Friend (US Citizen) in ICU, no savings or insurance - don't know what to do for the best

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, jimmiejackson said:

He isn’t on overstay but there is no money in the bank. 
 

He has no assets to speak of,  nothing that would be even worth taking the effort to sell. 
 

He made decisions that are very contrary to the way I do things but I don’t think that means I’m meant to abandon him in his darkest hour. 
 

Appreciate the help so far. 

Age ?

TB ... on a ventilator.  Guessing borrowed time.  Possibly very short or a tad longer.

 

IF me, send me home with bottle of oxygen, let me pass in piece, without causing additional burden to anyone.

[still kicking]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Age ?

TB ... on a ventilator.  Guessing borrowed time.  Possibly very short or a tad longer.

 

IF me, send me home with bottle of oxygen, let me pass in piece, without causing additional burden to anyone.

You know how much it cost?Thausands 

[d4dang]

transfer the patient to a gov't hospital asap...the bill will be much less. He will remain in ICU as TB requires, once cleared he can be treated in a ward until released or ? The bills from the private and gov't hospital are the responsibility of the patient/next of kin/or anyone who signs. That was my experience a few years ago/pre-covid. The private hospital helped organize the transfer when informed the patient had limited funds early in the crisis. 

[spidermike007]

The private hospitals here are good. But, they are for those of us who can afford them. Unless you are willing to part with your life savings, he needs to be transferred to a public hospital, ASAP. 

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

30,000 to 40,000 baht a day in the ICU? There must be something cheaper in Bangkok.

This is very cheap for being on a ventilator. 

It will get even cheaper (maybe half) because the first days in ICU are usually the most expensive ones.

Hospitals usually don't insist on daily payments,  they often let patients run up a very high bill. And once he really has to pay hospitals usually accept paying by installments. 

3 hours ago, internationalism said:

move to the nearest governmental hospital.

That's 10 minutes drive by ambulance with oxygen.

 

There is no good government hospital nearby. 

As he is on a ventilator he may need a ventilator on the trip.

A government hospital won't necessarily be much cheaper. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Lorry

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, proton said:

As a matter of interest how much would ICU be in a govt hospital a day in Bangkok?

For a tourist (all foreigners are tourist in their eyes): Not much less than 50,000.  Goverment hospitals charge foreigners 100,000 per day and more in Phuket. The government would like to see these prices everywhere. 

It depends a lot on whether he is on a ventilator and which hospital

 

[Lorry]

5 hours ago, jimmiejackson said:

Chula and the Chest Hospital where he was receiving treatment

These would be good choices,  indeed. 

But it won't be easy to get him there.  You won't be able to do it.

 

Ask Camillean to get him transferred there,  as reason tell them that his case is known there.  I would hesitate to talk about money. Chula probably won't be much cheaper than Camillean, but treatment will be better.  About prices at Chest Hospital I have no idea. 

 

What I said about hospitals not requiring daily payments is even more true at government hospitals. So even if they aren't cheaper, the problem will be postponed.

[dj230]

46 minutes ago, still kicking said:

You know how much it cost?Thausands 

what's one doing in Thailand without at least a few thousand dollars in their immediate funds, even credit cards typically have $10,000 on them, a months expenses is roughly $1000 on the low end 

Edited January 2, 2023 by dj230

[Lorry]

35 minutes ago, dj230 said:

what's one doing in Thailand without at least a few thousand dollars in their immediate funds, even credit cards typically have $10,000 on them, a months expenses is roughly $1000 on the low end 

Transport of a patient on a ventilator to the US costs a lot more than 10,000 USD.

On a commercial airliner,  maybe 40,000. If medevac is needed reckon 100,000 or more.

[Northstar1]

Very very selfish of the individual.

he knew he was sick, or at that age it’s inevitable, no funds? No backup plan?

it’s hard to believe that his family is that skint and not being able to help!

[TimeMachine]

Sorry, I have no advice to solve this problem this time, but I am a big advocate of choosing a time in the late future to exit this life at my choosing. Deciding the right age when I am still healthy I believe is key and difficult. There is no way I can rely on assistance from people when I get older. I have a plan because I know I won't live forever and an earlier preplanned death is my choice that works for me.  Not for everyone. My discussion here may bring some to plan ahead to help avoid such situations. I'm so sorry this has happened to you and your friend but the idea no solution exists for some terrifies me.

[scubascuba3]

Let the current hospital transfer him to a govt hospital.

 

Also don't get dragged into giving people money, they should have thought about this years ago

[HuskerDo2]

It's unfortunate that Nancy Lindley recently passed away as she helped many people in these types of situations. She would have been a great asset to your friend.

[steven100]

You need to minimize then stop the bleeding $$$.   So logically that means a much cheaper hospital until he can get on a flight back to the USA.

Who forks out the money and where from is a decision that has to be made,  and that should be by next of kin.  You can't work miracles if he has no money or assets.

[proton]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

For a tourist (all foreigners are tourist in their eyes): Not much less than 50,000.  Goverment hospitals charge foreigners 100,000 per day and more in Phuket. The government would like to see these prices everywhere. 

It depends a lot on whether he is on a ventilator and which hospital

 

Surely govt cannot be more than private, the cost now is 30-40k a day in a private hospital

[Thomas KH]

6 hours ago, dj230 said:

I mean 300k baht isn't much in terms of assets, a car is easily worth a million baht, even an iPhone is worth 20-30k, surely he has something he can sell or give you to sell 

 

you have to ask yourself if he's worth giving your money to, you clearly said you don't have anymore money, he had a health condition he knew about and didn't save up or get health insurance so in my opinion it's his fault. If it was a freak accident, thats another story.

 

I've given friends around 200k for medical bills, I didn't expect any of it back but they ended up doing favors for me. 

 

Yaysuz freaking christ, the assumptions you make. The man is in an ICU. Yeah right, he should walk around BKK with that oxygen tank while looking for a buyer for whatever assets you seem certain he possesses. 

 

 

[VinnieK]

7 hours ago, dj230 said:

I mean 300k baht isn't much in terms of assets, a car is easily worth a million baht, even an iPhone is worth 20-30k, surely he has something he can sell or give you to sell 

 

you have to ask yourself if he's worth giving your money to, you clearly said you don't have anymore money, he had a health condition he knew about and didn't save up or get health insurance so in my opinion it's his fault. If it was a freak accident, thats another story.

 

I've given friends around 200k for medical bills, I didn't expect any of it back but they ended up doing favors for me. 

Tryin to sell stuff in the second-hand market can be very time-consuming

Plus, the guy is in the ICU 

Get a grip.

Get him out the private hospital asap.

Tell them you are just a friend and the family is not  interested.

If they want to nurse him ,as a charity case, they are free to do so.

Once in govt hospital, leave him to the good graces of the authorities.

I'm sure the patient must have been aware that this is how the cookie would crumble some day..

 

 

 

 

 

[steven100]

3 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

If they want to nurse him ,as a charity case, they are free to do so

do you really think they will even consider this for a farang ?

[Salerno]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

do you really think they will even consider this for a farang ?

The part you quoted, if read in it's original context, answers your question.

[Scott]

A post containing false or misleading information has been removed.  Continue and face a suspension.

 

[nigelforbes]

6 hours ago, Lorry said:

For a tourist (all foreigners are tourist in their eyes): Not much less than 50,000.  Goverment hospitals charge foreigners 100,000 per day and more in Phuket. The government would like to see these prices everywhere. 

It depends a lot on whether he is on a ventilator and which hospital

 

This is untrue, not all foreigners are treated the same. The government published three separate scales of charges below. Note, this is for government hospitals, NOT private hospitals where charges are even more expensive:

 

"The new dispensation will allow Thai hospitals under the Ministry of Public Health to charge a prescribed limit for medical services based on a 3 tiered system approach. Operators and Thai hospitals will have to set the 3 tiers themselves and then submit to the Ministry of Public Health to finalize. These 3 tiers are explained below:

Tier 1

Under the new regulations, the first tier price structure is specific for Thai citizens and those from neighboring countries, such as Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Myanmar, will pay relatively the same for medical procedures.

Tier 2

The second tier price structure will be applied to expatriates, namely foreigners in Thailand, who are working and paying taxes with the appropriate visas.

Tier 3

The third tier of charges and the highest in terms fees will apply to retirees and tourists".

 

https://www.pacificprime.co.th/blog/dual-pricing-at-thai-public-hospitals-and-the-implications-on-foreigners/

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

Lots of untrue posts here... I am an expat from the USA and just spent 4 days in the Bangkok Hospital... total bill THB85,000... paid by my Thailand insurance company in full.

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, dj230 said:

he had a health condition he knew about and didn't save up or get health insurance so in my opinion it's his fault. If it was a freak accident, thats another story.

Would point out you can't get health insurance for health conditions you know about.

[steven100]

He should have had plan B in place and gone home when his funds were getting low.  If he didn't get the TB he could have jumped on a plane.

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, steven100 said:

He should have had plan B in place and gone home when his funds were getting low.  If he didn't get the TB he could have jumped on a plane.

Should have but didn't, hindsight is always 100%. I suspect many of us are in situations that are not that far removed from the one described in the OP, it's boiling frog syndrome in action. One day you look and you see you have X in the bank and you tell yourself all is OK because you feel fine. Then it becomes X-20% and you haven't been feeling great lately but you'll review again in 6 months. And so on. Eventually you resign yourself to passing in Thailand and that's OK with you if you fall down dead one day. But it doesn't work that way in practise, that's because the end may easily be death by a thousand cuts, slow and prolonged and expensive, especially given the Thai propensity for wanting to keep people alive at any cost.

 

If you don't have good health insurance and you don't have money in the bank, a living will and POA are essential basic, if you don't have them, you need them, asap.

 

[pomchop]

So what happens if OP just tells current hospital that he has no more $$.  Will the hospital throw the patient out onto the streets, call US embassy or ??

 

Very kind of OP to do what he has already done but seems that getting involved in moving to private hospital doesn't really solve the problem as even then more $$ required.

 

Maybe just tell current hospital sorry i have done all i can, his family has no $$, he has no money and OP has no $$.  Somehow I think/hope that the hospital will have to either keep him or move him but it has to be their decision and their cost.

[nigelforbes]

7 minutes ago, pomchop said:

So what happens if OP just tells current hospital that he has no more $$.  Will the hospital throw the patient out onto the streets, call US embassy or ??

 

Very kind of OP to do what he has already done but seems that getting involved in moving to private hospital doesn't really solve the problem as even then more $$ required.

 

Maybe just tell current hospital sorry i have done all i can, his family has no $$, he has no money and OP has no $$.  Somehow I think/hope that the hospital will have to either keep him or move him but it has to be their decision and their cost.

I suspect/guess that once the private hospital realises they wont be able to recoup their losses that he will be transferred to a government hospital. Any irrecoverable loss there will be written off by government, which will provide further ammunition for government to ensure all expats have medical insurance before issuing them with visa extensions. If that sounds harsh and unhelpful it is not intended to be so, I just want to point out the realities of the inevitable sequence of events.

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Should have but didn't, hindsight is always 100%. I suspect many of us are in situations that are not that far removed from the one described in the OP

NO ... he was irresponsible and selfish, knowing he didn't have the funds for TB treatment.  Should have been on the first available flight to USA when diagnosis, while still having the airfare. 

 

Now family & friends are suffering and burdened, when he could be sitting in a hospital at no cost to them actually getting treatment.   Probably avoiding the progression of the TB that required ICU and ventilator.   His previous tax dollars at work.

 

Immigration need to step up their game and require expats & tourist to have insurance or funds of at least 1 million baht.  I myself don't do health insurance, but have a nice oops fund that doesn't get touched, for any reason, except medical emergency.

 

Guessing he uses an agent for visa ... and why I'm against them unless just for convenience.  He has no money & no assets, so he certainly isn't bringing in 40k a month.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by KhunLA

[roo860]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

NO ... he was irresponsible and selfish, knowing he didn't have the funds for TB treatment.  Should have been on the first available flight to USA when diagnosis, while still having the airfare. 

 

Now family & friends are suffering and burdened, when he could be sitting in a hospital at no cost to them actually getting treatment.  His tax dollars at work.

 

Immigration need to step up their game and require expats & tourist to have insurance or funds of at least 1 million baht.  I myself don't do health insurance, but have a nice oops fund that doesn't get touched, for any reason, except medical emergency.

 

Guessing he uses an agent for visa ... and why I'm against them unless just for convenience.  He has no money & no assets, so he certainly isn't bringing in 40k a month.

 

 

Bloody hell, is it your 'time of the month'? ????

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

NO ... he was irresponsible and selfish, knowing he didn't have the funds for TB treatment.  Should have been on the first available flight to USA when diagnosis, while still having the airfare. 

 

Now family & friends are suffering and burdened, when he could be sitting in a hospital at no cost to them actually getting treatment.  His tax dollars at work.

 

Immigration need to step up their game and require expats & tourist to have insurance or funds of at least 1 million baht.  I myself don't do health insurance, but have a nice oops fund that doesn't get touched, for any reason, except medical emergency.

 

Guessing he uses an agent for visa ... and why I'm against them unless just for convenience.  He has no money & no assets, so he certainly isn't bringing in 40k a month.

 

 

I have CAD but my health insurance (CIGNA) specifically excludes coverage for anything heart related, I pay 125k per year for the insurance BTW.

 

I have a couple of million in cash but a major cardiac event could run to 5 mill., according to Sheryl previously. 

 

I use cash in bank for my visa and the cash is actually there and it's mine, even though I use an agent.

 

Should I head to the airport today or can I wait until next week!