock exists. But, if it's that big of a deal, why not go back to the UK for a couple of years and make the uplift permanent? I did that in 2018 after being away for 16 years, four months later I was regarded as UK resident.....I subsequently returned to live here once again.

when the UK left the EU, pension increases should have stopped for expats living there, but no somehow they the government managed to allow the increases to continue, so if it's a priority or high profile enough it can be done, i wonder how many people benefitted from that change in the rules to allow the uprating.

[nigelforbes]

Just now, steve187 said:

when the UK left the EU, pension increases should have stopped for expats living there, but no somehow they the government managed to allow the increases to continue, so if it's a priority or high profile enough it can be done, i wonder how many people benefitted from that change in the rules to allow the uprating.

I agree that seems almost unfair but I don't think it changes the picture I set out, we were told. The money needed to fund EU increases was already factored into budgets. The money needed to uprate expats everywhere else is new money that has never been budgeted.

[TorquayFan]

There's a point to be made re. the UK Govt's freezing our pensions - insofaras, although Expats here probably still pay income tax on income arising in the UK, we are not paying VAT and all the other taxes that UK pensioners are. But that's a point for them to make.

 

The freeze has a quite brutal effect on OAP's who have been away for a long time . . .

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by TorquayFan

[steve187]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

I agree that seems almost unfair but I don't think it changes the picture I set out, we were told. The money needed to fund EU increases was already factored into budgets. The money needed to uprate expats everywhere else is new money that has never been budgeted.

could only have been factored into budgets after the referendum, so not really old money, they seem to find new money for all the illegals entering the country.

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

could only have been factored into budgets after the referendum, so not really old money, they seem to find new money for all the illegals entering the country.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Government had always budgeted previously for that increase for EU expat pension uplift, continuing it after the referendum had no negative change on budgets, it was a case of maintaining the status quo, fiscally speaking.

[TorquayFan]

From Nigel Forbes - "" . . . . why not go back to the UK for a couple of years and make the uplift permanent? I did that in 2018 after being away for 16 years, four months later I was regarded as UK resident.....I subsequently returned to live here once again."'

 

When I came to Thailand first, I rang the 'Pensions' to tell them I didn't need the 'Winter Fuel Allowance' and thus informed, my OAP was frozen . . . it was one simple phone call and I was DONE!!

 

Perhaps when I next return to the UK I should make another simple phone call and tell them - "I'm back". Would my pension etc. then be fully uplifted after 10 years?

 

I wonder. I would surely be forced to abscond again shortly after, being unable to afford the shockingly high level of UK rents. Mmmmmm - so would my pension etc. be simply frozen again at 2023 level OR returned to the previous 2013 level?

 

Food for thought for next year . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by TorquayFan

[MartinL]

I'm sure I've read on some government website that pensions are uplifted to full UK rate if returning to UK permanently from a 'frozen' country - or going to live in an 'unfrozen ' country. If a pensioner subsequently goes to live in a 'frozen' country again, the pension returns to being frozen at the level when first leaving the UK. That is, the pension isn't frozen at the new, uplifted level.

Edited November 29, 2022 by MartinL

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, steve187 said:

when the UK left the EU, pension increases should have stopped for expats living there, but no somehow they the government managed to allow the increases to continue, so if it's a priority or high profile enough it can be done, i wonder how many people benefitted from that change in the rules to allow the uprating.

I reckon if anything happens it will be freezing pensions in EU as well inline with other countries.

[roo860]

Just keep an address in uk.

[soi3eddie]

The way things are looking the "freezing of pensions" is least to worry about. What if they decide that they will not pay new state pensions to anyone living overseas? Would not surprise me at all. Looks quite likely that state retirement ages are going to be raised again soon. From April 2028 the minimum age to start receiving private pension will increase to 58 (from 55).  They could even go as far as reducing state pension for those of us with private or company pensions.

 

[steve187]

7 hours ago, MartinL said:

I'm sure I've read on some government website that pensions are uplifted to full UK rate if returning to UK permanently from a 'frozen' country - or going to live in an 'unfrozen ' country. If a pensioner subsequently goes to live in a 'frozen' country again, the pension returns to being frozen at the level when first leaving the UK. That is, the pension isn't frozen at the new, uplifted level.

only if returning for a short holiday

[steve187]

3 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

The way things are looking the "freezing of pensions" is least to worry about. What if they decide that they will not pay new state pensions to anyone living overseas? Would not surprise me at all. Looks quite likely that state retirement ages are going to be raised again soon. From April 2028 the minimum age to start receiving private pension will increase to 58 (from 55).  They could even go as far as reducing state pension for those of us with private or company pensions.

 

misread as state pension instead of private pension, so deleted 

Edited November 29, 2022 by steve187
misread post

[JayClay]

16 minutes ago, steve187 said:

i think you have the wrong figures, do you mean 68 from 65, 

He was referring to private pension plans.

 

If that's true it's absolutely criminal that the government can impose suce a restriction; what does it even hope to achieve? Hopefully the next government will reverse that.

[soi3eddie]

23 minutes ago, steve187 said:

3 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

From April 2028 the minimum age to start receiving private pension will increase to 58 (from 55).  They could even go as far as reducing state pension for those of us with private or company pensions.

 

Expand  

i think you have the wrong figures, do you mean 68 from 65, 

No. Talking about age increase for "private pensions" already mandated. Currently private pension holders in UK can start claiming at 55. From 2028 the age to claim private pensions will be 58yrs. Not same as state pension.

[worgeordie]

Just reading about this on Yahoo ,and the comments by people living

in the UK are not very nice , we are not spending money in UK so why

should we get pension increase ,and a lot worse than that.

 

No way are the Government going to increase pensions for overseas

Expats if they don't have to, us living in Thailand , my UK state pension

is 90 quid a week , 360 quid a month ,it's a good job I worked hard and

provided for myself ,as you could not survive on 90 quid a week in Thailand

never mind the UK, 

 

Throughout the Covid lock down , my daughter worked ,necessary worker,

while others'  were getting a large % of their wages for doing nowt ,  I told

her when this is over they will be upping your taxes to pay for the money

that was handed out , and this is exactly what is going to happen , I  ask

her how many people are you carrying on your back now , immigrants,

dole scroungers , etc. 

 

Regards Worgeordie

[DezLez]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

only if returning for a short holiday

Do you know what the length of time to remain in the UK is before returning abroad to get updated to the current entitlement?

Or a simpler question is "how long is a short holiday"!

Anyone know the answers or preferably a UK GOV source!

 

PS;  I have not looked too hard yet myself!

[hotandsticky]

30 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Just reading about this on Yahoo ,and the comments by people living

in the UK are not very nice , we are not spending money in UK so why

should we get pension increase ,and a lot worse than that.

 

No way are the Government going to increase pensions for overseas

Expats if they don't have to, us living in Thailand , my UK state pension

is 90 quid a week , 360 quid a month ,it's a good job I worked hard and

provided for myself ,as you could not survive on 90 quid a week in Thailand

never mind the UK, 

 

Throughout the Covid lock down , my daughter worked ,necessary worker,

while others'  were getting a large % of their wages for doing nowt ,  I told

her when this is over they will be upping your taxes to pay for the money

that was handed out , and this is exactly what is going to happen , I  ask

her how many people are you carrying on your back now , immigrants,

dole scroungers , etc. 

 

Regards Worgeordie

 

 

You obviously didn't pay a full stamp.

 

 

You are right, there is no empathy in the UK for expats residing in Thailand. They ignore the fact that such ageing expats are not taking up doctor/hospital resources etc.

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, DezLez said:

Do you know what the length of time to remain in the UK is before returning abroad to get updated to the current entitlement?

Or a simpler question is "how long is a short holiday"!

Anyone know the answers or preferably a UK GOV source!

 

PS;  I have not looked too hard yet myself!

 

You are immediately entitled to the uplift and should contact DWP after arriving in the UK (they are not interested if you try and arrange it beforehand).

 

You only get the increase for the time you stay in the UK and your payment reverts to the old level when you advise them of your return.

 

 

Contact IPC for chapter and verse..... https://www.gov.uk/international-pension-centre

[worgeordie]

33 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

You obviously didn't pay a full stamp.

 

 

You are right, there is no empathy in the UK for expats residing in Thailand. They ignore the fact that such ageing expats are not taking up doctor/hospital resources etc.

Self employed all my working life , retired at 42 .

regards Worgeordie

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, worgeordie said:

Self employed all my working life , retired at 42 .

regards Worgeordie

 

 

Well done, 4 years after me ????.

 

My state pension is 160 Quid a week  (which wouldn't even get me a marriage extension).