Why are all long-term visas called "Non-Immigrant"?

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

So the requirements are, indeed, not preposterous as you have stated, but rather completely insurmountable - for both me and also, I strongly suspect, many others on here (whether or not we like to call ourselves non-immigrants!).

Getting a job for 3 years is hardly insurmountable. 

What other country would allow a retired person to get citizenship?

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

It doesn't that's right but OP was right as he wrote "leading to". Now he would be be extremely naive if he expected other than utter reluctance, parochialism and preposterous requirements from the Thais once he submits his application for permanent residence or citizenship. 

A bit over the top...

Try for PR for Australia, just as difficult...

Edited December 23, 2022 by scorecard

[ThailandRyan]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Getting a job for 3 years is hardly insurmountable. 

What other country would allow a retired person to get citizenship?

Tell me how one over 60 gains employment here? I myself retired here but still ran a company in the US until Covid hit.  Trying to find anything here gas been met with, your to old, your over qualified etc....and no I do not wish to teach for a meager salary when I do not need the money.

[Boomer6969]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

A bit over the top...

Try for PR for Australia, just as difficult...

Total piece of cake, I did it. Got PR visa from my home country. Zero formalities on arrival,  a few years later we filled in a few forms, swore an oath of allegiance, they played Advance Australia fair (beautiful anthem) and we were Aussies. The icing on the cake was that the natives were totally charming and welcoming, amazing atmosphere at work, going to the Cricket (tough one) and the footy (a lot more easy).

 

Just want to add that I respect and love my country of adoption, and I could imagine myself respecting Thailand in its current state. Making an oath of allegiance would be just unacceptable.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Boomer6969

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Total piece of cake, I did it. Got PR visa from my home country. Zero formalities on arrival,  a few years later we filled in a few forms, swore an oath of allegiance, they played Advance Australia fair (beautiful anthem) and we were Aussies. The icing on the cake was that the natives were totally charming and welcoming, amazing atmosphere at work, going to the Cricket (tough one) and the footy (a lot more easy).

 

Just want to add that I respect and love my country of adoption, and I could imagine myself respecting Thailand in its current state. Making an oath of allegiance would be just unacceptable.

Good for you. I'm also aware of folks who have had a tough time to get to the point of step 1 of Aust. Permanent Residence, remebering that folks have to hold step 1 Aust PR for quite some time (in the case I'm well aware of 2 years) before it proceeds further and eventually getting to the ed of the process, and yes there's a typical pleasant ceremony most years broadcast on national TV.  

 

 

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

 

Btw, do Cambodians need a visa and work permit to work in Thailand?

 

Yes

 

Though there are many doing so illegally.

 

Because the visa and work permit process are difficult, time consuming and costly to go through

 

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, In the jungle said:

Thailand is not a signatory to the 1951 refugee convention.  That convention imposes conditions upon signatory states.  To take one example under the 1951 convention refugees cannot be charged money for such status in a host nation.

 

Thailand makes its own rules on refugees which, I suspect, are imprecise and inconsistently applied like many of their other immigration laws.

Thailand most emphatically did not sign that convention.

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Yes

 

Though there are many doing so illegally.

 

Because the visa and work permit process are difficult, time consuming and costly to go through

 

 

Same with the Myanmar workers.

[ChrisKC]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Some of those who are now stamped into Thailand with a LTR visa are considered to be Long term residents now, but make no mistake we are still non-immigrants and that allowed entry we have could be canceled anytime. It should be a LTTR, or Long Term Temporary Redident Visa. Yet I will take, it as I have, and use it to the best of my ability.

Correct - there are no Immigrants in Thailand - those who arrive at Immigration can only be considered as "potential" immigrants. An Immigrant is only that when already in the Country having been accepted as such. No refugees, no asylum seekers. Thailand wants to stay Thai!

 

Those of us who have been here for many years are not guests or visitors or tourists and not immigrants. I have been here for 20 years and married to a Thai. I live and do (most) of the things Thai people do and I think while not an official status, we are effectively residents on an annual basis and recurring as the "Immigration" laws stand currently.

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Having never truly worked in Thailand nor ever paid Taxes does indeed keep one from applying for Residency or even Citizenship. It is why those of us who have chosen to live out our lives here and have family gravitate towards certain types of Visas based upon our qualifications in meeting the requirements for that specific visa or extension thereof.....

 

[FriendlyFarang]

10 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

Correct - there are no Immigrants in Thailand

People with permanent residency status are immigrants.

[novacova]

1 hour ago, ChrisKC said:

Correct - there are no Immigrants in Thailand - those who arrive at Immigration can only be considered as "potential" immigrants. An Immigrant is only that when already in the Country having been accepted as such. No refugees, no asylum seekers. Thailand wants to stay Thai!

 

Maybe not so correct.

 

 I dated a Burmese immigrant who came here legally 22 years ago, no passport no identification and no family name, only a given name at birth which is common in the village where she is from. She came here on her own when she was a teenager, went to school and worked in a Chiangmai district. She is not a Thai citizen yet, though she is a permanent resident. She obtained a legal Thai first and family name. She then, recently was able to invite her siblings and they are here under the same terms as she, the most recent two years ago. She is essentially a refugee/asylum status, or whatever anyone wants to call it, though definitely an immigrant. 

 

Many views on this thread is through a westerners prism. There is much more to this story than most of us know.

Edited December 23, 2022 by novacova

[Photoguy21]

Because it is for a finite duration

[JoseThailand]

7 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

Interestingly, the Immigration Dept is a rather odd choice title given that no foreigner can be an immigrant, unless a doubtful wish to become a Thai citizen is successful. But even then, "immigrant" is not really what one is. 

Haha, you're right, it should be called "Non-Immigration". ????

[JoseThailand]

7 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

How on God's green Earth do you consider 12 months to be long term??? ????

The visa is truly long term, extendable indefinitely every 12 months. Unlike the tourist visa, which can be extended only once by 30 days.

Edited December 23, 2022 by JoseThailand

[orchidfan]

7 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Unless someone is a refugee, or seeking asylum for political reasons I am unaware of any nation that allows people to simply go there and attain permanent resident status or citizenship as a natural matter of course, simply because they gain access, reside in that nation for an extended period either by default or by simply making an application. ('possession being nine-tenths of the law' so to speak, and that simply being there invoked some power of influence on conditions of stay).

Such confirming of status-change is purely discretionary by the government of the day ... always, and rigidly enforced and made systemically difficult for reasons known to Immigration Departments all over the world.

 

I am also unaware of any nation I have visited that automatically designates visa status as anything other than a non-immigrant/visitor type status allowing one to residing at the discretion of the government of that nation for a finite period.

 

I know if no nation that bestows permanent residency or citizenship because you work or marry someone.

 

Go try and marry a foreigner as an Australian and watch the convoluted and painfully drawn-out process of being able to even have your wife or husband actually live in the country with you other than for temporary tourist visa, heavily regulated, AND I.O. checked during the period of stay (especially if you hail form a nation that is profiled as 'high-risk' for absconding or other nefarious actions once in-country), leaving aside permanent residency or citizenship pathways (this takes many many more years, sometimes decades).

Well, unless you fit into a very narrow and deliberately constructed criteria e.g. age, white/Caucasian (yes this is the actual reality - still), rich, able to invest considerable amounts of money into the nations economy, hold a skillset e.g. doctor, engineer, builder, plumber etc.

 

Somewhat incorrect. 

I (and my Thai wife) lived and worked....me, not her... In Hong Kong for 15 years.

After 7 years we could, and did, apply for PERMANENT HONG KONG RESIDENCE. (1 x A4 application form and 5 minutes interview )

 

Although we have a house and (me) yearly marriage extensions in northern Bangkok,  we are able to come and live/work forever in Hong Kong, enjoying the near free medical facilities and services etc.

 

No money in the bank required, or 90 day reports. 

No annual (or ever) visits to /from Immigration dep

 

So, there are SOME places where you can do it!!

[orchidfan]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Getting a job for 3 years is hardly insurmountable. 

What other country would allow a retired person to get citizenship?

Hong Kong...see my post

[FriendlyFarang]

33 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

The visa is truly long term, extendable indefinitely every 12 months. Unlike the tourist visa, which can be extended only once by 30 days.

In general there are two types of permissions to stay, covered in two different chapters in the law: https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

1: "Chapter 4: Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" includes tourist visas, non-immigrant visas, etc. all kinds of temporary permissions to stay, doesn't matter if it's 30 days, a year or five years, they are all temporary, making you a visitor, not an immigrant.

2: "Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom" this is permanent residency, and this would make you an immigrant.

[JoseThailand]

1 minute ago, orchidfan said:

Somewhat incorrect. 

I (and my Thai wife) lived and worked....me, not her... In Hong Kong for 15 years.

After 7 years we could, and did, apply for PERMANENT HONG KONG RESIDENCE. (1 x A4 application form and 5 minutes interview )

 

Although we have a house and (me) yearly marriage extensions in northern Bangkok,  we are able to come and live/work forever in Hong Kong, enjoying the near free medical facilities and services etc.

 

No money in the bank required, or 90 day reports. 

No annual (or ever) visits to /from Immigration dep

 

So, there are SOME places where you can do it!!

I agree, in lots of countries simply marrying a citizen is a easy way to citizenship. In most cases, they get permanent residence right away and after some years in the country obtain citizenship.

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

In general there are two types of permissions to stay, covered in two different chapters in the law: https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

1: "Chapter 4: Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" includes tourist visas, non-immigrant visas, etc. all kinds of temporary permissions to stay, doesn't matter if it's 30 days, a year or five years, they are all temporary, making you a visitor, not an immigrant.

2: "Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom" this is permanent residency, and this would make you an immigrant.

For that matter, even "permanent residency" is not really permanent and can be revoked if you leave the country and forget to get reentry permit.

[ChrisKC]

While we are on the subject of what an Immigrant is, notwithstanding those who believe Thai citizenship makes an immigrant, let us agree that there is no such thing as an "Immigrant visa" for Thailand.

[JeffersLos]

2 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

The visa is truly long term, extendable indefinitely every 12 months.

Incorrect.

 

The Extension of Temporary Stay (stamp) is extended, not the visa. ????

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

The visa is truly long term, extendable indefinitely every 12 months.  

Oh dear.

 

 

The message is just not getting through...................... a visa is 'used' the moment you enter Thailand; thereafter you are granted permission to stay - which is extendable.

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

Total piece of cake, I did it. Got PR visa from my home country. Zero formalities on arrival,  a few years later we filled in a few forms, swore an oath of allegiance, they played Advance Australia fair (beautiful anthem) and we were Aussies. The icing on the cake was that the natives were totally charming and welcoming, amazing atmosphere at work, going to the Cricket (tough one) and the footy (a lot more easy).

 

Just want to add that I respect and love my country of adoption, and I could imagine myself respecting Thailand in its current state. Making an oath of allegiance would be just unacceptable.

It was a piece of cake in the 1960s. As a boomer, maybe you didn't go until 70s, when it was still easy. Get with the times! 

I enquired around 1993, when I was 28 and although white, Master's degree in Material's Science, it was too much hassle for me. Maybe you are a tradesman and they wanted to put you down a mine?

 

How many years were you on a PR visa? You make it sound much simpler than it is.

 

You are off topic with your bashing. 

 

Married to a Thai, no language requirement -  does Australia have a language requirement? I know the UK does, and a test about British culture. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, orchidfan said:

Somewhat incorrect. 

I (and my Thai wife) lived and worked....me, not her... In Hong Kong for 15 years.

After 7 years we could, and did, apply for PERMANENT HONG KONG RESIDENCE. (1 x A4 application form and 5 minutes interview )

 

Although we have a house and (me) yearly marriage extensions in northern Bangkok,  we are able to come and live/work forever in Hong Kong, enjoying the near free medical facilities and services etc.

 

No money in the bank required, or 90 day reports. 

No annual (or ever) visits to /from Immigration dep

 

So, there are SOME places where you can do it!!

Was this when it was British?

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

2: "Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom" this is permanent residency, and this would make you an immigrant.

I could be wrong, but white expats are not called Immigrants. 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, novacova said:

She is essentially a refugee/asylum status, or whatever anyone wants to call it, though definitely an immigrant. 

Does she have a non-Thai pink ID card?

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Tell me how one over 60 gains employment here? I myself retired here but still ran a company in the US until Covid hit.  Trying to find anything here gas been met with, your to old, your over qualified etc....and no I do not wish to teach for a meager salary when I do not need the money.

You could start your own company. I know someone over 60 that did that. 

 

I never wanted to work for a meagre salary too, but I wanted to get citizenship. It was well worth it.

[Neeranam]

9 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

If one does something stupid Visas can be canceled or can they not?, same with those who have residency?

Can only be cancelled by an Immigration officer. It would have to be a criminal offense. 

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Can only be cancelled by an Immigration officer. It would have to be a criminal offense. 

Exactly, and would be a stupid action done by the visa holder that got the Visa canceled, say like buying a hand gun and bullets and then trying to fly somewhere....

[FriendlyFarang]

2 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

While we are on the subject of what an Immigrant is, notwithstanding those who believe Thai citizenship makes an immigrant, let us agree that there is no such thing as an "Immigrant visa" for Thailand.

Actually there is, see this immigration document: https://www.immigration.go.th/citizen_manual/guid_en1.pdf

It's related to permanent residency though.