DeSantis calls for Florida grand jury to investigate coronavirus vaccine 'wrongdoing'

[edwardandtubs]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Yes, he said that there are 70 days of protection from infection. Which is not what you claimed. You claimed that the covid vaccine was ineffective after 70 days. Unfortunately, the mods deleted the post containing that falsehood, or I would quoted it here.

I'm not sure I used that exact language but can you really not debate this issue without throwing around language like "falsehood"? It all turns on how your interpret "ineffective" and has nothing to do with falsehoods. Let's take as an example a healthy 25 year old who has had two doses of an mrna vaccine and subsequently got an asymptomatic omicron infection. They now have very high protection from infection for at least 6 months and their chances of developing serious disease are now extremly low. So in what sense would a booster be "effective" for that individual?

[PremiumLane]

On 12/14/2022 at 7:30 AM, EVENKEEL said:

The next POTUS. Common sense still prevails.

"common sense" just code for I don't know what i am talking about 

[edwardandtubs]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

Feel free to post seroprevalence data that shows only 99 million people have had covid in the US. It's not a credible claim.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#nationwide-blood-donor-seroprevalence-2022

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, edwardandtubs said:

Feel free to post seroprevalence data that shows only 99 million people have had covid in the US. It's not a credible claim.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#nationwide-blood-donor-seroprevalence-2022

022 Nationwide COVID-19 Infection- and Vaccination-Induced Antibody Seroprevalence

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, dotcalm said:

Show the proof that vaccines saved more lives than they took!

LOL...maga personified or at least one of the conspiracy theory tin foil brigade positions

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext

[edwardandtubs]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

022 Nationwide COVID-19 Infection- and Vaccination-Induced Antibody Seroprevalence

Look at the dropdown menus, old boy. Infection-induced seroprevalence is an option.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Yours is an early study based on preliminary data.  For something more current:

 

"Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 657 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through December 7, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 17,868 preliminary reports of death (0.0027%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

Keep in mind that the 0.0027% death reports (death reported but not necessarily caused by the vaccination) represent about 3 deaths per 100,000 people vaccinated.  The death rate from Covid infections is over 1% (one million dead and 99 million infections).  https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

 

Nothing in life is without risk, however since you are more than 300 time more likely to die from a Covid infection than from the vaccination, vaccinations are clearly the smart choice.

 

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

Seroprevalence data shows a lot more than 99 million infections in the US and the recorded deaths are mostly among people with comorbidities. 

 

But it's not just deaths that need to be investigated. I'd rather not be hospitalized with myocarditis as a result of a booster that has not been shown to have any benefits for people in my age group or health status.

 

19 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Not speculation, I just thought you had the ability to research the numbers for yourself but clearly not so here they are:

 

'By November 9, 2022, 94% (95% CrI, 79%-99%) of the US population were estimated to have been infected by SARS-CoV-2 at least once.'

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.19.22282525v3

How do any of your deflections change the fact that real world data show that the risk of going unvaccinated greatly outweighs the risk of vaccination?

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, edwardandtubs said:

Look at the dropdown menus, old boy. Infection-induced seroprevalence is an option.

I did dad

 

64.8 from Vaccination. 24.2 from infection

Total 92.2

 

 

 

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, dotcalm said:

There’s a remarkable concession appearing in The Washington Post:

“a majority of Americans dying from the coronavirus received at least the primary series of the vaccine.”

The latest data shows that 58% of COVID-19 deaths in August 2022 were from people who were vaccinated or boosted. Based on past figures and the current trends, we can reasonably estimate that the number of vaccinated/boosted COVID-19 deaths will only rise. (In September 2021, the vaccinated accounted for 23% of COVID-19 deaths; in January/February 2022, the vaccinated were 42%.)

This is what happens when you rush ineffective and dangerous vaccines. 

And there is a good explanation for that: the share of vaccinated people.

- 80% of population is vaccinated, 58% of deaths, ratio 0.725

- 20% not vaccinated, 42% of deaths, ratio 2.1

So the death ratio is 3 times lower for vaccinated people. Capicce?

 

Not to mention that people with comorbidities and old people, which are most at risk, are usually vaccinated.

 

[edwardandtubs]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I did dad

 

64.8 from Vaccination. 24.2 from infection

Total 92.2

 

 

 

 

Try again, son. For a start you're looking at data from February and you've also completely misinterpreted what you're looking at. "Reported COVID-19 cases" is completely different from infection-induced seroprevalence.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, edwardandtubs said:

Try again, son. For a start you're looking at data from February and you've also completely misinterpreted what you're looking at. "Reported COVID-19 cases" is completely different from infection-induced seroprevalence.

I've no need to try again, your making a claim that over 90% have been infected, prove it

[CharlieKo]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense. Number of excess deaths proves vaccines saved.

How do you work that one out?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, CharlieKo said:

How do you work that one out?

Not obvious? Clearly the number of excess deaths dropped after the vaccines were introduced.

[alex8912]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

A grand jury is your idea of a chit-chat? The rest of what you post is utterly irrelevant.

Big deal. Isn't it Florida court? That's what I read. You post a lot of irrelevant things everyday.. 

[alex8912]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

In summary:

 

DeSantis is misusing Florida taxpayer money to get attention for himself from outside Florida.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

Great. Most people don't care about that at all. Thanks. Far more $$ for ridiculous things being spent now as well. Not just Florida. 

[Rimmer]

A personal attack has been removed

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

I'm not sure I used that exact language but can you really not debate this issue without throwing around language like "falsehood"? It all turns on how your interpret "ineffective" and has nothing to do with falsehoods. Let's take as an example a healthy 25 year old who has had two doses of an mrna vaccine and subsequently got an asymptomatic omicron infection. They now have very high protection from infection for at least 6 months and their chances of developing serious disease are now extremely low. So in what sense would a booster be "effective" for that individual?

You asked a rhetorical question. Namely. why should you take a vaccine that is ineffective after 70 days.  Claiming without qualification that it is ineffective after 70 days is a falsehood. As for people who come down with subsequent infections. How can that be accounted for in a public health system? 

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Big deal. Isn't it Florida court? That's what I read. You post a lot of irrelevant things everyday.. 

Yes. It is a Florida court. So not chitchat. But if Governor DeSantis thinks court is an appropriate venue for those who spread vaccine misinformation, then he should start with his own surgeon general.

[edwardandtubs]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You asked a rhetorical question. Namely. why should you take a vaccine that is ineffective after 70 days.  Claiming without qualification that it is ineffective after 70 days is a falsehood. As for people who come down with subsequent infections. How can that be accounted for in a public health system? 

It is very clear even from your summary of what I said that I was talking about something that would be ineffective FOR ME, not every single person on the planet. So your claim that I made a claim "without qualification" is the falsehood.

 

Please clarify your subsequent question. What do you mean "how can that be accounted for?"

[pomchop]

Wow. Just Wow.

 

It is truly amazing to me that there are obviously people that actually believe that the covid vaccines in their mind were not effective in preventing more serious cases and deaths.  How far down the rabbit hole do MAGA's have to go on the deep web to find some obscure half baked conspiracy theory to support such a ridiculous claim.  How about you ask the doctors and nurses who actually had to treat and deal with the people who showed up in hospitals with covid on death's doorstep if most of these were UNVAXXED?  Does anyone seriously believe that the unvaxxed did not get sicker and die at a greater rate of covid than those that were fully vaxxed and boosted?

 

WOW.  How many of these people still believe that the election was stolen also?  Evidence?  We got no evidence just a lot of theories.

[ozimoron]

Just now, pomchop said:

Wow. Just Wow.

 

It is truly amazing to me that there are obviously people that actually believe that the covid vaccines in their mind were not effective in preventing more serious cases and deaths.  How far down the rabbit hole do MAGA's have to go on the deep web to find some obscure half baked conspiracy theory to support such a ridiculous claim.  How about you ask the doctors and nurses who actually had to treat and deal with the people who showed up in hospitals with covid on death's doorstep if most of these were UNVAXXED?  Does anyone seriously believe that the unvaxxed did not get sicker and die at a greater rate of covid than those that were fully vaxxed and boosted?

 

WOW.  How many of these people still believe that the election was stolen also?  Evidence?  We got no evidence just a lot of theories.

Dear Leader said it was hoax (going to nothing by Easter) so forever it shall remain thus.

[edwardandtubs]

48 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I've no need to try again, your making a claim that over 90% have been infected, prove it

I posted the preprint but you rightly said it has yet to be peer reviewed, so let's use our own critical faculties to assess whether the 90%+ claim is true.

 

Here is a peer reviewed study that shows infection-induced seroprevalence was 58% in February 2022:

Quote

Analyses of 1,469,792 serum specimens revealed U.S. infection-induced SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence increased from 8.0% (95% confidence interval (CI): 7.9%–8.1%) in November 2020 to 58.2% (CI: 57.4%–58.9%) in February 2022.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(22)00220-4/fulltext

 

Notice, we're talking here about infection-induced seroprevalence, not vaccine-induced.

 

So we know it increased from 8% to 58% from November 2020 to February 2022. Using our own critical faculties, can we not say that the preprint showing it subsequently increased to over 90 after several more waves of omicron is likely to be accurate?

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.19.22282525v3

 

In any case, the claim that only 99 million Americans have had covid is obviously false as more than that had been infected even in February 2022.

Edited December 15, 2022 by edwardandtubs

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

I posted the preprint but you rightly said it has yet to be peer reviewed, so let's use our own critical faculties to assess whether the 90%+ claim was true.

 

Here is a peer reviewed study that shows

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(22)00220-4/fulltext

 

Notice, we're talking here about infection-induced seroprevalence, not vaccine-induced.

 

So we know it increased from 8% to 58% from November 2020 to February 2022. Using our own critical faculties, can we not say that the preprint showing it subsequently increased to over 90 after several more waves of omicron is likely to be accurate?

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.19.22282525v3

 

In any case, the claim that only 99 million Americans have had covid is obviously false as more than that had been infected even in February 2022.

The Lancet study shows 58% infection induced to Feb 2022 agreed.

 

The preprint you linked to shows data to to Nov 2022 however includes also vaccine induced immunity, you know the one you said I should remember about:

 

"Design, setting, participants: Bayesian evidence synthesis of reported COVID-19 data (diagnoses, hospitalizations), vaccinations, and waning patterns for vaccine- and infection-acquired immunity, using a mathematical model of COVID-19 natural history."

 

So its mute as well as not being peer reviewed

[dotcalm]

Heavily Jabbed and Boosted Australia is into its 5th Wave of Covid-19 Infections for 2022. The Government is not recommending 5th Doses. Woolworths Rolls Back Mandatory Jabs. Excess Deaths Continue!

 

Australia is a perfect case study on vaccine failure. Their case counts only soared once a majority of the population was jabbed. Now they have waves of infection concentrated in the multiply jabbed.

 

Australia had next to no Covid-19 cases through the first and up to the end of the second year of the pandemic. Their cases only exploded mid-December 2021 at which time their vaccine dosing had reached 156/100 population, or about 75% jabbed!

Now, very heavily jabbed Australia (242 doses / 100 population, 83.2% primary protocol, 54.5 booster doses/100 population) is now heading into its 5th Covid-19 Infection wave for 2022! Note that it is also highly unusual for Australia to be experiencing respiratory illnesses at this time of year as they head into their Southern Hemisphere summer. 

Don't much look like vaccines are saving lives, in fact the opposite is occurring.

 

Link 1-doses, ICU, deaths

 

Link 2 Death rates fax status

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Heavily Jabbed and Boosted Australia is into its 5th Wave of Covid-19 Infections for 2022. The Government is not recommending 5th Doses. Woolworths Rolls Back Mandatory Jabs. Excess Deaths Continue!

 

Australia is a perfect case study on vaccine failure. Their case counts only soared once a majority of the population was jabbed. Now they have waves of infection concentrated in the multiply jabbed.

 

Australia had next to no Covid-19 cases through the first and up to the end of the second year of the pandemic. Their cases only exploded mid-December 2021 at which time their vaccine dosing had reached 156/100 population, or about 75% jabbed!

Now, very heavily jabbed Australia (242 doses / 100 population, 83.2% primary protocol, 54.5 booster doses/100 population) is now heading into its 5th Covid-19 Infection wave for 2022! Note that it is also highly unusual for Australia to be experiencing respiratory illnesses at this time of year as they head into their Southern Hemisphere summer. 

Don't much look like vaccines are saving lives, in fact the opposite is occurring.

 

Link 1-doses, ICU, deaths

 

Link 2 Death rates fax status

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx

For the same period excess deaths tell a different story and show a huge decrease.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?time=2022-06-19..latest&country=~AUS

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Heavily Jabbed and Boosted Australia is into its 5th Wave of Covid-19 Infections for 2022. The Government is not recommending 5th Doses. Woolworths Rolls Back Mandatory Jabs. Excess Deaths Continue!

 

Australia is a perfect case study on vaccine failure. Their case counts only soared once a majority of the population was jabbed. Now they have waves of infection concentrated in the multiply jabbed.

 

Australia had next to no Covid-19 cases through the first and up to the end of the second year of the pandemic. Their cases only exploded mid-December 2021 at which time their vaccine dosing had reached 156/100 population, or about 75% jabbed!

Now, very heavily jabbed Australia (242 doses / 100 population, 83.2% primary protocol, 54.5 booster doses/100 population) is now heading into its 5th Covid-19 Infection wave for 2022! Note that it is also highly unusual for Australia to be experiencing respiratory illnesses at this time of year as they head into their Southern Hemisphere summer. 

Don't much look like vaccines are saving lives, in fact the opposite is occurring.

 

Link 1-doses, ICU, deaths

 

Link 2 Death rates fax status

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx

The single reason that Australia had no cases when there were no vaccines is that we weren't allowed in or out of the country and neither was anybody else. There were no cases because there was no virus.  The government botched the vaccine rollout, betting on the AZ vaccine exclusively and dropped the ball.

 

The fact remains that deaths would be higher but for the vaccine. That has been shown here on AN time and time again.

Edited December 15, 2022 by ozimoron

[pomchop]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The single reason that Australia had no cases when there were no vaccines is that we weren't allowed in or out of the country and neither was anybody else. There were no cases because there was no virus.  The government botched the vaccine rollout, betting on the AZ vaccine exclusively and dropped the ball.

 

The fact remains that deaths would be higher but for the vaccine. That has been shown here on AN time and time again.

Trying to convince a MAGA that vaccines reduced severity of illness and saved countless lives is like trying to convince a ..................................................fill in the blank.

[CharlieH]

Reported flame post removed.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

13 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

 

 

Australia is a perfect case study on vaccine failure. Their case counts only soared once a majority of the population was jabbed. Now they have waves of infection concentrated in the multiply jabbed.

 

Australia had next to no Covid-19 cases through the first and up to the end of the second year of the pandemic. Their cases only exploded mid-December 2021 at which time their vaccine dosing had reached 156/100 population, or about 75% jabbed!

 

 

You can't compare rates off covid before and after and say it's due to vaccines. Strict lockdowns eased in October 2021 in Melbourne and at different times in different cities and covid did take off in December 2021. Lockdowns were necessary before the vaccines were reasonably rolled out. The authorities knew cases would take off but the vaccines now meant the rates of serious illness and death would mean hospitals would not be overwhelmed. 

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The single reason that Australia had no cases when there were no vaccines is that we weren't allowed in or out of the country and neither was anybody else. There were no cases because there was no virus.  The government botched the vaccine rollout, betting on the AZ vaccine exclusively and dropped the ball.

 

The fact remains that deaths would be higher but for the vaccine. That has been shown here on AN time and time again.

 

3 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

You can't compare rates off covid before and after and say it's due to vaccines. Strict lockdowns eased in October 2021 in Melbourne and at different times in different cities and covid did take off in December 2021. Lockdowns were necessary before the vaccines were reasonably rolled out. The authorities knew cases would take off but the vaccines now meant the rates of serious illness and death would mean hospitals would not be overwhelmed. 

Both very true, trying to claim the spike in COVID cases after easing of the lockdowns shows a total lack of understanding and knowledge.