Trump Organization found guilty on multiple counts of criminal tax fraud

[In Full Agreement]

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

The Trump organization lied about the professional qualifications of its instructors. Were a university to do that, they could also be sued. Your nonsense about university degrees being worthless in respect to gaining employment has nothing to do whether or not promises were fulfilled.

This Mother Jones deposition  video is very illuminating regarding Mr. Dump's  veracity

 

 

[candide]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:04 PM, Longwood50 said:

Do you recognize that often times companies pay settlements rather than go through protracted litigation. 

Also if paying a settlement makes the person guilty is Bill Clinton then guilty of sexual assault or did his "settlement" not mean the same as Trumps

Also if worthless degrees and fraudulent practices were pursued against all the nations colleges, those degrees in Gender Equity, Excercise Science, Creative Writing, Tourism, Creative Writing and Anthropology And Archeology  should also pay back their students for peddling degrees that students spent millions of dollars only to find out in the job market they were worthless. 

Again, you have a person "targeted" for lawsuits.  That is one way to punish your political opponent is to keep them constantly engaged in legal battles and of course congressional hearings. 

Lame false equivalency. That was not the reason for the lawsuit. Additionally, the Trump "University" was not accredited as a University, and its programs were also not accredited.

[Longwood50]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

A very poor attempt at diversion.

It was not diversion.  It was a response to a post that somehow was using the number of lawsuits against Trump as some sort of litmus test for guilt.  The fact is that the USA is a very litigious society.  Most companies will face hundreds to thousands of lawsuits each year.  All it takes is a $125 in New York to file a lawsuit.  The vast majority of lawsuits are baseless and dismissed so using a count of lawsuits as somehow indicative of guilt is false.  Also settlements are extremely common and again not indicative of guilt.  In a preponderous of instances companies find paying to settle is less costly than paying a settlement fee.  Unfortuntely that breeds the tendency to use lawsuits in the USA as a weapon hoping to extort a settlement out of a company knowing that is their mindset. 

 

[Longwood50]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Lame false equivalency. That was not the reason for the lawsuit. Additionally, the Trump "University" was not accredited as a University, and its programs were also not accredited

I never said they were accredited.  A huge number of educational programs were not accredited nor do they have to be. 

Does it make it any less fraudulent for an "accredited" university to peddle a degree in Gender Equities or Antropoligy knowing full well the degree is worthless in the job market. 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

No it is not.  The fact that Trump "organization" has had a lot of lawsuits is he is in business.  DUH.  You have Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer etc who have never owned or run a business.  Equating the number of lawsuits as somehow a litmus test of guilt is ridiculous.  There are 500 Trump companies operating for 30 years.  That is an average of 7 lawsuits for each company spanning 3 decades.  Again, this was in response to a post that tried to also point to the number of lawsuits as some sort of verdict that based on that number he must be guilty. 

 

Yours is a mala fire argument. Bad faith trying to deceive me in accepting that Trump’s criminal lawsuits are a norm in corporations and you given him a pass of his character. That’s bad denialism. He is now found guilty of multiple counts of tax frauds. He consistently indulged in criminal activities in the past, present and there are numerous cases that will result in charges soon. No other way to describe his character as criminally flawed. 

[candide]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

It is not uncommon for Universities to have a few "transversal" courses, usually optional, in order to allow students to explore other topics than the core ones, or as freshman seminar. 

On top of it, the content is far from being stupid, ex

Freshman seminar looks at clothing as a social force

https://pr.princeton.edu/pwb/01/1112/3a.shtml

 

A confirmed lame false equivalence....

[riclag]

3 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

These courses which cost students hundreds of dollars were from accredited institutions.  Can you tell me exactly how these were any less fraudlent, taking money for whay you know is a worthless course. 

Pennsylvania college recently offered "Star Trek and Modern Man."

Indiana University - Star Trek and Religion

Siena College near Albany, N.Y -  "Star Trek and Religion." 
The Sociology Of Miley Cyrus: Race, Class, Gender, And Media - Skidmore College
What If Harry Potter Is Real? - Appalachian State
How To Win A Beauty Pageant - Oberlin College
Philosophy Of Phish - Oregon State
Belmont University - "This course will pursue ways of knowing through embracing [little ants, carrying a morsel of food across the table] what it means to be a distracted
The Phallus - Occidental College

Getting Dressed - Princeton University
How To Watch Television - Montclair State University
Sport For The Spectator "Develop an appreciation of sport as a spectacle, social event, recreational pursuit, business, and entertainment - Ohio State University
Zombies In Popular Media -Columbia

Invented Languages: Klingon And Beyond - University of Texas

The Art Of Walking - "Art of Walking asks students to stop focusing on constantly doing and concentrate more on simply experiencing - Center College

Stupidity - From the president to Beavis and Butthead - Occidental College
Arguing with Judge Judy - University of California
The Joy Of Garbage- Santa Clara University
Maple Syrup: The Real Thing - Alfred University
Cyberporn And Society- State University of New York - Buffalo

Now tell me Candide, these are all "accredited" just what those students got in return that was marketable for the hundreds of dollars they spent in tuition and books. 

Perhaps Trump University was not accredited but I suspect I would have got a better benefit from its studies than getting an "A" in the Joy of Garbage at Santa Clara University

No use my friend , no matter how many times you paint the picture that Trump and his family are innocent of wrong doing ,the left refuses to to acknowledge it was another loss in the ,we got him now narrative! Two entities were found to be libel and the prosecutors couldn’t find evidence that tied the family to knowing of the wrong doing.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-organization-entities-found-guilty-all-counts-tax-fraud

[riclag]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

No use my friend , no matter how many times you paint the picture that Trump and his family are innocent of wrong doing ,the left refuses to to acknowledge it was another loss in the ,we got him now narrative! Two entities were found to be libel and the prosecutors couldn’t find evidence that tied the family to knowing of the wrong doing.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-organization-entities-found-guilty-all-counts-tax-fraud

Same ole laughing emoji trollers !

You can set a example going forward by discontinuing the child like trolling laugh emoji! 

 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

No use my friend , no matter how many times you paint the picture that Trump and his family are innocent of wrong doing ,the left refuses to to acknowledge it was another loss in the ,we got him now narrative! Two entities were found to be libel and the prosecutors couldn’t find evidence that tied the family to knowing of the wrong doing.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-organization-entities-found-guilty-all-counts-tax-fraud

I don't understand why you linked to the fox business article. There's nothing in there to support your claims. Maybe because you assumed that Fox would always come to Trump's rescue?

First off, this wasn't a trial of Trump or any other people. It was a trial of his organization. And that organization was found guilty on all 17 counts! 17 counts. That's a lot of guilt.

And as for the notion that this represents a win for Trump is patently ridiculous. 

It's a powerful piece of evidence against Trump in upcoming trials. He ran a criminal enterprise.

And it will be devastating for his business. His brand is further tarnished. Insurance companies and banks are going to be very reluctant to do business with a criminal enterprise. 

 

Here's the fallout the Trump Org. conviction could wreak
The verdict should spell trouble for Trump's businesses and weaken his position in other legal battles.

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/12/09/trump-organization-conviction-legal-00073141

 

[billd766]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

Why did you cut my entire comment out ,and leave that for everyone to assume thats  my entire response!

 

“No use my friend , no matter how many times you paint the picture that Trump and his family are innocent of wrong doing ,the left refuses to to acknowledge it was another loss in the ,we got him now narrative! Two entities were found to be libel and the prosecutors couldn’t find evidence that tied the family to knowing of the wrong doing”

But Trump and his family were not actually on trial.

 

The Trump organisation was and was found guilty on 17 counts.

 

I have no idea of your thoughts but where I come from and was brought up, someone has to take the responsibility. 

 

The buck stops at the top and the top person of that organisation is Donald Trump.

 

I can understand the possibility  of one person in one company getting away with it for a while, but that is what accountants and their system is all about.

 

But 17 different counts means that however was running it was either complicit or should not have been running the organisation.

 

Take your pick.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But Trump and his family were not actually on trial.

 

The Trump organisation was and was found guilty on 17 counts.

 

I have no idea of your thoughts but where I come from and was brought up, someone has to take the responsibility. 

 

The buck stops at the top and the top person of that organisation is Donald Trump.

 

I can understand the possibility  of one person in one company getting away with it for a while, but that is what accountants and their system is all about.

 

But 17 different counts means that however was running it was either complicit or should not have been running the organisation.

 

Take your pick.

As the prosecution noted, the Trump Organization continued to pay Weisselberg his full salary and bonuses even after he pleaded guilty. What's more, no one in the organization publicly said a word against him. Rather he was praised.

[ozimoron]

The statute of limitations on personal criminal tax fraud will likely save trump from personal prosecution but the state of NY could still go after him with a civil suit for tax fraud.

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2018/10/03/new-york-trump-tax-fraud/1509204002/

[Scott]

Off-topic post with no substantiating link removed along with replies.

[Longwood50]

On 12/11/2022 at 6:35 PM, riclag said:

No use my friend , no matter how many times you paint the picture that Trump and his family are innocent of wrong doing ,the left refuses to to acknowledge it was another loss in the ,we got him now narrative

Perhaps Trump has done some things that under the 'LETTER" of the law might be construed as not legal.  However what you have is an establishment that is bent on targeting him with every possible charge knowing that even if proven false, the constant lawsuits and negative press will tarnish his image in the eyes of some. 

 

Trump University was also "investigated" in Florida and Texas and by Greg Abbot who is now Governor but at the time Attorney General.  Both states did not file suit but of course Ultra Liberal New York attorney general and biased Letitia James did .  Note she is a Democrat 

Her first 100 days in office were a war against Trump

So was Trump University worthwhile.  Perhaps not.  But did she start suit against Cornell that offers a course in Tree Climbing. or Skidmore College in New York who offers a course in "the sociolgy of Miley Cyrus" 

How about Stoneybrook University, University of Albany, University at Buffalo, The New School, The city University of New York, who all offer DEGREES in Women's Gender Studies and Sexuality Studies.  THESE COST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. 

 

Now are the programs "accredited" and do they come with a degree, Yes.  Does that make them any more valuable than Trump's courses in  real estate, asset management, entrepreneurship, and wealth creation. 

The fact is that whether you are "defrauded" by an accredited instutution and you get a "degree" that is worthless is that any less of a fraud. 
|
If the CRITERIA for suing is that an entity is offering  students, worthess courses and degrees and  charging them thousands of dollars THEN EVERY COLLEGE FOR THE MOST PART SHOULD BE SUED

Virtually every college in the USA offers course work with no meaningful value, or even degrees in programs the colleges have full knowledge are without worth in the job market.  They are offering those courses and degrees strictly to gain tuition, from vulnerable exploited groups who believe somehow since their education is coming from an accredited college it must have worth.  

A huge portion of our student debt problem stems from the fact that these instutions are experts at getting students federal student loans for degrees that will never provide jobs that pay enough to pay back the tens, if not hundreds of thousands in tuition dollars borrowed. 
 

In summary at least Trump attempted to offer something that "may" have value in the job market.  The course at prestigious Rice that reads This course will provide students with a fundamental education of who Superman is and his relative importance in global history and culture certainly knows that employers will not be seeking out job applicants with an expertise in Superman.  The fact the course earns credit towards their degree is no reason for charging money for something worthless. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/10/politics/letitia-tish-james-new-york-attorney-general-trump/index.html

Edited December 14, 2022 by Longwood50

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Perhaps Trump has done some things that under the 'LETTER" of the law might be construed as not legal.  However what you have is an establishment that is bent on targeting him with every possible charge knowing that even if proven false, the constant lawsuits and negative press will tarnish his image in the eyes of some. 

 

Trump University was also "investigated" in Florida and Texas and by Greg Abbot who is now Governor but at the time Attorney General.  Both states did not file suit but of course Ultra Liberal New York attorney general and biased Letitia James did .  Note she is a Democrat 

Her first 100 days in office were a war against Trump

So was Trump University worthwhile.  Perhaps not.  But did she start suit against Cornell that offers a course in Tree Climbing. or Skidmore College in New York who offers a course in "the sociolgy of Miley Cyrus" 

How about Stoneybrook University, University of Albany, University at Buffalo, The New School, The city University of New York, who all offer DEGREES in Women's Gender Studies and Sexuality Studies.  THESE COST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. 

 

Now are the programs "accredited" and do they come with a degree, Yes.  Does that make them any more valuable than Trump's courses in  real estate, asset management, entrepreneurship, and wealth creation. 

The fact is that whether you are "defrauded" by an accredited instutution and you get a "degree" that is worthless is that any less of a fraud. 
|
If the CRITERIA for suing is that an entity is offering  students, worthess courses and degrees and  charging them thousands of dollars THEN EVERY COLLEGE FOR THE MOST PART SHOULD BE SUED

Virtually every college in the USA offers course work with no meaningful value, or even degrees in programs the colleges have full knowledge are without worth in the job market.  They are offering those courses and degrees strictly to gain tuition, from vulnerable exploited groups who believe somehow since their education is coming from an accredited college it must have worth.  

A huge portion of our student debt problem stems from the fact that these instutions are experts at getting students federal student loans for degrees that will never provide jobs that pay enough to pay back the tens, if not hundreds of thousands in tuition dollars borrowed. 
 

In summary at least Trump attempted to offer something that "may" have value in the job market.  The course at prestigious Rice that reads This course will provide students with a fundamental education of who Superman is and his relative importance in global history and culture certainly knows that employers will not be seeking out job applicants with an expertise in Superman.  The fact the course earns credit towards their degree is no reason for charging money for something worthless. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/10/politics/letitia-tish-james-new-york-attorney-general-trump/index.html

Such nonsense. Trump  lied about his courses. Judgement of whether a course has worth has nothing to do with lying. Trump's courses were fraudulent.

As for James political party membership, how many states have non-partisan district attorneys? Maybe a few, but mostly not. So what's your point?

[candide]

21 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Perhaps Trump has done some things that under the 'LETTER" of the law might be construed as not legal.  However what you have is an establishment that is bent on targeting him with every possible charge knowing that even if proven false, the constant lawsuits and negative press will tarnish his image in the eyes of some. 

 

Trump University was also "investigated" in Florida and Texas and by Greg Abbot who is now Governor but at the time Attorney General.  Both states did not file suit but of course Ultra Liberal New York attorney general and biased Letitia James did .  Note she is a Democrat 

Her first 100 days in office were a war against Trump

So was Trump University worthwhile.  Perhaps not.  But did she start suit against Cornell that offers a course in Tree Climbing. or Skidmore College in New York who offers a course in "the sociolgy of Miley Cyrus" 

How about Stoneybrook University, University of Albany, University at Buffalo, The New School, The city University of New York, who all offer DEGREES in Women's Gender Studies and Sexuality Studies.  THESE COST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. 

 

Now are the programs "accredited" and do they come with a degree, Yes.  Does that make them any more valuable than Trump's courses in  real estate, asset management, entrepreneurship, and wealth creation. 

The fact is that whether you are "defrauded" by an accredited instutution and you get a "degree" that is worthless is that any less of a fraud. 
|
If the CRITERIA for suing is that an entity is offering  students, worthess courses and degrees and  charging them thousands of dollars THEN EVERY COLLEGE FOR THE MOST PART SHOULD BE SUED

Virtually every college in the USA offers course work with no meaningful value, or even degrees in programs the colleges have full knowledge are without worth in the job market.  They are offering those courses and degrees strictly to gain tuition, from vulnerable exploited groups who believe somehow since their education is coming from an accredited college it must have worth.  

A huge portion of our student debt problem stems from the fact that these instutions are experts at getting students federal student loans for degrees that will never provide jobs that pay enough to pay back the tens, if not hundreds of thousands in tuition dollars borrowed. 
 

In summary at least Trump attempted to offer something that "may" have value in the job market.  The course at prestigious Rice that reads This course will provide students with a fundamental education of who Superman is and his relative importance in global history and culture certainly knows that employers will not be seeking out job applicants with an expertise in Superman.  The fact the course earns credit towards their degree is no reason for charging money for something worthless. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/10/politics/letitia-tish-james-new-york-attorney-general-trump/index.html

You can post it over and over, it remains a lame false equivalence.

[metisdead]

A post that had the quoted content altered and a reply has been removed:

 

28. You will not make changes to messages quoted from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. Do not shorten any post in a way that alters the context of the original post. Do not change the formatting of the post you are quoting.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Such nonsense. Trump  lied about his courses. Judgement of whether a course has worth has nothing to do with lying. Trump's courses were fraudulent.

As for James political party membership, how many states have non-partisan district attorneys? Maybe a few, but mostly not. So what's your point?

I don't think it's all nonsense. For the first time a Trump supporter has admitted Trump may have acted illegally.

[ozimoron]

Jurors 'hated' Trump Organization's 'stupid' defense in tax fraud trial

 

“Everyone hated ‘Weisselberg did it for Weisselberg,'" the juror said. "We found it demeaning. How stupid do you think we are?

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-organization-tax-fraud-trial-2658962400/

[Bkk Brian]

Nothing misleading about the title

Trump Organization found guilty on multiple counts of criminal tax fraud

Edited December 15, 2022 by Scott

[billd766]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

You won't convince him. He truly believes that Trump can do, and has done nothing wrong in his entire life.

 

No matter what evidence is put before him by the courts, by posters with truthful links etc, he will not and cannot accept it.

 

I put him on ignore weeks ago and I only see his posts through other posters, and I only read them for the laughter factor.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Scott

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  The topic title has NOT been changed.  

 

[Longwood50]

On 12/14/2022 at 2:52 PM, candide said:

You can post it over and over, it remains a lame false equivalence.

Ok candide.  you go to college and pay over the course of 4 years $100,000 for a degree in Gender Equity Studies or Excercise Science.  The accredited institution is offering them so 'THEY MUST BE WORTHWHILE" 

You then graduate with this degree and go into the job market and find, no they are 'WORTHLESS"  

Tell me you believe that WAS NOT FRAUD. They paid for something on the belief it was worth something when in fact those offering in had full knowledge it had no value in the job market. 
 

Tell me why they are not prosecuted but only Trump University.

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Ok candide.  you go to college and pay over the course of 4 years $100,000 for a degree in Gender Equity Studies or Excercise Science.  The accredited institution is offering them so 'THEY MUST BE WORTHWHILE" 

You then graduate with this degree and go into the job market and find, no they are 'WORTHLESS"  

Tell me you believe that WAS NOT FRAUD. They paid for something on the belief it was worth something when in fact those offering in had full knowledge it had no value in the job market. 
 

Tell me why they are not prosecuted but only Trump University.

 

Full degree accreditation, travel anywhere in the world or stay in the US in one of these careers below.

 

Careers in gender studies

https://www.uvic.ca/humanities/gender/future/careers/index.php

 

EXERCISE SCIENCE DEGREE CAREERS, JOBS, AND SALARIES

https://www.calu.edu/academics/graduate/masters/exercise-science/exercise-science-careers-jobs-salaries.aspx

 

Or you could pay up to $35,000 for a 3 day seminar at Trump University and end up having to sue to get your money back because they were worthless?

 

mmmmmmmmmm

[candide]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Ok candide.  you go to college and pay over the course of 4 years $100,000 for a degree in Gender Equity Studies or Excercise Science.  The accredited institution is offering them so 'THEY MUST BE WORTHWHILE" 

You then graduate with this degree and go into the job market and find, no they are 'WORTHLESS"  

Tell me you believe that WAS NOT FRAUD. They paid for something on the belief it was worth something when in fact those offering in had full knowledge it had no value in the job market. 
 

Tell me why they are not prosecuted but only Trump University.

 

It's been explained to you many times. 

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Ok candide.  you go to college and pay over the course of 4 years $100,000 for a degree in Gender Equity Studies or Excercise Science.  The accredited institution is offering them so 'THEY MUST BE WORTHWHILE" 

You then graduate with this degree and go into the job market and find, no they are 'WORTHLESS"  

Tell me you believe that WAS NOT FRAUD. They paid for something on the belief it was worth something when in fact those offering in had full knowledge it had no value in the job market. 
 

Tell me why they are not prosecuted but only Trump University.

 

Are these universities promising an education that will get them a job? Are they lying about the academic qualifications their teachers hold to teach those courses?

Trump University lied about the qualifications of his teachers.

Trump university claimed it offered "graduate course, post graduate courses, and doctorates"

Even calling itself a University was a violation of New York law

It engaged in bait and switch schemes

It's claim that the curriculum was developed by Trump was false, It was developed by a third party motivational instruction company

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/trump-university-its-worse-than-you-think

 

 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are these universities promising an education that will get them a job? Are they lying about the academic qualifications their teachers hold to teach those courses?

Trump University lied about the qualifications of his teachers.

Trump university claimed it offered "graduate course, post graduate courses, and doctorates"

Even calling itself a University was a violation of New York law

It engaged in bait and switch schemes

It's claim that the curriculum was developed by Trump was false, It was developed by a third party motivational instruction company

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/trump-university-its-worse-than-you-think

I wonder how he got away with it for so long. He wouldn't even get the doors open if it was in my country.

[heybruce]

20 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Ok candide.  you go to college and pay over the course of 4 years $100,000 for a degree in Gender Equity Studies or Excercise Science.  The accredited institution is offering them so 'THEY MUST BE WORTHWHILE" 

You then graduate with this degree and go into the job market and find, no they are 'WORTHLESS"  

Tell me you believe that WAS NOT FRAUD. They paid for something on the belief it was worth something when in fact those offering in had full knowledge it had no value in the job market. 
 

Tell me why they are not prosecuted but only Trump University.

 

If the university promised that an unwanted degree would lead to a high paying job it might be fraud.  Do any universities give that promise?

 

If no promises were given, then it is no more fraud than if you go to a store and buy something you don't use.

[ozimoron]

Trump encourages supporters to dismiss news about his taxes

 

All presidents in modern history have revealed their taxes to voters to demonstrate transparency.

 

Now that the former president has lost almost all of his appeals and his attempt at a "stay," the information is being sent to the House committee. It's unclear how swiftly the documents will be leaked, but Trump believes that they'll be publicly posted.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-says-ignore-taxes/

[candide]

59 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Trump encourages supporters to dismiss news about his taxes

 

All presidents in modern history have revealed their taxes to voters to demonstrate transparency.

 

Now that the former president has lost almost all of his appeals and his attempt at a "stay," the information is being sent to the House committee. It's unclear how swiftly the documents will be leaked, but Trump believes that they'll be publicly posted.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-says-ignore-taxes/

I hope so! I'm ready for a good laugh.